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Topic: OT: Tattoo Gate
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cc-cat
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Posted: 3/9/2011 3:48 PM
Anyone defending Tressel because he is an upstanding guy protecting a player is living the life of George C.  "It's not a lie, if you believe it."  Tressel withheld info form the NCAA - will be punished by them big time.  I would not be surprised if he is suspended for the season - last season's wins are certainly going to be taken away.  He lied to the NCAA and then worked with them to accommodate the penalty of the players.  He is is deep.  And any University that would have the head coach take the fall instead of some administrator in the compliance office shows a deep vein of corruption.  I too am not a OSU fan, but this is driven by the knowledge that the NCAA knows cheating is going on.  They know they are weak.  so when you get caught arrogantly feeling you can get away, even when caught - they will come down hard. Can the players still turn pro? 
Mike Coleman
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Posted: 3/9/2011 3:58 PM
cc cat wrote:expand_more
Tressel withheld info form the NCAA - will be punished by them big time.  I would not be surprised if he is suspended for the season - last season's wins are certainly going to be taken away.  He lied to the NCAA and then worked with them to accommodate the penalty of the players. 


If so....

Sept. 18, 2010: Ohio 2, Ohio State 0

I guess that makes us the first MAC school ever with a win over OSU, huh?
Flomo-genized
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Posted: 3/9/2011 4:01 PM
In all seriousness, I seem to remember reading that when the NCAA takes wins away from a school after the fact, that rather than give the opponents an extra win, both schools are treated as having lost the game.  Is that right?
Mike Coleman
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Posted: 3/9/2011 4:03 PM
Sadly I think you're right Flomo. I think they used to do the 2-0 thing, but not anymore. Who knows, maybe we could petition. ;)
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 3/9/2011 4:12 PM
Mike Coleman wrote:expand_more
Tressel withheld info form the NCAA - will be punished by them big time.  I would not be surprised if he is suspended for the season - last season's wins are certainly going to be taken away.  He lied to the NCAA and then worked with them to accommodate the penalty of the players. 


If so....

Sept. 18, 2010: Ohio 2, Ohio State 0

I guess that makes us the first MAC school ever with a win over OSU, huh?


Correction, the score of a forfeited game is 1-0;  so, it would be Ohio 1 Ohio A&M 0.  At least that's what the NCAA rules said that last time I looked at them.  With the way things go today in the world sports, who knows.
Last Edited: 3/9/2011 4:21:10 PM by OhioCatFan
Mike Coleman
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Posted: 3/9/2011 4:29 PM
OCF...Technically I don't think it would be a forfeited game, but rather a vacated game.
Mike Coleman
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Posted: 3/9/2011 4:37 PM
Quote:expand_more
Now, the distinction between a vacated win and a forfeit is something of a metaphysical NCAA mystery. Alabama doesn't win games, but their opponent doesn't either. What a mess. Only an NCAA rule would even allow a vacated win category to exist. It's like the games never happened at all for one side? How does this make any sense at all? As a result every school will have a lopsided record book with Alabama, the opponent counts the loss on their books but Alabama can't count the win.


http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2009/06/11/in-internet-e.../
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 3/9/2011 6:12 PM
Well, Mike, this is one of the most cockamamie schemes I've ever heard of.  Back in the day, teams actually forfeited games when they used ineligible players or committed other verifiable transgressions.  Way back in 1967 Ohio was behind Oxford Tech in the MAC standings and toward the end of the season it was discovered the Kent State had used an ineligible player in its victory over Ohio.  The Bobcat's loss to KSU was changed to a win, and a score of 1-0 was entered in the record book.  As a result Ohio tied for the championship.  That evoked the now famous quote from Bo Schembechler, "They can play football in Athens until Hell freezes over and they still won't deserve the championship." (from memory but very close to the actual quote)  It seems to me if you've won a game and then irregularities are discovered that the fair thing to do is force a forfeit not this weird "vacate" thing.  Now in basketball in a tournament situation it's a little different.  In this situation if a team would forfeit a game, it would create havoc up and down the bracket that that team was in.  Therefore, to simply "vacate" a game in that context makes sense.  Otherwise, however, I agree with the writer:  it's a "metaphysical NCAA mystery."  Or, in more plain language, it's a little bit of incoherent thinking on the part of the NCAA warlords.  
Last Edited: 3/9/2011 6:23:13 PM by OhioCatFan
D.A.
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Posted: 3/9/2011 7:28 PM
I think the most important thing in the whole matter is that Tress doesn't think less of himself for what transpired.

That's a relief, now I can sleep tonight...

And how do you think Archie feels?  Remember when he was called in at the 11th hour after things became public, he hosts the players at his house to school them on honesty and integrity and the importance of putting the program ahead of themselves.  And then he finds out Coach knew in April.  Classic.
Last Edited: 3/9/2011 8:06:20 PM by D.A.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 3/10/2011 2:47 AM
I've just seen this thing from a glance-at-the-headlines view.  But it seems that columbus panicked when the yahoo story broke.  Apparently the press conf was called so quickly that they didn't have time to rehearse so as to at least APPEAR not to be in big violation.  They must've felt they had to respond fast, so didn't have time to come up with plausibility and words that at least sounded good.

