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Topic: Sickening scandal at Penn State
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 11/10/2011 12:12 PM
Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
I didn't slam you at all. I responded to your shot at me. Having an opinion is fine, but it's only an opinion. At this point, none of us can know for sure what happened. At least not until more details emerge. The only thiing I'm confident about right now, is that Sandusky is a slimebag. After that, it gets a bit more unclear.


Sandusky is not a slimebag. Sandusky is a predatory monster.


Can't he be both?
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Posted: 11/10/2011 12:36 PM
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
I didn't slam you at all. I responded to your shot at me. Having an opinion is fine, but it's only an opinion. At this point, none of us can know for sure what happened. At least not until more details emerge. The only thiing I'm confident about right now, is that Sandusky is a slimebag. After that, it gets a bit more unclear.


Sandusky is not a slimebag. Sandusky is a predatory monster.


Can't he be both?


Sandusky was a loyal talented coach an accepted the so called  "punishments" metered down by the university. When the pressure came he lowered his profile. Paterno like Tressel had enough of an ego to lash out at the media and do whatever he could to dismisss and prolong HC tenure. Covering and glossing over the programs dirt. They both put on a big image with the tie and sweatervests like noble football professors. When those sweatervests come off you see who them as the scumbags they are. Paterno was so power hungry he would rather sit out on the sidelines and coach from a wheelchair if he could. Like Tressel there is nothing about Paterno to be respected.
Robert Fox
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Posted: 11/10/2011 1:11 PM
Where do you get your assurity on this? How do you know so much about Paterno and what's happened behind the scenes? You're blasting a guy based on what exactly? The evidence is still coming out, but yet you seem to have it all sewn up.
Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 11/10/2011 1:54 PM
Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
I didn't slam you at all. I responded to your shot at me. Having an opinion is fine, but it's only an opinion. At this point, none of us can know for sure what happened. At least not until more details emerge. The only thiing I'm confident about right now, is that Sandusky is a slimebag. After that, it gets a bit more unclear.


Sandusky is not a slimebag. Sandusky is a predatory monster.


Can't he be both?


Sandusky was a loyal talented coach an accepted the so called  "punishments" metered down by the university. When the pressure came he lowered his profile. Paterno like Tressel had enough of an ego to lash out at the media and do whatever he could to dismisss and prolong HC tenure. Covering and glossing over the programs dirt. They both put on a big image with the tie and sweatervests like noble football professors. When those sweatervests come off you see who them as the scumbags they are. Paterno was so power hungry he would rather sit out on the sidelines and coach from a wheelchair if he could. Like Tressel there is nothing about Paterno to be respected.


I think you're reaching here a little. Again, with respect to how completely different the situations are... Tressel brought baggage with him and an entire state didn't care. (They still don't - he's completely idolized here still). I think Penn STate's problems got worse as Paterno got older and had less real control over the program. I don't think he was much more than the face of the program in recent years, just a figurehead, and to a degree,  sheltered a bit from how the sausage was really made.
Ohio69
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Posted: 11/10/2011 1:57 PM
Has anybody seen a timeline of the events in this sad situation?  When the grad assistant saw what he saw?  Which situation the D.A. decided not to prosecute.?  How long after the D.A. went missing?  And etc.  I'm a bit confused.

My opinion on this hinges 100% on what the grad assistant told Paterno.  If he provided complete details, then Joe Pa is a disgrace.  If he dumbed it down to seeing "something inappropriate", then Joe Pa gets a lot of space from me.  In that situation -- being told about something that happened in the past --  all employers and their legal teams/advisors tell employees to report it to the boss and .... that's it.  And, they definitely do not want individuals attempting to contact victims.  Ever. 

Anyway, what a disaster.  Sandusky is one sick dude.  And the folks who covered it up are jus as sick.  Uhg.
Last Edited: 11/10/2011 2:00:29 PM by Ohio69
Athens
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Posted: 11/10/2011 2:00 PM
Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
Where do you get your assurity on this? How do you know so much about Paterno and what's happened behind the scenes? You're blasting a guy based on what exactly? The evidence is still coming out, but yet you seem to have it all sewn up.


