menu
Logo
Ohio Football Topic
Topic: OT: Tattoo Gate
Page: 14 of 17
cc-cat
General User
C
Member Since: 4/5/2006
Location: matthews, NC
Post Count: 4,016
person
mail
cc-cat
mail
Posted: 6/3/2011 2:10 PM
or even Pryor who is being thrown under the bus by the athletic department and administration.  If it takes the focus off of them (AD/Pres) they will do whatever it takes - who cares if they abandon a guy they enabled (Pryor), or an innocent player or two (Stormy) get caught up in the mess.  Columbus is officially in CYA mode.
JSF
General User
Member Since: 1/29/2005
Location: Houston, TX
Post Count: 6,581
mail
JSF
mail
Posted: 6/3/2011 2:19 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
How many people watch TV or go to the game to see the coach?


A lot.
giacomo
General User
G
Member Since: 11/20/2007
Post Count: 2,764
person
mail
giacomo
mail
Posted: 6/3/2011 4:39 PM
JSF, that would be news to me. But, I've seen grown men dressed head to toe in a school's colors that they never attended. So you may be right.
Robert Fox
General User
RF
Member Since: 11/17/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 2,039
person
mail
Robert Fox
mail
Posted: 6/3/2011 6:06 PM
It's a shame that one of the longest threads on Bobcat Attack is about Ohio State.
cc-cat
General User
C
Member Since: 4/5/2006
Location: matthews, NC
Post Count: 4,016
person
mail
cc-cat
mail
Posted: 6/3/2011 8:21 PM

Agree, except it is about the utter embarrassment of being Ohio State – like they needed any help.

rpbobcat
General User
R
Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 3,664
person
mail
rpbobcat
mail
Posted: 6/7/2011 9:19 AM
Not to keep beating a dead horse (buckeye actually), but today's The Record has a somewhat  unusual quote from osu's president.
According their "Sports Ticker" ,Gee said that Ohio State must "scrub everything" as it works to restore order after the resignation of Jim Tressel.
Last Edited: 6/7/2011 9:20:38 AM by rpbobcat
Bobcat36
General User
Member Since: 1/5/2005
Location: Delaware, OH
Post Count: 1,167
mail
Bobcat36
mail
Posted: 6/7/2011 9:58 AM
Which begs the question, why are Smith and Archie's jobs "safe"?
Piney
General User
P
Member Since: 2/3/2005
Location: Avon Lake, OH
Post Count: 135
person
mail
Piney
mail
Posted: 6/7/2011 10:29 AM
Bobcat36 wrote:expand_more
Which begs the question, why are Smith and Archie's jobs "safe"?


They aren't 'safe', there are rumblings that Smith is the next one out the door. But it will come down to timing, whether to can him now, or to can him after he gets them closer to the NCAA hearing after all the work in getting all the info to the NCAA is done.

Archie will probably be gone with the new AD, and really the only one that is 'safe' is Gee as he is a good president for academics and campaign dollars and really the only thing he does badly is when he talks to the press about sports.
Piney
General User
P
Member Since: 2/3/2005
Location: Avon Lake, OH
Post Count: 135
person
mail
Piney
mail
Posted: 6/7/2011 10:42 AM
cc cat wrote:expand_more
CC: you are changing the context of my original post. Which is that I see paying players and their families is more erroneous than selling your NCAA swag. This was my point, that the initial acts were more severe at SC. This is evidenced by the penalties brought forth in the initial punishment. Five game suspensions and playing in a Bowl game is a minor penalty The only real thing that has surfaced to this point that is of any seriousness is Tressel's action (or inactions), which in themself is a serious action.


I agree the initial offense at SC is more severe (though as you point out, the car deals will trump the SC situation - more players gaining huge financial benefits).  My point was that SC's penalties are not only because Bush took cash, but because SC (asst coach) knew about it - SC knew about infractions, but let it go to allow an ineligible player to play (cheating).  OSU's ultimate NCAA penalty (of which they have received nothing yet as a result of the the cover-up - lying) will be just as severe - especially if any of the car things are true. AND because the head coach (at the least) was in on it  And to someone's post - this is classic lack of institutional control.  The NCAA penalty is stiff for lying to keep players eligible aka cheating. 


As one of the resident Ohio alum/Ohio State fan I should warn everyone... people are going to end up being pissed that Ohio State is not going to get a USC type penalty.

