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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: #FireSolich
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Old Man
11/29/2015 7:56 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
"Not the victory but the action; Not the goal but the game; In the deed the glory"
Hartley Burr Alexander
+1000
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Monroe Slavin
11/29/2015 9:18 PM
"Ideas won't keep. Something must be done about them." Alfred North Whitehead, mathematician
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Mark Lembright '85
11/29/2015 10:12 PM
"What, me worry?" Alfred E. Neuman, Mad Magazine
Last Edited: 11/29/2015 10:13:44 PM by Mark Lembright '85
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Bcat2
11/29/2015 10:40 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
"Ideas won't keep. Something must be done about them." Alfred North Whitehead, mathematician
Just what Hitler felt, how ISIS feels. Not all ideas are genius.
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Monroe Slavin
11/30/2015 2:54 AM
Bcat2--something wrong with you?



"There is a distinction between fact and truth. Truth has an element of revelation about it. If something is true, it does more than strike one as merely being so." Lucien Freud, painter



Here, the facts and revelation are the very average or less MAC over the last four years and no MACC in 11.
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Bcat2
11/30/2015 7:03 AM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Bcat2--something wrong with you?



"There is a distinction between fact and truth. Truth has an element of revelation about it. If something is true, it does more than strike one as merely being so." Lucien Freud, painter



Here, the facts and revelation are the very average or less MAC over the last four years and no MACC in 11.
In Missouri they say "Show Me" your "less than average." I will give you "average" in 2014, 6-6 was the 6th best record in the MAC out of 13 teams. 2015's 8-4 ties NIU for a much better third best of 13 and Ohio has scoreboard on NIU.

Monroe, all you have left is "No MACC." Some of us can see that in the next two years Ohio will have the team's best shot at that since 1968.

Time to relax and actually "support" the team.
Last Edited: 11/30/2015 10:39:11 AM by Bcat2
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Casper71
11/30/2015 4:50 PM
I have never been a fire Solich guy. I have been one that said "FS will know when it is time to retire and I hope he is smart enough not to pass that time up. At 5-4 with three games left including NIU, I figured 6-6 or 7-5 MIGHT make FS think about giving it up. The way this team finished and with the Bowl game coming up, I figure he has a bit more of a hop in his step again. I am pretty sure he will be here for at least one more go 'rOUnd.

And, if L.C. and the statistics guys are right, we have a very good chance of winning it next year or the year after. I hope FS can pull it off.

All I can say now, after having a Happy Thanksgiving is "all I want for Christmas is a JC QB that can come right in, run our offense, and play at a very high level"!

Stand Up and Cheer!
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Bcat2
11/30/2015 5:29 PM
Casper71 wrote:expand_more
I have never been a fire Solich guy. I have been one that said "FS will know when it is time to retire and I hope he is smart enough not to pass that time up. At 5-4 with three games left including NIU, I figured 6-6 or 7-5 MIGHT make FS think about giving it up. The way this team finished and with the Bowl game coming up, I figure he has a bit more of a hop in his step again. I am pretty sure he will be here for at least one more go 'rOUnd.

And, if L.C. and the statistics guys are right, we have a very good chance of winning it next year or the year after. I hope FS can pull it off.

All I can say now, after having a Happy Thanksgiving is "all I want for Christmas is a JC QB that can come right in, run our offense, and play at a very high level"!

Stand Up and Cheer!
Sprague, admittedly with the fewest games/attempts, is the #2 rated returning MAC QB in QB Efficiency. He will be in his fifth year in the system. There are some throws to Smith, Reid and Cope I would like to see again. By next fall, after yet another QB battle with Windham Ohio's QBs & WRs will know each other even better than this year. Some third party would serve to reduce the reps of Sprague/Windham with their receivers and have, I feel, a negative impact. JMHO. Now if you are thinking past 2016, for 2017, different discussion entirely.
Last Edited: 11/30/2015 5:33:50 PM by Bcat2
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Casper71
12/1/2015 1:17 PM
Bcat2...I'm just saying that IF we can get a JC QB who is like a Boo or Theo, I would take him in a minute over the returners. JMHO.
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Brian Smith (No, not that one)
12/3/2015 2:14 PM
Spencer Hall on patience:

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/12/3/984220...

Quote:expand_more
Iowa...wore the same shirt until it came back into style.