They got a big stink and they stunk it up.
Robert Fox
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Posted: 3/10/2011 8:36 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Well, Mike, this is one of the most cockamamie schemes I've ever heard of.  Back in the day, teams actually forfeited games when they used ineligible players or committed other verifiable transgressions.  Way back in 1967 Ohio was behind Oxford Tech in the MAC standings and toward the end of the season it was discovered the Kent State had used an ineligible player in its victory over Ohio.  The Bobcat's loss to KSU was changed to a win, and a score of 1-0 was entered in the record book.  As a result Ohio tied for the championship.  That evoked the now famous quote from Bo Schembechler, "They can play football in Athens until Hell freezes over and they still won't deserve the championship." (from memory but very close to the actual quote)  It seems to me if you've won a game and then irregularities are discovered that the fair thing to do is force a forfeit not this weird "vacate" thing.  Now in basketball in a tournament situation it's a little different.  In this situation if a team would forfeit a game, it would create havoc up and down the bracket that that team was in.  Therefore, to simply "vacate" a game in that context makes sense.  Otherwise, however, I agree with the writer:  it's a "metaphysical NCAA mystery."  Or, in more plain language, it's a little bit of incoherent thinking on the part of the NCAA warlords.  


Surely you don't want last year's game with OSU recorded as a win? I have no problem with the game being "vacated" if that is the NCAA ruling. I don't want to hang my hat on "beating" the Buckeyes when it never really happened. That's the worst kind of charity, and nothing I could be proud of. I might feel differently if I thought the transgression DIRECTLY impacted the play on the field. But as I understand it, that is not the case in this situation. Admittedly, however, I am not following this story closely.
Mike Coleman
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Posted: 3/10/2011 9:00 AM
Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
. I might feel differently if I thought the transgression DIRECTLY impacted the play on the field. But as I understand it, that is not the case in this situation. Admittedly, however, I am not following this story closely.


An ineligible player accounted for every touchdown against Ohio last year.

Not saying we could have won, but these guys made major impacts for the Buckeyes last season.
Flomo-genized
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Posted: 3/10/2011 9:08 AM
This number really jumped out at me: OSU has committed 375 infractions, albeit mostly minor, over the last 10 years under Tressel's watch.

http://detnews.com/article/20110310/OPINION03/103100347/
Robert Fox
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Posted: 3/10/2011 10:10 AM
Mike Coleman wrote:expand_more
. I might feel differently if I thought the transgression DIRECTLY impacted the play on the field. But as I understand it, that is not the case in this situation. Admittedly, however, I am not following this story closely.


An ineligible player accounted for every touchdown against Ohio last year.

Not saying we could have won, but these guys made major impacts for the Buckeyes last season.



OK. I didn't know that.  

bobcatsquared
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Posted: 3/10/2011 10:25 AM
     Ohio would have still lost to an o$u. Arkansas, however, would have won the Sugar Bowl if the tattoo five had been ineligible like they should have been.
cc-cat
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Posted: 3/10/2011 5:39 PM
Ohio State University - Columbus continues to embarrass themselves and take arrogant approach to this situation/  Now they are saying they were really going to bring the hammer down and keep Tressel out of Spring Practice - oh my!! The players I knew in college said Spring Practice was for time with your position coach.  But then they were QBs.
D.A.
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Posted: 3/10/2011 6:20 PM
Seriously, one of you A&M fans need to call Gene Smith and tell him to stop all these leaks, because they are actually making them look worse with each additional thing they try to put out there

Spring Practice?!  You knowingly lie to protect you team's title hopes for an entire year and you are thinking Spring Practice is an equivalent and representative punishment?!

The NCAA isn't going to be kind, especially as this nonsense continues to dribble out.
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Posted: 3/11/2011 12:23 AM
And we'd have shown somewhat better in columbus if the coaches hadn't played a qb who wasn't ready and gone to the fetal position offense.  When they put Boo in (mid third-quarter, I believe) it actually began to look that we had brought our offense to the stadium instead of having two sides of defense.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 3/11/2011 12:42 AM
Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
Well, Mike, this is one of the most cockamamie schemes I've ever heard of.  Back in the day, teams actually forfeited games when they used ineligible players or committed other verifiable transgressions.  Way back in 1967 Ohio was behind Oxford Tech in the MAC standings and toward the end of the season it was discovered the Kent State had used an ineligible player in its victory over Ohio.  The Bobcat's loss to KSU was changed to a win, and a score of 1-0 was entered in the record book.  As a result Ohio tied for the championship.  That evoked the now famous quote from Bo Schembechler, "They can play football in Athens until Hell freezes over and they still won't deserve the championship." (from memory but very close to the actual quote)  It seems to me if you've won a game and then irregularities are discovered that the fair thing to do is force a forfeit not this weird "vacate" thing.  Now in basketball in a tournament situation it's a little different.  In this situation if a team would forfeit a game, it would create havoc up and down the bracket that that team was in.  Therefore, to simply "vacate" a game in that context makes sense.  Otherwise, however, I agree with the writer:  it's a "metaphysical NCAA mystery."  Or, in more plain language, it's a little bit of incoherent thinking on the part of the NCAA warlords.  


