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Topic: Coaches Gdowski(QB), Lightner(OL), and Grooms(Ops) to Vandy
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Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 1/19/2014 2:03 PM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
...If wasn't working over the course of a full season, would Vinnie have kept pounding it or would he have tried something--play, players, formations, etc--different?  ...

Well, of course he'd have kept running it. He would, of course, have continued to make minor adjustments, and worked with the players to try to solve the problem of why it wasn't working it as well as he wanted, but if he stopped running it at all, none of the other plays would work anymore, either, since the other plays in his playbook were largely reactions to how the defense adjusted to try to stop his key play.

Honest question, if Albin and Gdowski were co-Coordinators, why did all threads transpire by name of only one?

Good question.

In the games that we lost this year, look at average yards per carry for us and for our opponents.  Shockingly against us.  To not have tried some simple variations (...no, I'm not going to list them for the millionth time) was poor execution.

It just was.  We'll never see eye to eye on this, I guess.

 
L.C.
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Posted: 1/19/2014 2:14 PM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
In the games that we lost this year, look at average yards per carry for us and for our opponents.  Shockingly against us.  To not have tried some simple variations (...no, I'm not going to list them for the millionth time) was poor execution.

The worst situation is if another team can stop your key play with a stock defense because then the rest of the offense also won't work. If they have to crowd the safeties up to stop the run, that opens Cochran (think Louisiana-Monroe). If they have to shift the linebackers, that opens a Tight End, or opens up sweeps or bubble screens.

In the end the answer is to fix what is wrong, and make the play work well enough that you force the defense to shift to stop it, or you have to replace the entire offense and build it around some other base play.

Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
We'll never see eye to eye on this, I guess.

I suspect that is true.

 
Speaker of Truth
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Posted: 1/19/2014 2:17 PM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Not really true as a donation to the locker room and that entire project is not recognized by the OBC. And that project was Grooms baby. Will players who bought these lockers, ever see there money? Or will they ever see there lockers?


You don't know what you're talking about. The OBC is actively working/calling on the locker project. I got asked, as did many others. Jason Grooms wasn't on the phone. Walk into the Rhor Room, and there's brochures on the locker project there. To say it's somehow "not recognized" by the OBC is silly. It doesn't count towards your seat donation or parking, but that doesn't mean they don't recognize it or solicit it. Heck, based upon their rules, Bob Walter would have to donate more money just to sit in the Tower Club. (Yes, I agree that's ridiculous)

The question of "will they ever see lockers" is a valid one. I've heard the project is about $500,000...and we're currently $300,000 short.


You do not get OBC credit for donating to the Lockerroom project! So if you are NOT a member after making a $1,000.00 plus donation how does that equate to being recognized?????? Currently all gifts of this type fail to be recognized by the OBC. So maybe you should check your facts.

You both are right.  The Bobcat Club "benefits" are based on the annual fund.  Gifts that are sport specific or for capital projects(Like the locker room and IPF) do not count for annual fund benefits.  They do however count for Bobcat Club points which can be used for post season tickets and other priority items.  Also, often with huge gifts like Walter, some of that commitment is to the annual fund, so he certainly gets those benefits. The OBC is the group actively raising money for OU Athletics, but they certainly rely on Coaches to help them raise funds.  The Locker Room project is one in particular that has leaned heavily on Football because of the method(Locker Donations).  The fund raising has certainly dragged along so the effectiveness of that style is questionable.  Donors like the interaction with coaches, and operations directors often control that access.  At a school like Ohio, all these parties work much closer than at other schools.  With the limited staff everyone has to wear many hats.  

The OBC is certainly not perfect, but it a huge step forward in the right direction with how things have been compared to the old Green and White club.  I know many of the old guard on here think that the GW Club was the best thing in the world, but sadly that is not the case.  I think those would be the same people who think that new flashy uniforms ruin our tradition, and that the Citizens Bank First Down is bad OU....

 
Bcat2
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Posted: 1/19/2014 2:40 PM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
In the games that we lost this year, look at average yards per carry for us and for our opponents. Shockingly against us. To not have tried some simple variations (...no, I'm not going to list them for the millionth time) was poor execution.

The worst situation is if another team can stop your key play with a stock defense because then the rest of the offense also won't work. If they have to crowd the safeties up to stop the run, that opens Cochran (think Louisiana-Monroe). If they have to shift the linebackers, that opens a Tight End, or opens up sweeps or bubble screens.