Quote:expand_more
the idea of being merely good is intolerable for all but a thin sliver of college football programs. Your window for doing that is shorter, yes, but even with what we could call extreme patience you might get 10 years at most. Even then, you'll need some very, very good excuses and a flawless list of extracurriculars to get there, and the vague hope that the long run of trying to execute a few simple things will blossom into something beautiful.
Last Edited: 12/3/2015 2:22:13 PM by Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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allen
12/3/2015 4:25 PM
Iowa got lucky and got a soft schedule and a qb transfer.
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The Situation
12/4/2015 10:47 AM
Brian Smith wrote:expand_more
Spencer Hall on patience:

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/12/3/984220...

Iowa...wore the same shirt until it came back into style.


the idea of being merely good is intolerable for all but a thin sliver of college football programs. Your window for doing that is shorter, yes, but even with what we could call extreme patience you might get 10 years at most. Even then, you'll need some very, very good excuses and a flawless list of extracurriculars to get there, and the vague hope that the long run of trying to execute a few simple things will blossom into something beautiful.
IMHO this article is a must read for anyone who's taken the time to sift all these back and forth posts about the Ohio coaching staff on countless threads.

It might take Monroe the entire off season to finish the whole thing, but if he can stomach it, I would love to read his takeaways from the article.
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El Gato Roberto
12/4/2015 10:57 AM
The Situation wrote:expand_more
Spencer Hall on patience:

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/12/3/984220...

Iowa...wore the same shirt until it came back into style.


the idea of being merely good is intolerable for all but a thin sliver of college football programs. Your window for doing that is shorter, yes, but even with what we could call extreme patience you might get 10 years at most. Even then, you'll need some very, very good excuses and a flawless list of extracurriculars to get there, and the vague hope that the long run of trying to execute a few simple things will blossom into something beautiful.
IMHO this article is a must read for anyone who's taken the time to sift all these back and forth posts about the Ohio coaching staff on countless threads.

It might take Monroe the entire off season to finish the whole thing, but if he can stomach it, I would love to read his takeaways from the article.
]

In another thread I talked about my experience with Iowa fans at the Northwestern game - and how they nit-picked everything the coach did all through the game. It was either "Northwestern gave it to us" or "we were lucky" - I noted that they didn't seem to be able to enjoy the moment. I suspect if/when Sparty beats them - the season will be seen as "a loss" by many over there. I suppose I get it to a certain degree - but eventually I think its good to take time to "smell the roses" - they're undefeated for pete's sake.
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Day Tripper
12/4/2015 11:49 AM
El Gato Roberto wrote:expand_more
Spencer Hall on patience:

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/12/3/984220...

Iowa...wore the same shirt until it came back into style.


the idea of being merely good is intolerable for all but a thin sliver of college football programs. Your window for doing that is shorter, yes, but even with what we could call extreme patience you might get 10 years at most. Even then, you'll need some very, very good excuses and a flawless list of extracurriculars to get there, and the vague hope that the long run of trying to execute a few simple things will blossom into something beautiful.
IMHO this article is a must read for anyone who's taken the time to sift all these back and forth posts about the Ohio coaching staff on countless threads.

It might take Monroe the entire off season to finish the whole thing, but if he can stomach it, I would love to read his takeaways from the article.
]

In another thread I talked about my experience with Iowa fans at the Northwestern game - and how they nit-picked everything the coach did all through the game. It was either "Northwestern gave it to us" or "we were lucky" - I noted that they didn't seem to be able to enjoy the moment. I suspect if/when Sparty beats them - the season will be seen as "a loss" by many over there. I suppose I get it to a certain degree - but eventually I think its good to take time to "smell the roses" - they're undefeated for pete's sake.
Ohio State fans are the worst. It's national championship or bust. If they lose one or two games, they would think the world is coming to an end. Division or Big Ten championship are not lauded, but expected. Oh yes, they expect to win every game by at least 4 TDs.
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bshot44
12/4/2015 11:53 AM
Brian Smith wrote:expand_more
Spencer Hall on patience:

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/12/3/984220...