As Battle Cat said, the only real thing so far is Tressel's actions. The 2010 season will be wiped out and Tressel will be sanctioned.

And hate to tell people, this IS NOT a classic lack of institutional control(LOIC). The reason is this was all self-reported. The damning emails from Tressel were found BY compliance and reported to the NCAA in January. I bet at most schools those emails get deleted and never reported. Now THAT would be a classic LOIC. Plus another difference between this and the USC case is USC fought EVERYTHING and withheld info along with not having paperwork. Ohio St is basically cooperating with everything.

The car thing is flushing out now, there is paperwork, and it isn't like they were getting free cars. WORST case they might get a Failure to Monitor type penalty for that. 

Of course if there is more to be found (and every freaking media outlet is sure as heck looking, why they don't do this to other programs I have no clue) then that might change.

But just want to warn you all... in the end the NCAA will have a hard time proving enough to give Ohio St the LOIC and thus the penalties are not going to be as bad as everyone is hoping for.
Monroe Slavin
General User
MS
Member Since: 12/21/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121
person
mail
Monroe Slavin
mail
Posted: 6/7/2011 10:50 AM
So, it wasn't columbus getting out ahead of the tar-and-feather execution line and trying to make like they were leading a parade?

They jumped to move because they knew that the NCAA was coming and would nail them.
BattleCat
General User
BC
Member Since: 11/21/2007
Post Count: 312
person
mail
BattleCat
mail
Posted: 6/7/2011 12:22 PM
Bobcat36 wrote:expand_more
Which begs the question, why are Smith and Archie's jobs "safe"?


Archie's is probably safe because he no longer works in Athletics but is rather the President/CEO of the Ohio State Alumni Association, and his only role with Athletics is simply being Archie.

What Gee is referring to is a massive restructuring of the Compliance department and the way they oversee things.  Blast the guy for a lot of things, however he is one man in College Athletics that can change culture and think outside the box, he has proven that with his moves at Vanderbilt, and I think you may see something similar with the compliance situation at OSU.  May be exactly the catalyst for some real change?  Time will tell.
rpbobcat
General User
R
Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 3,664
person
mail
rpbobcat
mail
Posted: 6/7/2011 12:47 PM

I was wondering if anyone out there knows how an NCAA hearing works when it comes to "proof".

Since its not a criminal trial,I presume the standards are similar to a civil proceeding,which has a much lower threshold for "guilt" or responsibility.

It also seems like the accused institution is trying to prove they're not guilty as opposed to the other way around.

Also,if osu wants to appeal their penalty,like usc did,who do you appeal too ?

 

Bobcat36
General User
Member Since: 1/5/2005
Location: Delaware, OH
Post Count: 1,167
mail
Bobcat36
mail
Posted: 6/7/2011 2:26 PM
BattleCat wrote:expand_more
Which begs the question, why are Smith and Archie's jobs "safe"?


Archie's is probably safe because he no longer works in Athletics but is rather the President/CEO of the Ohio State Alumni Association, and his only role with Athletics is simply being Archie.

What Gee is referring to is a massive restructuring of the Compliance department and the way they oversee things.  Blast the guy for a lot of things, however he is one man in College Athletics that can change culture and think outside the box, he has proven that with his moves at Vanderbilt, and I think you may see something similar with the compliance situation at OSU.  May be exactly the catalyst for some real change?  Time will tell.


I actually meant Doug Archie (Director of Compliance)...

While we're speaking of Archie Griffin though, he has always seemed to be a really good guy with a solid track record of service.  Promoting someone like that, let alone a two time Heisman winning, MBA holding Alum, into the AD's slot would have been a no brainer.  I've often wondered if possibly he didn't want any part of it knowing where the culture already was and seeing it as an unwinnable situation?  Sadly, we'll never know because people that speak the truth are run out of town.

As for Gee...I completely agree that he should be applauded for his accomplishments at Vandy and I believe it's a model that should be adopted across the board for DI schools.  The problem is he's since shown that even though he may have been a pioneer in a more accepting "education first" culture like Vandy's, he knew very well what he was stepping back into when he accepted a 2nd tenure at O$U.   He has shown his true colors with his bashing of Non-AQ institutions and his pandering and complete inaction where this scandal is concerned.  The bow tie and goofy glasses (just like Tressel's vest) can no longer hide the fact that it's all about the money even in the President's office.