In the end the answer is to fix what is wrong, and make the play work well enough that you force the defense to shift to stop it, or you have to replace the entire offense and build it around some other base play.

We'll never see eye to eye on this, I guess.

I suspect that is true.
The per play of the bread and butter of the offense needs improvement, though, defense wins championships and allowing 700 more yards rushing than was gained is not the Solich way. I wonder how often that has happened in his career?
Last Edited: 1/19/2014 2:42:23 PM by Bcat2
L.C.
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Posted: 1/19/2014 4:30 PM
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I agree that the defense in general this year was the problem much more than the offense. While the offensive output in 2013 wasn't that much different than prior years, the defensive performance was the worst under Solich.

       Def Yds/Play    Def Rush/play    Pass Effic defense    Sacks
2006       4.9              4.0               106.0             23
2007       5.4              4.5               121.4             26
2008       5.1              4.1               121.7             21
2009       5.1              3.9               108.1             22
2010       5.3              3.5               131.1             24
2011       5.3              4.0               120.1             20
2012       5.4              4.4               121.7             25
2013       5.7              4.6               133.2             36

I don't know is if was a personnel issue, or if the problem was the shift in defensive strategy towards a more aggressive defensive line attempting to penetrate and get TFLs and sacks, versus in the past where the DL primarily attempted to plug things up, and to keep the opposing offensive linemen off the linebackers, allowing the linebackers to make plays. The change in strategy did allow Ohio to get 50% more sacks, but the if the cost was the huge jump in rushing yardage, it wasn't worth it.

Maybe the problem was personnel, maybe it was strategy. Either way I hope they fix it this year.
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Posted: 1/19/2014 5:42 PM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
Honest question, if Albin and Gdowski were co-Coordinators, why did all threads transpire by name of only one?

Good question.
Well, if you carefully compare the two co-OCs, you realize that Albin is just much, much easier to spell.

 
First Street Forever
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Posted: 1/19/2014 6:52 PM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
[AE, Bower, Scott, Jackson, and TT have all been solid.


Saying that AE and King Biscuit Bower Hour were solid is like me saying that my stool was solid after a full night of beer drinking and Taco Bell eating.

(nutty) Lumping those two with the others, whose careers were a bit more firmer and fulfilling, is something I find troubling...





 
Last Edited: 1/19/2014 8:33:25 PM by First Street Forever
Paul Graham
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Posted: 1/19/2014 8:10 PM
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First Street Forever wrote:expand_more
[AE, Bower, Scott, Jackson, and TT have all been solid.


Saying that AE and King Biscuit Bower Hour were solid is like me saying that my stool was solid after a full night of beer drinking and Taco Bell eating.

(nutty) Lumping those two with the others, who's careers were a bit more firmer and fulfilling, is something I find troubling...
 


Future post....

Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
How dare you!!! You ingrate! Don't you understand what Frank has done for this program?! Would you like to go back to the days of Freddie Ray and Ryan Hawk?! WOULD YOU?!
Last Edited: 1/19/2014 8:11:30 PM by Paul Graham
Bcat2
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Posted: 1/20/2014 8:24 AM
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Paul Graham wrote:expand_more
[AE, Bower, Scott, Jackson, and TT have all been solid.


Saying that AE and King Biscuit Bower Hour were solid is like me saying that my stool was solid after a full night of beer drinking and Taco Bell eating.

(nutty) Lumping those two with the others, who's careers were a bit more firmer and fulfilling, is something I find troubling...


Future post....

How dare you!!! You ingrate! Don't you understand what Frank has done for this program?! Would you like to go back to the days of Freddie Ray and Ryan Hawk?! WOULD YOU?!
Note to all. Paul has skills. Somehow he fabricated the "Bcat2 wrote" above. I hope everyone knows I might disagree, but, the name calling is not me. Paul, if you wish to fabricate something and attribute it to me please keep it in the adult.

Respectfully,

Bcat2
L.C.
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Posted: 1/20/2014 9:31 AM
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First Street Forever wrote:expand_more
[AE, Bower, Scott, Jackson, and TT have all been solid.


Saying that AE and King Biscuit Bower Hour were solid is like me saying that my stool was solid after a full night of beer drinking and Taco Bell eating.

