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The Optimist
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Posted: 9/26/2011 6:28 PM
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:expand_more
Can I just hijack this thread briefly to say, thank you for Jason Arkley of the Athens Messenger. 

Its nice having a constant/reliable source for bobcat news. 


Agreed.  He is one of my top 5 favorite follows on Twitter along with Darren Rovell and some friends.
perimeterpost
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Posted: 9/26/2011 7:11 PM
meanwhile on another thread everyone is so deeply offended because someone dared to  criticize a football player for jumping off sides 3 times in 1 drive. how dare they, what if someone Google's his name on the interwebs and sees the comments? he'll be unemployable!

BUT, if the editor of the Post wants to come on and defend his "team mates" and use his own name while doing so, then, oh well, the gloves are off coming off. bunch of internet tough guys think they need to show this kid who's boss because they took a journalism class 35 years ago. so sad.

where are we, Oxford?
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 9/26/2011 8:30 PM
Just curious...How many years - or decades - has it been since elementary school students were required to diagram sentences and master grammar? 

I'm reminded of my own elementary school teachers - Franciscan nuns.  They often taught two grades - 50 to 60 kids - simultaneously in the same classroom.  Some how, some way, they actually succeeded.  I took it for granted then, but not now.  The clearest evidence of their success were the class rankings of their students who went to the local public high school. 
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 9/26/2011 10:18 PM
Mike Johnson wrote:expand_more
Just curious...How many years - or decades - has it been since elementary school students were required to diagram sentences and master grammar? 

I'm reminded of my own elementary school teachers - Franciscan nuns.  They often taught two grades - 50 to 60 kids - simultaneously in the same classroom.  Some how, some way, they actually succeeded.  I took it for granted then, but not now.  The clearest evidence of their success were the class rankings of their students who went to the local public high school. 


I am 27 and I diagrammed sentences for about three years in fourth through sixth grades, so it's still done. At a public school, no less.

I learned all that so that I could break every rule of grammar and add, superfluous, commas, and -- dashes -- in every sentence I write professionally. But I do at least know I'm breaking those rules. That allows me to delude myself into thinking it's okay.

In my mind, I'm screaming: "I AM CORMAC MCCARTHY! WATCH ME SKIRT THE RULES OF ENGLISH TO GAIN OPRAH'S SEAL OF APPROVAL!"

I'm sure it sounds like Andrew McCarthy wrote it. Whatever.
Last Edited: 9/26/2011 10:21:04 PM by Brian Smith (No, not that one)
SBH
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Posted: 9/26/2011 10:25 PM
Learn English, take Latin.
Recovering Journalist
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Posted: 9/26/2011 10:50 PM
perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
BUT, if the editor of the Post wants to come on and defend his "team mates" and use his own name while doing so, then, oh well, the gloves are off coming off. bunch of internet tough guys think they need to show this kid who's boss because they took a journalism class 35 years ago. so sad.


I agree. Some of these comments are ridiculous. The Post is a living classroom. The kids put their work in front of us for free five times a week while going to class and probably holding down jobs. I don't think we're out of line to point out factual errors or offer constructive critiques, but some of this ranting is shameful. It's not accurate, fair or reasonable to call these kids lazy or careless. Making a simple and non-malicious mistake as a student journalist is not "disgraceful." They're doing the work to learn how to do it better. Save the angry screeds for paid professional journalists (who are getting harder to find).
Ohio90
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Posted: 9/26/2011 11:12 PM
So let me get this straight..  A bunch of 35 year-olds are hiding behind their computer and ripping on 20 year-old college kids at a paper ranked in the top 15 in the country by princeton review? I bet ripping on kids makes you feel like a real tough guy.. Get a life, and realize that all of these students are smarter than you will ever be. 
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 9/27/2011 10:19 AM
Ohio90 wrote:expand_more
So let me get this straight..  A bunch of 35 year-olds are hiding behind their computer and ripping on 20 year-old college kids at a paper ranked in the top 15 in the country by princeton review? I bet ripping on kids makes you feel like a real tough guy.. Get a life, and realize that all of these students are smarter than you will ever be. 


Ah, yes, nothing like overwrought, sweeping generalizations to make a case.

Let's see, some of us are tad more senior than 35.  And 'hiding" and "ripping" doesn't appear the approach of all bobcatattackers. 

