Ohio Football Topic
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OhioStunter
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Posted: 11/9/2015 6:00 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
All I'm hearing is a lot of general stuff "this has been a problem for awhile" and "things need to change" and so on. What has been going on - Are professors openly racist, does the university apply tougher standards to minorities, do campus businesses shun minority customers? What is happening?

And then, depending on your answer to the first...what should the university have been doing to help the problem?
You beat me to this post. Same here. I've not been able to find any true listing of what led up to this sentiment and eventual action.

But the collaboration of the student union, faculty and football players seems to indicate that something was amiss here and had not been adequately addressed. Whatever that was specifically, I don't know either.
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Posted: 11/9/2015 6:33 PM
I'd like to bring it back to (I think) Alan's initial inquiry. That being posters view on the the more macro situation: college athletes using their equity to impact change. I think this is a game changer. Our society, media, universities have raised the "student"-athlete to a pedestal. Yet athletes have rarely used that pedestal to address social or justice concerns (again, whether you agree with THIS situation is irrelevant). This is one of the first instances (I think of many going forward) where they are taking advantage of the equity afforded them to lend their voice and power to causes. Such a responsibility can not be taken lightly, and I am sure some/many in power may not like this changing dynamic (and will play the, play or we'll take your scholarship card). But that has fleeting power as well - see Leonard Fournette selling jersey for how "powerful" that threat is these days.

There was a shift today...I think. Thoughts?

Alan, sorry if I misrepresent your initial post.
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Posted: 11/9/2015 6:46 PM
cc-cat, what about your boy down there in Charlotte? Not many athletes in our lifetime has had the platform like Michael Jordan, yet he chose/chooses to not get involved in any social issue. Some would argue that his approach has been the wrong one and that he should have continued what Jim Brown and Ali did in their heyday. (And I understand his reasoning - too much endorsement $$)

While not a LeBron James fan, I gained a lot of respect for him last spring when he wore a "Black Lives Matter" t-shirt in pre-game warmups. The easy thing would be for these football players and James to not do anything. I give these athletes credit for standing up for what they feel is wrong because to do nothing is just being part of the problem.
Last Edited: 11/9/2015 6:49:43 PM by bobcatsquared
OhioStunter
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Posted: 11/9/2015 7:51 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
I'd like to bring it back to (I think) Alan's initial inquiry. That being posters view on the the more macro situation: college athletes using their equity to impact change. I think this is a game changer. Our society, media, universities have raised the "student"-athlete to a pedestal. Yet athletes have rarely used that pedestal to address social or justice concerns (again, whether you agree with THIS situation is irrelevant). This is one of the first instances (I think of many going forward) where they are taking advantage of the equity afforded them to lend their voice and power to causes. Such a responsibility can not be taken lightly, and I am sure some/many in power may not like this changing dynamic (and will play the, play or we'll take your scholarship card). But that has fleeting power as well - see Leonard Fournette selling jersey for how "powerful" that threat is these days.

There was a shift today...I think. Thoughts?

Alan, sorry if I misrepresent your initial post.
It is only a matter of time before a powerful movement of athletes threatens to boycott a major event to incur change. We almost saw it with paying players, we saw it with facilities conditions at Grambling, and we saw how it impacted Mizzou and U of I today. It will happen again.
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Posted: 11/9/2015 8:22 PM
Toast wrote:expand_more
A campus group, Concerned Student 1950, which refers to the year the first black student was admitted to the university, has held multiple demonstrations this fall protesting what Missouri graduate student Jonathan L. Butler described as a “slew of racist, sexist, homophobic” incidents on the university’s Columbia, Mo., campus, and Wolfe’s response to them.

A group of black students were rehearsing a skit in early October when a white student climbed onto stage and shouted racial slurs. Protesters blocked the president’s car during the homecoming parade a few days later; he looked detached and did not engage with them as they shouted. Later that month they issued a list of eight demands, including Wolfe’s removal as president.

