Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Beat Minnesota (NT)
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GoCats105
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Posted: 9/21/2015 7:16 AM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
I am not all in to beat Minnesota. I am holding less than 100% players for MAC play. Given that, judgments based upon this next game would not be valid. The Gophers are having their own injury issues and will likely be doing the same thing, protecting players for league play.
This is equally as stupid as the dribble Monroe posts.

We are 3-0 and have a chance to get a win over the Big 10. Hold nothing back. We will worry about MAC play after we beat Minnesota.

Getting to 4-0 is the only objective we need to be worried about.
+10000000000000%

I'll be honest and eat crow. I had no reservations for being 3-0 at this point. In fact, I thought Ohio would barely beat Idaho and get smoked by Marshall. But now that they've beaten Marshall and shown some real progress, you have to go all out in this one. I realize the goal is to win the MAC, but you can't go into this game like it's just another game against a B1G school and "ho-hum who cares if we lose" attitude. Go for the jugular, damnit.

Just ask NIU. Anyone watch that game Saturday? I did. In between watching the Cats on WatchESPN I had the TV on the Huskies/Buckeyes. NIU had the #1 team in the country on the ropes and didn't do a damn thing about it. Three times they punted on 4th down (one late in the game where 99.9999999999% of other coaches would never have punted) when they should have gone for it. Their defense played lights out and caused the precious OSU QBs all kinds of problems and the RBs couldn't hold on to the ball either. Rod Carey took ZERO chances and they still almost won the game. Ultimate "woulda, coulda, shoulda" game for him. He's gonna look back on that later and be like "wow, I blew it."

Toledo and BG already did their part this year. Why not Ohio?
ou79
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Posted: 9/21/2015 8:05 AM
I probably should have put this in a new thread, but I am too lazy so here goes. This week sees us at Minnesota, BG at Purdue, CMU at Michigan State and WMU at the Evil Empire (OSU). Go Bobcats and go MAC!
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Posted: 9/21/2015 10:48 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
bcat2, all you say about the general is correct. However, a member of the military while on active duty has one overriding objective -- follow orders and shut up. You don't publicly criticize the civilian chain of command. If things get so bad that you can't countenance it any longer, the honorable thing is to resign and then to blast the powers that be all you want as a civilian. I believe that several generals in our history have learned the hard way that they must follow orders, whether they like them or not, and keep their mouths shut -- MacArthur and McClellan come to mind. Perhaps it goes with the letter "M." ;-)
This began as a discussion of application of military principles toward the accomplishment of a mission. That Economy of Effects, Sustainment and Security would dictate rest/recovery for those less than 100% this week. I suggested reading Gen McChrysal because he has been a leader in the review and updating of these principles for our times. Politics are politics.
ytownbobcat
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Posted: 9/21/2015 11:02 AM
Is it possible Minnesota isn't actually very good? Could we beat them and still feel like we need to improve for the "meaty" part of our schedule. I agree you take them one at a time but as a fan I can look at BG and NIU as the games that really matter.
By the way we went to 7-0 in 2012 so the idea of saying every week that we are
3-0, 4-0 , 5-0 etc. and its the first time since 2012, is a bit annoying.
The Optimist
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Posted: 9/21/2015 11:20 AM
ytownbobcat wrote:expand_more
Is it possible Minnesota isn't actually very good? Could we beat them and still feel like we need to improve for the "meaty" part of our schedule. I agree you take them one at a time but as a fan I can look at BG and NIU as the games that really matter.
By the way we went to 7-0 in 2012 so the idea of saying every week that we are
3-0, 4-0 , 5-0 etc. and its the first time since 2012, is a bit annoying.

As a fan, I don't look at the BG and NIU games as that much more important than Minnesota. Minnesota is a big game, for different reasons. Yes, Minnesota isn't a part of a MACC. Minnesota is important for the potential bowl game we could play in and for overall program prestige reasons. Also, and most importantly, Minnesota is important to remain undefeated.

As a fan, I want to win a MACC. As a fan, I also want to beat a Big 10 team and I want to be undefeated.

Being undefeated after OOC play feels really good.
Last Edited: 9/21/2015 11:21:13 AM by The Optimist
The Optimist
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Posted: 9/21/2015 11:23 AM
This looks like it could potentially be a winnable game against the Big 10. That has me VERY excited.

Like GoCats105, I initially marked both Marshall and Minnesota as loses. I thought we could be competitive in both games, but I thought both Marshall and Minnesota were going to be very hard games to win. We've lived up to my hopes so far this year. We have a good team.