(nutty) Lumping those two with the others, whose careers were a bit more firmer and fulfilling, is something I find troubling...

AE had a rough few years at QB, with 3 different systems his first three years, but I thought his Senior season was solid, though you certainly are entitled to disagree. His stats weren't overly impressive, but his winning percentage was good, and he did what was needed when it was needed. As for Bower, I thought he played as well as he was capable of.  My point was that I think Gdowski has done an outstanding job, and has gotten out of the players all he could have, and that during his time there has been steady improvement in QB play. No, I wouldn't want to go back from TT to Bower, but then, that shows the progress over the years.
Paul Graham
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Posted: 1/20/2014 1:15 PM
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Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
[AE, Bower, Scott, Jackson, and TT have all been solid.


Saying that AE and King Biscuit Bower Hour were solid is like me saying that my stool was solid after a full night of beer drinking and Taco Bell eating.

(nutty) Lumping those two with the others, who's careers were a bit more firmer and fulfilling, is something I find troubling...


Future post....

How dare you!!! You ingrate! Don't you understand what Frank has done for this program?! Would you like to go back to the days of Freddie Ray and Ryan Hawk?! WOULD YOU?!


Note to all. Paul has skills. Somehow he fabricated the "Bcat2 wrote" above. I hope everyone knows I might disagree, but, the name calling is not me. Paul, if you wish to fabricate something and attribute it to me please keep it in the adult.

Respectfully,

Bcat2


Sorrz Bcat2, just trying to be humorous. I didn't think it was that bad :)
JSF
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Posted: 1/20/2014 1:55 PM
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Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
[AE, Bower, Scott, Jackson, and TT have all been solid.


Saying that AE and King Biscuit Bower Hour were solid is like me saying that my stool was solid after a full night of beer drinking and Taco Bell eating.

(nutty) Lumping those two with the others, who's careers were a bit more firmer and fulfilling, is something I find troubling...


Future post....

How dare you!!! You ingrate! Don't you understand what Frank has done for this program?! Would you like to go back to the days of Freddie Ray and Ryan Hawk?! WOULD YOU?!


Note to all. Paul has skills. Somehow he fabricated the "Bcat2 wrote" above. I hope everyone knows I might disagree, but, the name calling is not me. Paul, if you wish to fabricate something and attribute it to me please keep it in the adult.

Respectfully,

Bcat2


Thank you for that demonstration of how little respect you have for our intelligence that you think we couldn't figure that out.
D.A.
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Posted: 1/21/2014 11:19 AM
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If your people are being hired, you are probably doing some things right and are likely going to be able to hire/mentor more people who others would like to hire.

If no one wants to hire your people, then you should be worried.

And congrats to Groomsey.  I know I will miss him and I am always happy to see good things happen to OHIO alumni. 
Last Edited: 1/21/2014 11:20:43 AM by D.A.
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 1/21/2014 12:52 PM
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catatonic wrote:expand_more
Honest question, if Albin and Gdowski were co-Coordinators, why did all threads transpire by name of only one?

Good question.
Well, if you carefully compare the two co-OCs, you realize that Albin is just much, much easier to spell.

 


Plus screaming out ALLLBIIIIIIN!!!!!!!!! beings me back to childhood, what with Dave and the Chipmunks.
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Posted: 1/21/2014 4:07 PM
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catfan28 wrote:expand_more
Grooms, while a nice guy who did a good job, isn't much of a factor in on-field performance.


If you think that Grooms didn't have a direct impact on on-field performance, you're sadly mistaken.  Almost every aspect of the program ran through that office.  He's one of the people in Peden most responsible for bringing a big-time way of doing things to Ohio Football.  He's a HUGE loss for the program.
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Posted: 1/22/2014 1:52 AM
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going forward how are we going to determine if the players love football (in the rain...)?
Antonio Pierce
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Posted: 1/22/2014 9:04 AM
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Tick, tock goes the clock.  How long till a new hire?  I have not heard of any speculation which I find to be odd.  Is it possible there are some promotions from within and new hires are minimized?  I personally am glad there are some changes occurring, it will be nice to see some new faces.
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Posted: 1/22/2014 9:58 AM
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Antonio Pierce wrote:expand_more
Tick, tock goes the clock.  How long till a new hire?  I have not heard of any speculation which I find to be odd.  Is it possible there are some promotions from within and new hires are minimized?  I personally am glad there are some changes occurring, it will be nice to see some new faces.