I respect the opinion of the Penn State Board of Trustees. They know Joe Paterno personally and the nature of his relationship with Jerry Sandusky. Sandusky has always been Paterno's boy. We haven't seen any sense of remorse from Paterno when for all these years he enabled Sandusky's wonderland. The right thing to do for Joe Paterno would have been to hold a press conference in 2002 addressing the situation and resign immediately applogizing for handing over the keys of the football facilities to Jerry. He could have said we weren't sure if the allegations had any grounds back in 1999 and we asked Jerry to step aside and extremely poor judgement to have agreed to letting him have the keys. "I feel deeply sorry for what has occurred by here and its best that I resign now to let the university move forward. I just can't continue on at Penn State with what has happened." Paterno should have been stepping away not on Tuesday or Monday of this week but all the way back in 2002. He is directly responsible for making Jerry Sandusky an institution at Penn State. JoePa this is on you.
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Posted: 11/10/2011 2:01 PM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
Has anybody seen a timeline of the events in this sad situation?  When the grad assistant saw what he saw?  Which situation the D.A. decided not to prosecute.?  How long after the D.A. went missing?  And etc.  I'm a bit confused.

My opinion on this hinges 100% on what the grad assistant told Paterno.  If he provided complete details, then Joe Pa is a disgrace.  If he dumbed it down to seeing "something inappropriate", then Joe Pa gets a lot of space from me.  In that situation -- being told about something that happened in the past --  all employers and their legal teams/advisors tell employees to report it to the boss and .... that's it.  And, they definitely do not want individuals attempting to contact victims.  Ever. 

Anyway, what a disaster.  Sandusky is one sick dude.  And the folks who covered it up are jus as sick.  Uhg.


DA decides not to prosecute in 1998. Sandusky retires in 1999. GA sees anal rape in 2002. DA goes missing in 2005 with computer and hard drive recovered seperately in the Susquehanna River.
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Posted: 11/10/2011 2:05 PM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
Has anybody seen a timeline of the events in this sad situation?  When the grad assistant saw what he saw?  Which situation the D.A. decided not to prosecute.?  How long after the D.A. went missing?  And etc.  I'm a bit confused.

My opinion on this hinges 100% on what the grad assistant told Paterno.  If he provided complete details, then Joe Pa is a disgrace.  If he dumbed it down to seeing "something inappropriate", then Joe Pa gets a lot of space from me.  In that situation -- being told about something that happened in the past --  all employers and their legal teams/advisors tell employees to report it to the boss and .... that's it.  And, they definitely do not want individuals attempting to contact victims.  Ever. 

Anyway, what a disaster.  Sandusky is one sick dude.  And the folks who covered it up are jus as sick.  Uhg.


The problem with this line of thinking is this incident happened in 2002. Joe Pa already made a decision to dismiss Jerry from the staff back in 1998 for the investigation going on all the way back then. When the grad student came forward that should have been absolutely the last straw for Paterno and staff.
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Posted: 11/10/2011 2:14 PM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
Has anybody seen a timeline of the events in this sad situation?  When the grad assistant saw what he saw?  Which situation the D.A. decided not to prosecute.?  How long after the D.A. went missing?  And etc.  I'm a bit confused.

My opinion on this hinges 100% on what the grad assistant told Paterno.  If he provided complete details, then Joe Pa is a disgrace.  If he dumbed it down to seeing "something inappropriate", then Joe Pa gets a lot of space from me.  In that situation -- being told about something that happened in the past --  all employers and their legal teams/advisors tell employees to report it to the boss and .... that's it.  And, they definitely do not want individuals attempting to contact victims.  Ever. 

Anyway, what a disaster.  Sandusky is one sick dude.  And the folks who covered it up are jus as sick.  Uhg.


We'll probably never know what exactly McQueary told Paterno. But here is Paterno's own grand jury testimony: 
Joseph V. Paterno testified to receiving the graduate assistant's report at his home on a Saturday morning. Paterno testified that the graduate assistant was very upset. Paterno called Tim Curley, Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno's immediate supervisor, to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy.

These are Paterno's own recollections. He knew something of a sexual nature was going on between Sandusky and a boy in the shower. So depending upon what exactly the GA told him may make you more or less disgusted by his actions. But they obviously support the actions taken yesterday and Paterno's own public statements even show that he realizes he should have done more.
Ohio69
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Posted: 11/10/2011 2:16 PM
Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
We haven't seen any sense of remorse from Paterno


Sure we have.  Joe Paterno:  "This is a tragedy.  It is one of the great sorrows of my life.  WIth the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more."