The potential to be 4-0 is a very big thing.
C Money
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Posted: 9/21/2015 11:35 AM
IMHO, a win over Minnesota would be bigger than the win over Penn State in 2012. Penn State was not very good that season. Minnesota is a dark horse B1G contender.
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 9/21/2015 11:52 AM
C Money wrote:expand_more
IMHO, a win over Minnesota would be bigger than the win over Penn State in 2012. Penn State was not very good that season. Minnesota is a dark horse B1G contender.
Hmmm...After losing to Ohio and Virginia (by 1 pt?), as I recall Penn State went on to finish 8-4.
C Money
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Posted: 9/21/2015 12:18 PM
Mike Johnson wrote:expand_more
IMHO, a win over Minnesota would be bigger than the win over Penn State in 2012. Penn State was not very good that season. Minnesota is a dark horse B1G contender.
Hmmm...After losing to Ohio and Virginia (by 1 pt?), as I recall Penn State went on to finish 8-4.
You are correct...I was thinking they went 6-6 that season.

In any event, I think a win over Minnesota this year would be more impressive than a win over Penn State in 2012. The Penn State win got more media attention than a win over Minnesota would, but that was only because of the Sandusky/Paterno drama.

Minnesota was contending for a B1G division crown last season up until the final week of the season, and I think could very well be in the same position this year given how weak the B1G West appears (no disrespect to the NUPurp, L.C.!).
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Posted: 9/21/2015 2:45 PM
I think Penn State was better in 2012 than Minnesota is this year, but we already played that game, and now we have this one, so let's win it. It's winnable, but won't be easy. A win, though, besides being an important win over the Big Ten, would also be a partial payback for a loss to Jerry Kill in 2011.
Last Edited: 9/21/2015 2:54:16 PM by L.C.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 9/21/2015 2:56 PM
Key to the game: Score more points than Minnesota.
GoCats105
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Posted: 9/21/2015 3:04 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Key to the game: Score more points than Minnesota.
You may be on to something here.
The Optimist
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Posted: 9/21/2015 3:11 PM
Penn State got people excited about the Ohio program in 2012. I think Minnesota can do the same. This is a good football team we are going to face. It would definitely be a quality win.

If our defense comes to play like they have been I think we will be in it. Then we just need to score more points than them, like Monroe said.
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 9/21/2015 5:50 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
bcat2, all you say about the general is correct. However, a member of the military while on active duty has one overriding objective -- follow orders and shut up. You don't publicly criticize the civilian chain of command. If things get so bad that you can't countenance it any longer, the honorable thing is to resign and then to blast the powers that be all you want as a civilian. I believe that several generals in our history have learned the hard way that they must follow orders, whether they like them or not, and keep their mouths shut -- MacArthur and McClellan come to mind. Perhaps it goes with the letter "M." ;-)
Carl, re "follow orders and shut up." I'll offer the same message but with a slightly different "take": "Complete the mission. Excuses not accepted."
L.C.
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Posted: 9/21/2015 6:31 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Key to the game: Score more points than Minnesota.

I expect a defensive battle, so I see the key differently. I think the key will be to keep them from scoring as many as we score. Getting some points with the defense may be needed.
Jeff Johnson
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Posted: 9/21/2015 8:49 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
bcat2, all you say about the general is correct. However, a member of the military while on active duty has one overriding objective -- follow orders and shut up.
and one more...give your commander your best advice, and if he disagrees, salute and say "Yes, SIR"
Jeff Johnson
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Posted: 9/21/2015 8:52 PM
ytownbobcat wrote:expand_more
Is it possible Minnesota isn't actually very good? Could we beat them and still feel like we need to improve for the "meaty" part of our schedule.
After watching the first half of KentState@Minnesota , I thought Ohio really ought to beat Minnesota, but after watching SoutheasterLouisiana@Ohio , I'm not so sure.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 9/21/2015 9:30 PM
Jeff Johnson wrote:expand_more
bcat2, all you say about the general is correct. However, a member of the military while on active duty has one overriding objective -- follow orders and shut up.
and one more...give your commander your best advice, and if he disagrees, salute and say "Yes, SIR"
Yes, I agree with that amendment to my original too terse statement. General George McClellan would have been wise to have followed Lincoln's directive in the Spring of 1862; if he had the war might have been ended two years earlier and much bloodshed avoided. McClellan would have had a "MacArthur moment" and would have been dismissed even earlier (a good thing, IMHO) if a telegraph operator had not deleted two sentences at the end of a telegram to the president, after his army had suffered a defeat on the outskirts of Richmond: "If I save the army now, I tell you plainly that I owe no thanks to you or to any other person in Washington. You have done your best to sacrifice this army." McClellan was a buffoon of a general who had an ego the size of Donald Trump's.
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Posted: 9/21/2015 9:59 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Key to the game: Score more points than Minnesota.
We need to pass this on to the football staff, since they really know nothing about football.
I know you're trying to be funny, but it's gotten real old.
Bcat2
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Posted: 9/21/2015 11:09 PM
Jeff Johnson wrote:expand_more
bcat2, all you say about the general is correct. However, a member of the military while on active duty has one overriding objective -- follow orders and shut up.
and one more...give your commander your best advice, and if he disagrees, salute and say "Yes, SIR"
I started this discussing how the military principles; Economy of Effects, Sustainment and Security would lead me to rest players less than 100%. Do not coaches do this every week by listing players as probable or questionable?