 
Mike Coleman
Administrator
Member Since: 12/21/2004
Location: Near the Pristine Sandy Shores of Lake Erie, OH
Post Count: 1,999
mail
Mike Coleman
mail
Posted: 6/7/2011 11:07 PM
Mike Coleman
Administrator
Member Since: 12/21/2004
Location: Near the Pristine Sandy Shores of Lake Erie, OH
Post Count: 1,999
mail
Mike Coleman
mail
Posted: 6/7/2011 11:12 PM
You too can buy a Terrelle Pryor helmet!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Terrelle-Pryor-signed-Ohio-State-mini-helmet-Rose-Bowl-/200581013874?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb38f6172#ht_500wt_922


I love the "confession" in the profile...
"I am a lifelong collector and started selling some of my itesm (HAHA! TYPICAL CAN'T GRAD) on ebay to help with student loans and get my collection under control. I went overboard collecting everything I could get my hands on. I am trying to focus my collection, my loss is your gain!!"

Gotta love a guy who owed the IRS $275,000.
cc-cat
General User
C
Member Since: 4/5/2006
Location: matthews, NC
Post Count: 4,016
person
mail
cc-cat
mail
Posted: 6/7/2011 11:41 PM
Piney wrote:expand_more
As one of the resident Ohio alum/Ohio State fan I should warn everyone... people are going to end up being pissed that Ohio State is not going to get a USC type penalty.

As Battle Cat said, the only real thing so far is Tressel's actions. The 2010 season will be wiped out and Tressel will be sanctioned.

And hate to tell people, this IS NOT a classic lack of institutional control(LOIC). The reason is this was all self-reported. The damning emails from Tressel were found BY compliance and reported to the NCAA in January. I bet at most schools those emails get deleted and never reported. Now THAT would be a classic LOIC. Plus another difference between this and the USC case is USC fought EVERYTHING and withheld info along with not having paperwork. Ohio St is basically cooperating with everything.

The car thing is flushing out now, there is paperwork, and it isn't like they were getting free cars. WORST case they might get a Failure to Monitor type penalty for that. 

Of course if there is more to be found (and every freaking media outlet is sure as heck looking, why they don't do this to other programs I have no clue) then that might change.

But just want to warn you all... in the end the NCAA will have a hard time proving enough to give Ohio St the LOIC and thus the penalties are not going to be as bad as everyone is hoping for.


You think so?
Last Edited: 6/7/2011 11:49:32 PM by cc-cat
davepi2
General User
D2
Member Since: 7/9/2010
Location: columbus, OH
Post Count: 583
person
mail
davepi2
mail
Posted: 6/8/2011 12:16 AM
Today's news about pryor receiving thousands of dollars from a columbus photographer I thinks adds just  a little more fuel to the fire. Lack of Institutional Control charge is coming soon. A more interesting question though is with today's new will pryor be in trouble with the irs now?
cc-cat
General User
C
Member Since: 4/5/2006
Location: matthews, NC
Post Count: 4,016
person
mail
cc-cat
mail
Posted: 6/8/2011 12:21 AM
Maybe Pryor also kept his money and Gucci under his mattress.

http://www.buckeyeplanet.com/forum/buckeye-football/19903...
davepi2
General User
D2
Member Since: 7/9/2010
Location: columbus, OH
Post Count: 583
person
mail
davepi2
mail
Posted: 6/8/2011 8:20 AM
sportsbybrooks reports that a paper trail exists of checks from talbott to pryor . It also has talbotts ebay account and all the pryor signed stuff he has for sale. One last thing the article mentions that ohio state has already been cited by the ncaa for this. This seems be to a pattern, when news is about to break about someone, they leave the school. Smith will be next.
Last Edited: 6/8/2011 8:22:08 AM by davepi2
Piney
General User
P
Member Since: 2/3/2005
Location: Avon Lake, OH
Post Count: 135
person
mail
Piney
mail
Posted: 6/8/2011 8:34 AM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more

I was wondering if anyone out there knows how an NCAA hearing works when it comes to "proof".

Since its not a criminal trial,I presume the standards are similar to a civil proceeding,which has a much lower threshold for "guilt" or responsibility.

It also seems like the accused institution is trying to prove they're not guilty as opposed to the other way around.

Also,if osu wants to appeal their penalty,like usc did,who do you appeal too ?



It's a double edge sword on the proof part. It takes less proof for the NCAA to find someone guilty than a court of law and is a low burden.