Earlier I speculated about Austin Everson as a candidate to replace Grooms.  Today I reread the bio of Michael George who is currently on staff and I feel he should get a strong look.  Michael George is a really smart guy who's time has come somewhere.  I would not be surprised if Grooms would try to take him with to Vandy.  

http://www.ohiobobcats.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/michael_ge...
Antonio Pierce
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Posted: 1/22/2014 10:17 AM
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Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
Tick, tock goes the clock.  How long till a new hire?  I have not heard of any speculation which I find to be odd.  Is it possible there are some promotions from within and new hires are minimized?  I personally am glad there are some changes occurring, it will be nice to see some new faces.


Earlier I speculated about Austin Everson as a candidate to replace Grooms.  Today I reread the bio of Michael George who is currently on staff and I feel he should get a strong look.  Michael George is a really smart guy who's time has come somewhere.  I would not be surprised if Grooms would try to take him with to Vandy.  

http://www.ohiobobcats.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/michael_ge...


Maybe George and Haines assume a larger role and we see a higher dollar offensive coordinator roll in with the possibility of the new guy becoming the head coach in three or so years.  I wonder if such a transition would be considered with the current staff and AD?
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Posted: 1/22/2014 1:36 PM
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Would Mooney or Rodgers be up for promotions?
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Posted: 1/22/2014 1:55 PM
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True, Rodgers is former Offensive Lineman for Ohio, and also in operations. He might be considered for either Lightner's job or Grooms.  Mooney has been an assistant with the offensive line, so he'd also be a possibility for Lightner's job. The fact that no one has been named indicates to me that Solich is looking at all his options rather than making a hasty decision. I'm sure he will name some competent people once he decides.
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Posted: 1/22/2014 2:08 PM
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All 3 jobs are posted on OhioUniversityJobs.com. Posted today and closes on the 29th.
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Posted: 1/22/2014 3:44 PM
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Scott Woods wrote:expand_more
All 3 jobs are posted on OhioUniversityJobs.com. Posted today and closes on the 29th.



To me, that indicates we have already made some decisions. In the corporate world, you post to check a compliance box even if you already have someone in mind. 

As AP said earlier in this thread, I would love to have the luxury of hiring a coach that has potential to be the next HC when Frank decides he is done. Maybe we already have that person. I don't know. 





 
Athens
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Posted: 1/22/2014 10:24 PM
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Antonio Pierce wrote:expand_more
Tick, tock goes the clock.  How long till a new hire?  I have not heard of any speculation which I find to be odd.  Is it possible there are some promotions from within and new hires are minimized?  I personally am glad there are some changes occurring, it will be nice to see some new faces.


Earlier I speculated about Austin Everson as a candidate to replace Grooms.  Today I reread the bio of Michael George who is currently on staff and I feel he should get a strong look.  Michael George is a really smart guy who's time has come somewhere.  I would not be surprised if Grooms would try to take him with to Vandy.  

http://www.ohiobobcats.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/michael_ge...


Maybe George and Haines assume a larger role and we see a higher dollar offensive coordinator roll in with the possibility of the new guy becoming the head coach in three or so years.  I wonder if such a transition would be considered with the current staff and AD?

I hear of that more in basketball where its not uncommon for coaches to retire out. Assistant promotion to HC is recommended when the program is performing at a high level and continuity is the goal. What I see in Ohio's case is a chance to clean house with a National Coaching search when Frank retires. A name worth considering is Turner Gill who has won a MAC Championship before and 8 years as a D1 Head Coach. Gill is making 400,000 at Liberty so I very much doubt he would agree to a coach in waiting situation as an OC for Ohio. I don't see a way back to the BCS as an HC at 52 for Gill and most definitely not directly from a FCS program. He's out of the price range for most MAC schools to consider. Ohio might be that one mid major school with a fit. 
Last Edited: 1/22/2014 10:57:48 PM by Athens
Paul Graham
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Posted: 1/22/2014 10:58 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
going forward how are we going to determine if the players love football (in the rain...)?


Good point! I guess we'll never know.

On a related note, all the Grooms-lifting that is done during that chant must be hell on the player's backs. Look for fewer injuries next year.
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