The group also accused Wolfe of allowing his driver to hit one of the protesters, and of not intervening when the local police department “used excessive force” to deal with the demonstration. Unless Wolfe “acknowledge[s] his white male privilege, recognize that systems of oppression exist, and provide a verbal commitment to fulfilling Concerned Students 1-9-5-0 demands,” the group insisted that he resign.

Apparently, not engaging shouting demonstrators who block traffic is a firing offense in Missouri. Who knew?

Toast, good post, and it's sad that some want to ignore and play down that there has been a problem, just because they hadn't heard about it. Sometimes it takes a brave stand to bring attention. Medgar Evers, The Little Rock Five, Rosa Parks, etc. kudos to Gary Pinkel and his support of his players.

To others who doubt, dig into this, it's a culture, and nothing was being done to change that culture that was the problem.
L.C.
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Posted: 11/9/2015 9:22 PM
McDavis to Missouri?
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Posted: 11/10/2015 7:00 AM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
One thing that struck me as odd was that only the football team took issue with the President.

I would think the men's and women's B.B. teams have a number of blacks on their teams too.
If the situation was as bad as advertised,they shoud have been on board with the football team too.

There seems to be a lot of "selective outrage" with this issue.
The game this weekend is at Arrowhead - a very big deal for the University. Not sure where the basketball team's voice is (they play Winthrop Friday), but the football team's situation provided more weight at this time (per folks in KC).
They were talking about this on the radio this morning.
Based on the comments in the story,the biggest concern with President not resigning was the Arrrowhead Stadium game.They talked about the loss of money (1 million dollars or so) and prestige if the game wasn't played.
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Posted: 11/10/2015 8:46 AM
Hell YEA!

L.C. wrote:expand_more
McDavis to Missouri?
Toast
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Posted: 11/10/2015 9:24 AM
My post was sarcastic...

I in no way support the football players. I think the coach should be fired for supporting such a boycott.

This is only the beginning... we will see this again. It's part of the radical playbook now.



BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
A campus group, Concerned Student 1950, which refers to the year the first black student was admitted to the university, has held multiple demonstrations this fall protesting what Missouri graduate student Jonathan L. Butler described as a “slew of racist, sexist, homophobic” incidents on the university’s Columbia, Mo., campus, and Wolfe’s response to them.

A group of black students were rehearsing a skit in early October when a white student climbed onto stage and shouted racial slurs. Protesters blocked the president’s car during the homecoming parade a few days later; he looked detached and did not engage with them as they shouted. Later that month they issued a list of eight demands, including Wolfe’s removal as president.

The group also accused Wolfe of allowing his driver to hit one of the protesters, and of not intervening when the local police department “used excessive force” to deal with the demonstration. Unless Wolfe “acknowledge[s] his white male privilege, recognize that systems of oppression exist, and provide a verbal commitment to fulfilling Concerned Students 1-9-5-0 demands,” the group insisted that he resign.

Apparently, not engaging shouting demonstrators who block traffic is a firing offense in Missouri. Who knew?

Toast, good post, and it's sad that some want to ignore and play down that there has been a problem, just because they hadn't heard about it. Sometimes it takes a brave stand to bring attention. Medgar Evers, The Little Rock Five, Rosa Parks, etc. kudos to Gary Pinkel and his support of his players.

To others who doubt, dig into this, it's a culture, and nothing was being done to change that culture that was the problem.
Last Edited: 11/10/2015 9:28:41 AM by Toast
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 11/10/2015 9:41 AM
Toast wrote:expand_more
My post was sarcastic...

I in no way support the football players. I think the coach should be fired for supporting such a boycott.

This is only the beginning... we will see this again. It's part of the radical playbook now.



A campus group, Concerned Student 1950, which refers to the year the first black student was admitted to the university, has held multiple demonstrations this fall protesting what Missouri graduate student Jonathan L. Butler described as a “slew of racist, sexist, homophobic” incidents on the university’s Columbia, Mo., campus, and Wolfe’s response to them.

A group of black students were rehearsing a skit in early October when a white student climbed onto stage and shouted racial slurs. Protesters blocked the president’s car during the homecoming parade a few days later; he looked detached and did not engage with them as they shouted. Later that month they issued a list of eight demands, including Wolfe’s removal as president.