BUT, the NCAA doesn't have enough power to get the proof in most cases. For example they can't just read an article as proof, the 'sources' for these articles HAVE to talk to the NCAA.  So the secret source in the SI article would have to talk to the NCAA for anything to go on record, the 'former' friend that doesn't want to be identified has to go to the NCAA and/or the paper trail for the latest Pryor getting $40k has to be found.

They have to get a hold of something on paper or during interviews.

And of course I actually had to post my Failure to Monitor post right before the latest shit about Pryor came out. But once again... getting someone on the record is ALWAYS the hardest part in NCAA investigations. It's why it took so long for the NCAA to get USC because they had to get that agent to talk to them and why they couldn't get Cam Newton for anything more than the Dad was asking for money. Also why the Clarett mess back then didn't go far was because while everyone was willing to talk to ESPN, no one talked to the NCAA.

cc-cat
General User
C
Member Since: 4/5/2006
Location: matthews, NC
Post Count: 4,016
person
mail
cc-cat
mail
Posted: 6/8/2011 10:04 AM
Pryor can now tell the NCAA to crew off - which makes the investigation difficult. 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/andy_staple...

But if there is a paper trail...

That said, my understanding is the level of punishment dished out be the NCAA is not directly tied to any type of ledger - e.g., this crime gets this punishment - so there is some leeway (in increasing the severity) if they feel there is fire because of all the smoke.
Last Edited: 6/8/2011 10:08:48 AM by cc-cat
Mike Johnson
General User
Member Since: 11/11/2004
Location: North Canton, OH
Post Count: 1,759
mail
Mike Johnson
mail
Posted: 6/8/2011 10:29 AM
Many college football fans don't realize or keep in mind who the NCAA is.  Some seem to view it as a disembodied enemy of college football.  It is of course a member-driven organization.  No school is forced to join, but once it does it agrees to abide by the org's rules.  And who makes those rules?  Reps of the member schools.  Indeed, numerous coaches and ADs sit on various NCAA committees or councils. 
Bobcat36
General User
Member Since: 1/5/2005
Location: Delaware, OH
Post Count: 1,167
mail
Bobcat36
mail
Posted: 6/8/2011 10:37 AM
The NCAA isn't going to need cooperation from Pryor to investigate this latest revelation.  O$U revoked this joker's press credentials.  They obviously knew what was going on (even a Father of a former player has come out and confirmed he witnessed "stacks of cash" exchanging hands for signed memoribilia) and yet still the Compliance Dept made zero efforts to look into it.

The scarlet & grey shaded arguments against LOIC have less and less basis every time the Media puts pen to paper...
Last Edited: 6/8/2011 10:38:20 AM by Bobcat36
giacomo
General User
G
Member Since: 11/20/2007
Post Count: 2,764
person
mail
giacomo
mail
Posted: 6/8/2011 10:55 AM
He is now where he belongs, in the open market for his talent and skills. Good luck to him.
BattleCat
General User
BC
Member Since: 11/21/2007
Post Count: 312
person
mail
BattleCat
mail
Posted: 6/8/2011 11:21 AM
Bobcat36 wrote:expand_more
The NCAA isn't going to need cooperation from Pryor to investigate this latest revelation.  O$U revoked this joker's press credentials.  They obviously knew what was going on (even a Father of a former player has come out and confirmed he witnessed "stacks of cash" exchanging hands for signed memoribilia) and yet still the Compliance Dept made zero efforts to look into it.

The scarlet & grey shaded arguments against LOIC have less and less basis every time the Media puts pen to paper...


If they revoked his press credentials, and limited him from campus and being around the athletes at OSU, than OSU did what was in their powers, not like they can put the guy under house arrest, nor can they watch every player 24/7.  The merchandise thing goes on and is almost impossible to stop.  Pick a prominent player of a major college team and ebay them.  You will find litterally hundreds of photo's, mini helmets, and footballs. 

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m...

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=marcus+lattimore&_sacat=See-All-Categories

How do you seriously control this?  I am not saying what this guy and the OSU players did was right in anyway.  I am saying thought that this problem is almost impossible to monitor and police.
Last Edited: 6/8/2011 11:27:11 AM by BattleCat
Showing Messages: 326 - 350 of 420



extra small (< 576px)
small (>= 576px)
medium (>= 768px)
large (>= 992px)
x-large (>= 1200px)
xx-large (>= 1400px)