I tend to agree with The Situation that either both data points should be included in the argument, or not included. It is cherry picking to pick only points of data that agree with your opinion, and exclude points that disagree.

Personally I would compare the period 2013-2014 to 2007-2008, since those were both cyclical lows, and I would include 2015 with the data for the next two years, and compare those to 2009-2011, and to 2006, since those periods are cyclical highs. I know that 2016-17 have yet to be played, but as they are played, we can compare them to the past to see if things are still rising, or not.

It is interesting that we are something like 50-1 when leading at halftime under Solich. the only loss is the MACC game - That one aberration is the cause of incredible angst - Had the "1" been any other game, Monroe/Allen and others would be singing Solich's praise. One game....one half, completely defining an argument. Just find it interesting.

Bcat was not using data from 2012 to prove Ohio is trending upward. He's looking at the last 12 games, comparing them to the 2014 season with no wins against teams with a winning record, and therefore concluding Ohio is trending upward.

He only mentions 2012, as I have aswell to show those seasons were not as bad as the cherry picked data would suggest.

Situation, this is what I was referring to:


They were using the 2012 wins to solidify that the program was trending upward.

I don't think there is an omission of success when it comes to acknowledging those wins or the NIU win this year...I think it's the lack of acknowledging the losses too.

NO ONE IS IGNORING THE LOSSES. Bcat clearly explains why he's mentioning games from 2012. Because the Oracles have ommitted those games and are only interested in losses but none of the wins.

LOUD NOISES! I can't speak for "the oracles", but I know the many losses far outweigh the good wins since 2012. That's my point when I respectfully disagree the program is trending up. I'd like to see that reversed. I'd take a crappy inexplicable loss to EMU if it meant we were beating BG, Toledo, WMU & CMU consistently.

So specifically to my point, how does this make Bcat a hypocrit?

Taking down NIU was a good start. However, with the exception of NIU the best MAC teams are taking turns drubbing each other. As Ohio continues to become stronger, trending upward from a cyclical low in 2014 I expect Ohio to eliminate the Buffalo/Minn type losses and to achieve some new higher highs for the program. Credit to L.C. for this, just read it in another post of his. Again, I expect the good MAC teams will continue to drub each other with things like schedule, injuries, breaks and a little luck determining the MACC. Getting back in the fight at the top is the next step.

Let me clear up a few things. Again we were presented with some baggage from the last four years. However, as usual the baggage was light, failing to credit some of the player's best work over the specified period. Inadvertent omissions I am sure. I just wished the discussion to include the very good with the bad. For me to establish how the program is trending I go back only to the Buffalo game of 2014. I see thing getting better while others just keep their death grip on their light and dated baggage. I can't wait to see the 2016 OL once it rounds into form with White outside and A.J. inside, Reid short, Smith & Cope deep. These players deserve so much better from their "fans."

Yes, those two wins were this year.

So were 62-24, 49-14 & 42-17.

You choose to concentrate on what supports your view that the program is trending up.

Akron W
WMU L
UB L
BG L
NIU W

Based on your logic, you should weigh the three losses more than the Akron win because they're more recent.

But you don't. You bend your facts to meet your desire to create an optimistic view of the program while ignoring the big fat elephant in the room.

That's what I mean when I say acknowledge all the facts, not just the positive ones.

Those three embarrassing defeats are similar to what I've seen the past four years in meaningful games.

That's why I'm hesitant to say the program is trending upwards.

We still haven't proved we can consistently compete with the MACs best when it matters most.

We did that in 2009-11. We haven't since.

That's where my concern lies. Am I less of "fan" (as Bcat2 puts it) because I'm not 1000% excited about where we are as a program? No. I'm just as big of a fan as Bcat2 or any of these others who think the program is trending up.

I just have a different viewpoint. Tired of my Ohio fandom being questioned for having a differing opinion on where this program is.

I have said the players deserve better because you consistently present an argument which denigrates their performance past and recent denying by omission their best work.

Find one example of me omitting their best work.

It just kills you to look closely at their not-best work.

I publicly applauded their win vs NIU....admitted my previous comments on Sprague may have been wrong given his last couple performances.

I just choose to be more objective in my grading of this program.

You choose to be more accepting of failure in certain spots.

No problem.

I choose to hold them accountable when they don't perform well.

You want to hand out participation ribbons and celebrate how hard they try.

Oh, well. Agree to disagree