The group also accused Wolfe of allowing his driver to hit one of the protesters, and of not intervening when the local police department “used excessive force” to deal with the demonstration. Unless Wolfe “acknowledge[s] his white male privilege, recognize that systems of oppression exist, and provide a verbal commitment to fulfilling Concerned Students 1-9-5-0 demands,” the group insisted that he resign.

Apparently, not engaging shouting demonstrators who block traffic is a firing offense in Missouri. Who knew?

Toast, good post, and it's sad that some want to ignore and play down that there has been a problem, just because they hadn't heard about it. Sometimes it takes a brave stand to bring attention. Medgar Evers, The Little Rock Five, Rosa Parks, etc. kudos to Gary Pinkel and his support of his players.

To others who doubt, dig into this, it's a culture, and nothing was being done to change that culture that was the problem.
The definition of radical gets less and less radical as time goes on. Addressing racism on campus and making minority groups feel welcome and supported is now radical. Cool.

A group of black student athletes feel strongly enough that their university doesn't provide them with the support they feel is warranted that they're willing to take a huge risk by boycotting a game. And you, based on 25 minutes of reading, and no time spent on the campus of the university in question, dismiss their claims as "radical" and call for the firing of anybody who supported said claims.

That's the definition of white privilege. You can't see it, so it must not be a problem worth addressing.
Last Edited: 11/10/2015 9:49:40 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
Kevin Finnegan
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Posted: 11/10/2015 10:43 AM
Not taking a side on this issue because I don't know all of the specifics, but I just wonder what this could lead to with the power of the student-athlete. What would happen if the Alabama football team stood up against Nick Saban, claiming that he was using inappropriate language with the team, subjecting them to unfair work conditions and hours, etc. Would the university fire him, or does that only happen if the candidate is not affiliated with the football team? The president actually seems like an easy target, it's not going to have an immediate negative consequence on the university if he's let go. But the head football coach, he's the one who wins games, brings in endorsement and endowment dollars. Are they subjected to the same scrutiny?
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Posted: 11/10/2015 11:12 AM
I'm curious to know what some of you J-school guys think about this turn of events:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRlRAyulN4o

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/09/mizzou-p...
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Posted: 11/10/2015 11:18 AM
Dr. Melissa Click's bio has some important topics.

https://communication.missouri.edu/faculty/click

"Current research projects involve 50 Shades of Grey readers, the impact of social media in fans’ relationship with Lady Gaga, masculinity and male fans, messages about class and food in reality television programming, and messages about work in children's television programs."
Toast
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Posted: 11/10/2015 11:18 AM
I never said I didn't see problems...

and when I see your response I laugh.

I consider them radical when they do idiocy like this:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/how-c... /

and this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/10/us/university-missouri-...


Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
That's the definition of white privilege. You can't see it, so it must not be a problem worth addressing.
Last Edited: 11/10/2015 11:29:17 AM by Toast
OhioStunter
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Posted: 11/10/2015 11:21 AM
C Money wrote:expand_more
I'm curious to know what some of you J-school guys think about this turn of events:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRlRAyulN4o

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/09/mizzou-p...
Ironic that this happens at one of the top journalism schools. I'm not sure what preventing the media from interviewing protesters really accomplishes. It's a no-win situation -- they don't want to be interviewed, yet if no one from the media interviewed them, I think we'd hear claims that the story is being ignored or their side wasn't being told.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 11/10/2015 11:47 AM
Toast wrote:expand_more
I never said I didn't see problems...

and when I see your response I laugh.

I consider them radical when they do idiocy like this:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/how-c... /

and this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/10/us/university-missouri-...


That's the definition of white privilege. You can't see it, so it must not be a problem worth addressing.
I'm capable of disagreeing with elements of a group, while still seeing the source of their anger as valid. Do I agree with all of their methods? No. Do I agree with every view point of every member of the crowd? Of course not.

But I also think it's completely absurd to discount the source of anger based on the response to that anger. And that's exactly what you're doing. You disagree with the rhetoric about safe spaces and their approach to journalism, and discount the cause as a result.