Surely you don't want last year's game with OSU recorded as a win? I have no problem with the game being "vacated" if that is the NCAA ruling. I don't want to hang my hat on "beating" the Buckeyes when it never really happened. That's the worst kind of charity, and nothing I could be proud of. I might feel differently if I thought the transgression DIRECTLY impacted the play on the field. But as I understand it, that is not the case in this situation. Admittedly, however, I am not following this story closely.


Yes, to answer your question, for the reasons Mike stated and others I want an old-fashioned forfeit, none of this "vacated" crap! 
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Posted: 3/11/2011 8:31 AM
On the general topic of the A&M "mindset" here in Columbus (as in "We can do no wrong"), one of the most influential ex-Buckeyes ever, Kirk Herbstreit, is selling his Columbus home and moving to a city where he has never lived, worked or played - Nashville, TN.

Why, you ask?  Because when it comes to A&M.  Being objective isn't enough for them - only gratuitous praise and biased analysis will do.

“Eighty to ninety percent of the Ohio State fans are great. It’s the vocal minority that make it rough. They probably represent only 5 to 10 percent of the fan base, but they are relentless.”

Well done, Buckeyes!

(I predict that I will now be reminded by our many closet A&M fans just how anti-OSU Herbstriet really is.  1....., 2......, )
Last Edited: 3/11/2011 8:32:40 AM by Bobcatbob
Ryan Carey
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Posted: 3/11/2011 2:04 PM
Nice, death threats against the former Buckeye player who was trying to help the program out by giving Tressel a heads up on Pryor and Posey's garage sale:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6206052&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines



MonroeClassmate
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Posted: 3/11/2011 3:03 PM
Reading the redacted April emails from the attorney is adding to my cynicism of our system whereby those that have, can get away with much and that the typical stiff has little chance.  

Look at the confidential information that this OSU coach was receiving regarding all kinds of nefarious activities going on regarding drug dealings and federal investigations.  How many stings are never successful because of leaks from bar members, law enforcement, judges and elected officials.

Lawyers like this tipping the coach off is outrageous to me.  What if one of the players was actually the drug supplier and a coach could get him out of the situation before the sting goes down?

It is absolutely no wonder that an elected official making $50 grand per year winds up with millions just from influence they wield of having insider information.  All us common folk have little chance at the deals these power brokers receive.

I've long known that my Cleveland is a scum bag city with it's influence peddling where billions of tax revenues are stolen from producers to go to programs benefiting so few of these peddlers and their friends.  Well, now with the esteemed Atty General Marc Dann,  and guys like this lawyer I realize that Columbus has indeed made it to the big time in graft. Really looking forward to the Danny Green movie with the Columbus character coming to a theater near you.....real soon.


Bobcat36
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Posted: 3/11/2011 4:57 PM
Ryan Carey wrote:expand_more
Nice, death threats against the former Buckeye player who was trying to help the program out by giving Tressel a heads up on Pryor and Posey's garage sale:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6206052&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines





Not in the least bit surprising...

You should have heard Dimitrious Stanley going on and on about how he wanted to know who the source was prior to it being announced...An upper echelon journalist for sure.  That program churns out some serious egos I'll give them that... 
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 3/16/2011 3:05 PM
FYI...This morning's Beacon Journal (www.ohio.com) includes an op-ed piece by a fellow named Dale Butland.  He has two children and a daughter-in-law who are OSU grads.  He rips Tressel a new you-know-what. 
 
The op-ed is headlined  "Jim Tressel, the shame of Ohio State" and has a Columbus date line so I'm wondering if it also appeared elsewhere.  When I googled to see if it's in the Dispatch, I saw a piece about Herbstreit leaving Columbus for Tennessee to escape harrassment by disgruntled Buckeye fans.  What an environment!
 
Closing paragraph of Butland's op-ed:  "Now, OSU's reputation as a football factory - which we have worked so long and hard to shed - will be resurrected.  And now, the pride of Buckeye fans like me - who believed The Ohio State University stood for things that far transcend athletics - has suffered a wound that will be a long time healing.  What a shame.  It didn't have to be this way."
 
Apparently no one at OSU has counseled Tressel to utter two of the most powerful words in the English language: I'm sorry. 
John C. Wanamaker
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Posted: 3/16/2011 11:35 PM
And I thought all that talent flocked to Youngstown all those years for all the city had to offer.
Last Edited: 3/16/2011 11:39:13 PM by John C. Wanamaker
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