I will restate that no employer will tell an employee to directly call the police when told about any sort of criminal activity after the fact.  That employee will be told (back then, now, and in the future) to go tell the bosses.  The bosses, the employer's legal team, and its security (or police if they have it) will handle it from there.  That is standard operating procedure.  And, no employer or lawyer will tell an employee to try to contact a victim directly.  No chance.  And, later on, when the employee asks questions, he/she will likely be told that no information can be shared due to an ongoing investigation.  And, if its resolved, the employee will just be told the matter is closed.

I'm not saying this is good.  I'm just saying that's how it is in todays litigious society.

So, I can imagine a scenario where Paterno did exactly the above. 

That doesn't excuse him at all.  He should have been way more agressive in getting Sandusky the hell away from Penn State and children.

But....lets say Paterno followed standard operating procedure.  Why would he think he's an evil villian, as he is being portrayed by ESPN and others? 

Anyway, what a disgrace.
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Posted: 11/10/2011 2:21 PM
Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
Has anybody seen a timeline of the events in this sad situation?  When the grad assistant saw what he saw?  Which situation the D.A. decided not to prosecute.?  How long after the D.A. went missing?  And etc.  I'm a bit confused.

My opinion on this hinges 100% on what the grad assistant told Paterno.  If he provided complete details, then Joe Pa is a disgrace.  If he dumbed it down to seeing "something inappropriate", then Joe Pa gets a lot of space from me.  In that situation -- being told about something that happened in the past --  all employers and their legal teams/advisors tell employees to report it to the boss and .... that's it.  And, they definitely do not want individuals attempting to contact victims.  Ever. 

Anyway, what a disaster.  Sandusky is one sick dude.  And the folks who covered it up are jus as sick.  Uhg.


The problem with this line of thinking is this incident happened in 2002. Joe Pa already made a decision to dismiss Jerry from the staff back in 1998 for the investigation going on all the way back then. When the grad student came forward that should have been absolutely the last straw for Paterno and staff.

That is speculation. Jerry retired. He was not fired and you have no evidence he was forced out because of the 1998 incident. People are drawing conclusions based on that.
Ohio69
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Posted: 11/10/2011 2:24 PM
SouthernCat wrote:expand_more
DA decides not to prosecute in 1998. Sandusky retires in 1999. GA sees anal rape in 2002. DA goes missing in 2005 with computer and hard drive recovered seperately in the Susquehanna River.


That's two opportunities for Paterno to use his emmense power to keep Sandusky away from Penn State and children.  Inexplicable.

Unless, he was told by those bosses who were fired this week that they were handling things.  Or a by a D.A. that nothing can be substantiated.  Etc.  I could see Paterno thinking he's done what he can do.

Again, even in those scenarious I would hope he acts to keep Sandusky the hell away from Penn State and kids.

(By the way, another prosecutor was found dead in/near a small river in Central Pennsylvania around the same time:  2004-05.  He was Federal I think.  Kind of a creepy coincidence.  No?)
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Posted: 11/10/2011 3:38 PM
Not much about the president of Penn State is mentioned in this but I found it creepy that he's best known for writing articles about swingers. Was his cover up supported by findings from his research as to how to handle the situation? What was his moral code?


Spanier graduated from Highland Park High School (Highland Park, Illinois), and earned his bachelor's and master's degrees fromIowa State University where he was honored with the Distinguished Achievement Citation by the ISU Alumni Association in 2004.[3] He earned his Ph.D.. in sociology from Northwestern University where he was a Woodrow Wilson Fellow. While a researcher, he contributed to the publication of ten books and over 100 scholarly journal articles. As a family sociologist, demographer, and marriage and family therapist, he was the founding editor of the Journal of Family Issues.[4] Spanier was also an author of a study in the Archives of Sexual Behavior concerning the practice of mate swapping, or "swinging".[5]
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Posted: 11/10/2011 3:48 PM
Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
Not much about the president of Penn State is mentioned in this but I found it creepy that he's best known for writing articles about swingers. Was his cover up supported by findings from his research as to how to handle the situation? What was his moral code?