Next mentioning General McChrystal seems to have touched a nerve. President Obama picked him for his fourth star. Probably did so because of an outstanding record of mission accomplishment. I expect there was infighting between the General and members of the administration with moments when the president had to make final decisions. While in command the General fought hard for troops and usually won. However, Generals serve "at the pleasure of the President." Then there was the Rolling Stone's article, the access, etc. Perhaps an Ohio trained journalist might explain to me that this article was business as usual and good journalism.

Finally, a few questions.

What is more important, accomplishment of the mission or the welfare of your troops? Answer. In the military, accomplishment of the mission.

What is more important, winning games or the welfare of OUr players?

Last week I watched a high school JV player knocked out and removed to hospital on a backboard. Fortunately he is back in school, just a hairline fracture in the neck area. I recently found a web page that keeps track of injuries by team. Click the link, scroll down and ask yourself, is this excessive. What are we accomplishing through all this?

http://www.donbest.com/ncaaf/injuries /

Again, what is more important, winning games or the welfare of the players?
Last Edited: 9/21/2015 11:14:39 PM by Bcat2
RSBobcat
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Posted: 9/21/2015 11:29 PM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
bcat2, all you say about the general is correct. However, a member of the military while on active duty has one overriding objective -- follow orders and shut up.
and one more...give your commander your best advice, and if he disagrees, salute and say "Yes, SIR"
I started this discussing how the military principles; Economy of Effects, Sustainment and Security would lead me to rest players less than 100%. Do not coaches do this every week by listing players as probable or questionable?

Next mentioning General McChrystal seems to have touched a nerve. President Obama picked him for his fourth star. Probably did so because of an outstanding record of mission accomplishment. I expect there was infighting between the General and members of the administration with moments when the president had to make final decisions. While in command the General fought hard for troops and usually won. However, Generals serve "at the pleasure of the President." Then there was the Rolling Stone's article, the access, etc. Perhaps an Ohio trained journalist might explain to me that this article was business as usual and good journalism.

Finally, a few questions.

What is more important, accomplishment of the mission or the welfare of your troops? Answer. In the military, accomplishment of the mission.

What is more important, winning games or the welfare of OUr players?

Last week I watched a high school JV player knocked out and removed to hospital on a backboard. Fortunately he is back in school, just a hairline fracture in the neck area. I recently found a web page that keeps track of injuries by team. Click the link, scroll down and ask yourself, is this excessive. What are we accomplishing through all this?

http://www.donbest.com/ncaaf/injuries /

Again, what is more important, winning games or the welfare of the players?
Winning. That's why there are 115+ on the roster.....................
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 9/21/2015 11:45 PM
Bcat2, I apologize if I misunderstood you, but I thought you were saying that Frank should hold back completely healthy players from the Minnesota game just on the fear that they might be injured so that they could be ready for MAC play. I totally disagree with that, and I'm sure Frank does too. However, if you were saying that he shouldn't play guys who are not 100 percent, I would agree with that, but that would also hold true for any league games as well.
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Posted: 9/21/2015 11:58 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Bcat2, I apologize if I misunderstood you, but I thought you were saying that Frank should hold back completely healthy players from the Minnesota game just on the fear that they might be injured so that they could be ready for MAC play. I totally disagree with that, and I'm sure Frank does too. However, if you were saying that he shouldn't play guys who are not 100 percent, I would agree with that, but that would also hold true for any league games as well.
Were I to sit healthy players vs Minn I would never expect to see them return to practice. However, keeping #51 off the field might require leaving him behind altogether. Hope Jovon is healthy, for his own sake. Lowery and McCray may need to watch another game.
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Posted: 9/22/2015 11:31 AM
It would be so sweet to spoil their homecoming weekend. I know we can do it.
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Posted: 9/22/2015 12:31 PM
Did I read that Kent had only three plays in Minn territory the entire game?
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