Are some of their viewpoints radical? Of course. Does that make their desire for a campus free of racist attacks as radical? Nope.
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Posted: 11/10/2015 11:47 AM
OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
I'm curious to know what some of you J-school guys think about this turn of events:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRlRAyulN4o

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/09/mizzou-p...
Ironic that this happens at one of the top journalism schools. I'm not sure what preventing the media from interviewing protesters really accomplishes. It's a no-win situation -- they don't want to be interviewed, yet if no one from the media interviewed them, I think we'd hear claims that the story is being ignored or their side wasn't being told.
With social media, who needs mass media anymore.
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Posted: 11/10/2015 11:49 AM
This is what I call radical:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/09/cop-ki... /


Check out the homecoming protest...

"We want Tim Wolfe to admit to his gross negligence, allowing his driver to hit one of the demonstrators, consenting to the physical violence of bystanders, and lastly refusing to intervene when Columbia Police Department used excessive force with demonstrators. "

Utter nonsense.
Last Edited: 11/10/2015 12:34:00 PM by Toast
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 11/10/2015 11:50 AM
BCLSS: Excellent points and very well laid out.
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Posted: 11/10/2015 11:51 AM
It's a fascinatingly complex time to be a young person. The rise of the internet and social media have helped create a culture where every person has the ability to have their voice heard and to affect change on a scope and scale not seen before. One viral message can create real, positive change in the world.

But there is a dark side to this power and it comes in the form of internet vigilantism and hyper political correctness, as seen in the video with the journalists and the article about what is happening at Yale. With that being said, I have no idea about what is really going on at Mizzou but I will always support a student's right to take a stand for what they believe in, that's one of life's lessons that can learned at college.
Last Edited: 11/10/2015 11:53:19 AM by perimeterpost
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 11/10/2015 12:32 PM
Toast wrote:expand_more
This is what I call radical:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/09/cop-ki... /


Check out the homecoming protest...
So you're response to my statement that I don't have to agree with every viewpoint of people that comprise a movement to understand and find validity in the source of their anger is to. . .point out another viewpoint you disagree with? Interesting strategy.
Toast
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Posted: 11/10/2015 12:35 PM
Frankly dude I don't care what you think.


Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
This is what I call radical:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/09/cop-ki... /


Check out the homecoming protest...
So you're response to my statement that I don't have to agree with every viewpoint of people that comprise a movement to understand and find validity in the source of their anger is to. . .point out another viewpoint you disagree with? Interesting strategy.
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Posted: 11/10/2015 1:24 PM
[QUOTE=Toast] My post was sarcastic...

I in no way support the football players. I think the coach should be fired for supporting such a boycott.

This is only the beginning... we will see this again. It's part of the radical playbook now.



[QUOTE=BillyTheCat] [QUOTE=Toast]

I guess you wouldn't have been part of the Boston tea party either or the movement to grant women the right to vote or the sit-ins to let anyone eat at a Woolworth's lunch counter. Thank God that there were people in America who were willing to and are still willing to do "radical" things.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 11/10/2015 1:37 PM
Toast wrote:expand_more
Frankly dude I don't care what you think.


This is what I call radical:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/09/cop-ki... /


Check out the homecoming protest...
So you're response to my statement that I don't have to agree with every viewpoint of people that comprise a movement to understand and find validity in the source of their anger is to. . .point out another viewpoint you disagree with? Interesting strategy.
Radical.
Toast
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Posted: 11/10/2015 2:53 PM
Tim Wolfe, the president of the University of Missouri system, abruptly resigned. Why? The popular narrative is that his “inadequate” response to a series of racist incidents on campus triggered a massive student backlash, including an unprecedented “strike” by the university’s football team, and he finally caved to the pressure. Yet this explanation collapses under the slightest scrutiny.

The idea that Wolfe presided over a racially insensitive educational empire is a sad joke. A timeline of racial outrages in Columbia is sparse indeed, showing two allegations of racial name-calling (on a campus with 35,000 students) and one disturbing incident in which a swastika was drawn on a dorm wall with human waste.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/426808/university-p...
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