Iowa...wore the same shirt until it came back into style.


the idea of being merely good is intolerable for all but a thin sliver of college football programs. Your window for doing that is shorter, yes, but even with what we could call extreme patience you might get 10 years at most. Even then, you'll need some very, very good excuses and a flawless list of extracurriculars to get there, and the vague hope that the long run of trying to execute a few simple things will blossom into something beautiful.
Really good article that gives some great perspective. (BTW...I'm a huge Mike Leach guy. Love his style and approach....really happy to seem him succeed again. He totally got screwed at Tech)

Anyhow....while I can see how this can easily apply to Ohio football....there's one huge difference I see.

Mike Leach....54 years old.
Kirk Ferentz....60 years old.
Frank Solich....71 years old.

I'm NOT saying because Frank is 71 that he can't coach or doesn't know what he is doing.....

What I am saying is....how long until his shirt comes back in style? And will he be around long enough to see it come back in style? It very well might...and I hope like hell Frank is here to see it.

But I think that's a valid question when your coach is 71 years old.
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The Situation
12/4/2015 11:54 AM
I wish Frank would say this at a press conference:

SB Nation Article wrote:expand_more
Doing the same thing over and over again might be insanity, or it might be exactly what you need to do, and the fun part is that you'll never know where you are between the two. Get a body of work, and inherit a verified gift and a very real curse. After a certain undefined period of time, you become demonstrably good at your job. And after another undefined period of time, your nine wins becomes someone else's seven wins, the ceiling becomes the floor, and what was once good becomes the new unacceptable.
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The Situation
12/4/2015 11:57 AM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
What I am saying is....how long until his shirt comes back in style? And will he be around long enough to see it come back in style? It very well might...and I hope like hell Frank is here to see it.

But I think that's a valid question when your coach is 71 years old.
I agree it's a valid question for an old coach with a few seasons left in the tank.

Frank's 71, but he's been waiting 10 years. So maybe there's hope that it's just around the corner...
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Casper71
12/4/2015 12:24 PM
I would say most OHIO football fans have learned to be patient...and have been since 1968. For those of you who are younger, you can afford to be REAL patient. For those of us who have been rooting for Ohio since the 60s or 70s (or before), our patience is just wearing a bit thin.

I still ask the question: who thought FS&Co would have won at least one MACC in their first 11 years? I did. And, sorry folks, fact is he hasn't. That doesn't mean he has not been good for Ohio and given us moments. It is just the biggest moment that MAC fans can really ask for has eluded us...after all we are not talking national championship here so one MAC title doesn't seem like too much to ask/hope for. I hope for Frank's (and all of our) sake he is able to get one before he hangs 'em up.

To me it would be nice to have NIU's record over the recent past but I don't demand that. On the other had, I wouldn't want a crappy 11 year record and just one MACC. I would be real happy with our current 11 year record AND JUST ONE MACC.
Last Edited: 12/4/2015 3:49:50 PM by Casper71
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bshot44
12/4/2015 12:31 PM
Casper71 wrote:expand_more
I would say most OHIO football fans have learned to be patient...and have been since 1968. For those of you who are younger, you can afford to be REAL patient. For those of us who have been routing for Ohio since the 60s or 70s (or before), our patience is just wearing a bit thin.

I still ask the question: who thought FS&Co would have won at least one MACC in their first 11 years? I did. And, sorry folks, fact is he hasn't. That doesn't mean he has not been good for Ohio and given us moments. It is just the biggest moment that MAC fans can really ask for has eluded us...after all we are not talking national championship here so one MAC title doesn't seem like too much to ask/hope for. I hope for Frank's (and all of our) sake he is able to get one before he hangs 'em up.

To me it would be nice to have NIU's record over the recent past but I don't demand that. On the other had, I wouldn't want a crappy 11 year record and just one MACC. I would be real happy with our current 11 year record AND JUST ONE MACC.
+100000000000000000000000000000000

I agree 1000%

I'm happy we are able to "argue" about the state of the program on whether we are successful enough.

It's better than the alternative of what we suffered thru pre-Frank.

Ohio Football is relevant...and we're all thankful for that.

Some of us are 100% content with where it's at and what we've accomplished under Frank...and that's fine.

But I echo Casper's thoughts....I wish we did have a MACC or two under Frank (as I'm sure Frank does too).....and I hope he gets at least one before he hangs 'em up. It's really the only thing he's missing on his Ohio resume.

While some are completely content with never winning one....I, for one, expected at least one in the last 11 years...if not more. The opportunity was there (three times at least)....and I hope we get back there. But these last four years make it that much harder...because it feels so far away.