I do think it likely that some bobcatattackers have a life and perhaps are the measure of young up-and-comers. 
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 9/27/2011 10:21 AM
Brian Smith wrote:expand_more
Just curious...How many years - or decades - has it been since elementary school students were required to diagram sentences and master grammar? 

I'm reminded of my own elementary school teachers - Franciscan nuns.  They often taught two grades - 50 to 60 kids - simultaneously in the same classroom.  Some how, some way, they actually succeeded.  I took it for granted then, but not now.  The clearest evidence of their success were the class rankings of their students who went to the local public high school. 


I am 27 and I diagrammed sentences for about three years in fourth through sixth grades, so it's still done. At a public school, no less.

I learned all that so that I could break every rule of grammar and add, superfluous, commas, and -- dashes -- in every sentence I write professionally. But I do at least know I'm breaking those rules. That allows me to delude myself into thinking it's okay.

In my mind, I'm screaming: "I AM CORMAC MCCARTHY! WATCH ME SKIRT THE RULES OF ENGLISH TO GAIN OPRAH'S SEAL OF APPROVAL!"

I'm sure it sounds like Andrew McCarthy wrote it. Whatever.


Your bold-faced paragraph is encouraging.  I wonder how widespread is that practice now.  I'll ask a few teacher friends for additional insight into today's approach to teaching the king's English. 
C Money
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Posted: 9/27/2011 10:56 AM
Mike Johnson wrote:expand_more
Just curious...How many years - or decades - has it been since elementary school students were required to diagram sentences and master grammar?  
 



We started diagramming in 3rd or 4th grade probably, and continued to diagram up through 9th grade I think. Starting in 10th grade English class became more of a creative writing class than a grammar class. I graduated H.S. in 2001.

On an unrelated note, Jesus Christ it's been hostile around here lately. Conference play starts this week, fellas! Let's focus!
The Optimist
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Posted: 9/27/2011 11:03 AM
Ohio90 wrote:expand_more
So let me get this straight..  A bunch of 35 year-olds are hiding behind their computer and ripping on 20 year-old college kids at a paper ranked in the top 15 in the country by princeton review? I bet ripping on kids makes you feel like a real tough guy.. Get a life, and realize that all of these students are smarter than you will ever be. 

I'm 21, and a Senior at Ohio University.  If you want to know who I am, it's easy enough to find out.  If I had been polled in the Princeton Review study, The Post would not have received a good review.  My parents, both Ohio grads from the 80's, have both remarked that the paper is not of the quality that is was when they are in school.

Basic research mistakes and misquotes are not what I expect from OUr school newspaper.  Does The Post take everyone who applies?
Bobcatbob
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Posted: 9/27/2011 11:54 AM
Your perspective about what is "good" is certainly going to be different at age 40 than it was at 19, at least I hope so. 

My only complaint about the current POST isn't their fault at all.  Every paper used to have one to two pages of classifieds in my day, most of which were personal ads about who was or wasn't miserable over that missed phone call, the late night encounter, the bad breakup or the birthday party that was being planned that night.  Besides the revenue those brought in, which they could certainly use now, it was probably the only part of the paper that everyone read every day.  Now we have Facebook.. {sigh}.

So, if you're in school now and you want a better paper put a secret message to your lover in the POST along with your dorm room phone number....  All of us will thank you.  It will also distract you from the occasional gammatical error.
Pete Chouteau
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Posted: 9/27/2011 12:54 PM
At the risk of being wrong, I invite anyone who says the Post is worse today than (X) years ago to hit the microfilm on the first floor of Alden and pick any date near your supposition.

I think you will find the college writers of that era to be just as awful as they are today. The percentage of Scripps grads and Post writers that go on to become Peter King or slate.com editors is a decisive minority compared to future ice factory managers, sheriffs' department attorneys and community theatre activists.
JSF
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Posted: 9/27/2011 1:54 PM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
Basic research mistakes and misquotes are not what I expect from OUr school newspaper.  Does The Post take everyone who applies?


For the most part, yes. And there's no real reason they shouldn't. Everyone should get a shot.