Spanier graduated from Highland Park High School (Highland Park, Illinois), and earned his bachelor's and master's degrees fromIowa State University where he was honored with the Distinguished Achievement Citation by the ISU Alumni Association in 2004.[3] He earned his Ph.D.. in sociology from Northwestern University where he was a Woodrow Wilson Fellow. While a researcher, he contributed to the publication of ten books and over 100 scholarly journal articles. As a family sociologist, demographer, and marriage and family therapist, he was the founding editor of the Journal of Family Issues.[4] Spanier was also an author of a study in the Archives of Sexual Behavior concerning the practice of mate swapping, or "swinging".[5]


I don't think his research area has anything to do with his moral code. He was a Sociologist.

Just to be clear. I think his actions were reprehensible in not pursuing criminal punishment for Sandusky. I just don't think his area of research has anything to do with it.
Ohio69
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Posted: 11/10/2011 4:24 PM
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Posted: 11/10/2011 4:34 PM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more


The only question left to answer is will Joe Paterno himself end up charged criminally. Is this going to be like the OJ murder trial and drag on for a year under the spotlight?
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Posted: 11/10/2011 5:07 PM
Wow...we all agree one guy is some kind of pervert.  We all agree a whole bunch of other people made bad choices and decisions that covered up the actions of the pervert and allowed him to continue his deviant behavior. 

I think, going back to 1998, the DA that did NOT prosecute the first case is the "person in LEGAL authority" that made the initial really bad decision.  He charges the pervert in 1999 and it ends then.  After that, seems as though Joe at least kicked his pervert/buddy off the staff (told him he would not be the next head coach, I think we now all know why). 

After the pervert retires and this first incident it is just really hard to fathom that they ALL continued to let this guy hang around and be part of the program.  That is what is really really really quite disappointing!
Last Edited: 11/10/2011 5:08:40 PM by Casper71
Athens
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Posted: 11/10/2011 5:19 PM
The DA may have not prosecuted because of intimidation. Intimidation which could have led to his mysterious death in 2005. There is so much to this story yet unclear.
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Posted: 11/10/2011 5:23 PM
Casper71,  it makes one wonder what other skeletons Sandusky knew about -- and perhaps threatened to go public with -- that might have made PSU administrators not come clean.  This is, of course, complete speculation, but it seems there's got to be some explanation for all this inexplicable behavior.  My guess is that's there's a whole "nother" level to this scandal that's yet to be revealed.  I must admit that prior to this I though PSU was one of the cleanest BCS programs.  Boy was I wrong about that!  
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Posted: 11/10/2011 5:54 PM
Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
The DA may have not prosecuted because of intimidation. Intimidation which could have led to his mysterious death in 2005. There is so much to this story yet unclear.


I thought he was still missing when did he turn up dead?  How come no one is calling for mcCleary to be fired he was witness and did same thing JOPA did ? If JOPA should have done more than tell his boos a witness damn sure needed to do more.
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Posted: 11/10/2011 6:09 PM
Legally declared dead, but no body ever found.   
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Posted: 11/10/2011 11:43 PM
OCF-don't we both wonder?  I see there are rumors of the pervert being a pimp for big money guys with the Foundation providing kids.  Media investigation ongoing but I am afraid this is gonna be real ugly when the whole story is known.  There just MAY be a whole lotta other people with lots to hide!

UGH.
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Posted: 11/11/2011 11:01 AM
PutnamField wrote:expand_more
Once you report something to proper people and they do not act on it you are not guilty.


The grad assistant, the janitor, Paterno, the AD and the other administrator did not report it to the proper people.

The proper people are called the police.

Amazing that you don't get it. I'll spell it out for you:

If you see a man raping a 10-year-old boy, you call the police and think hard about making sure the perp doesn't flee before they get there.

You don't just tell your boss.

Good lord, no wonder this country's in trouble.
What kind of twirp is MCreary?  He had an IMMEDIATE RESPONSIBILITY TO CALL POLICE - RIGHT THEN - not tto call his daddy or tell somebody later.  Surely, he could have found a club or something and stopped it.  Just yelling at Sandusky to stop would have better than what he did.  He (the candy ***) shoild be the first to go.  Then, I think they all covered it up (including Joe). 
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Posted: 11/11/2011 11:16 AM
Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more


The only question left to answer is will Joe Paterno himself end up charged criminally. Is this going to be like the OJ murder trial and drag on for a year under the spotlight?


As of last night, Paterno has hired a criminal defense attorney.  Smart move by Joe.  Wonder if the PSU Board is footing the bill?
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Posted: 12/22/2011 2:25 PM
Here's a Temple alum MH55 won't be bragging about anymore.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20111221_Anoth...
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