But my understanding is that The Post's reputation in Scripps has plummeted in recent years. Instead of getting the cream of the crop, the school's top students opt for WOUB, online publications, or PR. The opinion of newspapers continues to sink within the journalism field and what we see at Scripps reflects that. Nobody wants to work newspapers.
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 9/27/2011 6:00 PM
As I've said before, the public discussion of all this lags by about a decade. The quality issues, the lack of editing, the tug-of-war whether newspapers can be saved were waged internally in the early 2000s. Inside the industry, it's just counting down the days until the bomb goes off. At this point, you either have to accept what a newspaper is or don't buy it. There will be mistakes, likely due to not enough eyes looking at each page. There won't be context, because the person writing it isn't old enough to remember a similar situation to draw from. TAll the veterans with ink on their hands were let go in about 2003 in a buyout. I'm 27 and the oldest person in my news room. There used to be an a-hole who sat in a corner office at every paper who knew everything there was to know about the city he worked in. He's gone now. That's depressing.

I don't see the need to dawdle at a crime scene. Newspapers don't attract the same level of writers and thinkers they did a generation before. This is what is left. Take it or leave it. The best and brightest went elsewhere.

And even if The Post and other papers were providing outstanding storytelling and flawless stories, the consumer does not pay for it, does not want it wholesale. The advertising isn't there. The educated public is not there. Jim Lehrer pumps out a newscast fit for Murrow every night and no one watches. The Economist gives a flawless take on the world's events every week and you have to take out a second mortgage to get it delivered to your home just to subsidize fantastic journalism.

What does this have to do with a newspaper given out for free and has plenty of eyes to put on pages? When the professional end of the business doesn't provide incentive for innovative, driven people to enter it, the pool of applicants at the college rank dips considerably. When a university can make money by opening the floodgates of admission for a major that isn't exactly rigorous, you create problems, as well.

That's where we are.
stub
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Posted: 9/29/2011 2:56 PM
[QUOTE=WesleyLowery]

Constructive criticism is always welcome, but do us a favor and read the paper every once and awhile before bashing it.
Wes
Editor-in-Chief, The Post
 (QUOTE]

Well, I do read The Post, and I've commented on stuff before, being positive at times, and noting some serious mistakes in content and form. In today's edition (9/29/11), the main headline in the sport's section is simply inexcusable: (my italics)

Volleyball: Bobcats not bad at bump, set, spike, but their the country’s best blockers
Last Edited: 9/29/2011 2:59:27 PM by stub
WesleyLowery
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Posted: 9/29/2011 4:23 PM
Correct, there was an error in one sports headline this morning.

Not quite a "serious content flaw," but point taken. Thanks for the feedback
Bobcatbob
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Posted: 9/29/2011 4:25 PM
In other words, don't loose you're perspective. 
The Optimist
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Posted: 9/29/2011 6:49 PM
WesleyLowery wrote:expand_more
Correct, there was an error in one sports headline this morning.

Not quite a "serious content flaw," but point taken. Thanks for the feedback

Does anyone actually proofread The Post before printing starts?  I'm admittedly grammar deficient, but even I noticed that today reading the headline for the first time.
WesleyLowery
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Posted: 9/29/2011 8:25 PM
The process is as follows:

-Stories are written between 10am and 3pm (obviously later for things such as Student Senate meetings and evening sports events.

-Articles are then edited for grammar and content by "section editors" (the sports editor, campus editor, city editor, etc.) who also are also responsible for fact checking.

-Front page articles are then read and fact checked by myself and/or the managing editor. 

-3 copy editors then read each article, before sending it to designers to place on the page. Designers then send page prints back to the copy editors, where it is read twice more.

-The night's lead copyeditor (called a "slot") and the "late night editor" (who is any of our masthead editors, rotating depending on the night) then write headlines, spell check the page, check for other common stylistic errors and then send to press - usually between 3am and 5am.

So yes, each article has been edited at least once for content and numerous times for style, grammar and punctuation. The process is very similar to any to those being used in professional newsroom across the country.  







perimeterpost
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Posted: 9/29/2011 9:44 PM
this is the nerdiest board in all of college sport.
JSF
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Posted: 9/29/2011 10:04 PM
Not that this means anything to anyone here, but I guarantee the headline writer (or editor) responsible for the mistake feels sick about it and has had a good talking-to. Possibly even a warning, depending on how strict they are these days.

And when did it stop being called "hot copy editor"?
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 9/29/2011 10:55 PM
perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
this is the nerdiest board in all of college sport.


You're correct . . . and we're darn proud of it, too!
anorris
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Posted: 11/14/2011 2:08 PM


OhioCatFan
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Posted: 11/14/2011 2:17 PM
It's really nice to have such versatile players.  It really confuses the opposition! 
Last Edited: 11/14/2011 2:19:10 PM by OhioCatFan
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