Here's hoping that Frank & Co turn the corner in 2016 and get back to the mountaintop and plant that Attack Cat flag on top of the MAC finally.
Last Edited: 12/4/2015 12:32:13 PM by bshot44
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OhioCatFan
12/4/2015 12:34 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
. . . While some are completely content with never winning one....
Who?
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Mark Lembright '85
12/4/2015 12:43 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
. . . While some are completely content with never winning one....
Who?
To be honest, I think the majority of Ohio alumni probably don't care. I was going to wait until after the season to post the idea as a subject to debate, but as I've said before I don't think its in the DNA of a typical Ohio University alumnus to be passionate about Ohio football. I really don't. Peden Stadium is minute for a reason. Those of us that post on here or those that browse BobcatAttack are the outliers; I think the rest of the alumni are like "eh its football, who cares." Football was not a very huge culture when I was at OU and I think the very vast majority of Ohio alumni who have no idea this website even exists really gives a rat's you-know-what about Ohio football. Maybe I'm wrong on that.
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cc-cat
12/4/2015 12:50 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
. . . While some are completely content with never winning one....
And others won't be content if we win next year because it took too long or we didn't do it with the players they prefer running the plays they deem exciting.

Perhaps we should ignore the fringe on both ends and acknowledge the VAST VAST majority of folks on this board (as well as general fans) are appreciative of what Frank has done for the program and university. Are disappointed, but not obsessed/personally and daily distraught with the lack of MACC, and are excited (and hope) the players and coaching staff can reach the mountain top next year.

I'm also getting real tired of those in the fringe world being frustrated, offended,insulted, and repulsed by those that don't agree 100% with them. Get over it and get over yourselves.
Last Edited: 12/4/2015 1:01:23 PM by cc-cat
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cc-cat
12/4/2015 12:55 PM
Mark, I agree. I posted elsewhere, and still contend that if you asked 1,000 random grads if Frank has ever won a MACC - the majority (or real close to it) would answer "yes" the reasoning... "I've seen them on bowl games" and "they win so much more than when I was there." Like it or not, that is the barometer for most alumni.
Last Edited: 12/4/2015 12:57:08 PM by cc-cat
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bshot44
12/4/2015 1:09 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
. . . While some are completely content with never winning one....
Who?
Here's two...

The Situation wrote:expand_more
Personally I don't ever need to see a conference championship. Therefore, for me, no drought is too long.

I derive enjoyment from following this program in many other ways. And if I was in charge, the conference championship per season coached stat would only be one of multiple similarly weighted criteria.
L.C. wrote:expand_more
And what of the MAC Championship? Would winning it be nice? Sure, I'd like to see them win it, but not for me, for the players. They are the ones working hard, and if they win it, they are the ones that earned it, and who should celebrate it. To me the MACC means little to nothing, personally. Honestly, until Monroe started harping on it every day I never even thought about it because it means so little to me.

Now, I do admit, that if the MACC was like in other sports, such as basketball, and the MACC was a gateway to an automatic qualifying position in a playoff to the National Championship, then I'd care more, a lot more. Since all it gets you is a banner and a mention on page 10 of ESPN, I don't see it as a big deal at all.
Last Edited: 12/4/2015 1:09:54 PM by bshot44
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bshot44
12/4/2015 1:14 PM
Mark Lembright '85 wrote:expand_more
. . . While some are completely content with never winning one....
Who?
To be honest, I think the majority of Ohio alumni probably don't care. I was going to wait until after the season to post the idea as a subject to debate, but as I've said before I don't think its in the DNA of a typical Ohio University alumnus to be passionate about Ohio football. I really don't. Peden Stadium is minute for a reason. Those of us that post on here or those that browse BobcatAttack are the outliers; I think the rest of the alumni are like "eh its football, who cares." Football was not a very huge culture when I was at OU and I think the very vast majority of Ohio alumni who have no idea this website even exists really gives a rat's you-know-what about Ohio football. Maybe I'm wrong on that.
Totally agree with this. Ohio is not a football school...never has...and honestly, probably never will be.

Most alumni don't get caught up in MAC football....

In fact, I'm guessing that most alumni only notice Ohio athletics when they are in the NCAA men's basketball tourney because of the importance that's placed on that and the glitz & glamour that comes with it.

All Bobcats probably noticed the Sweet 16 run...but few probably noticed the three MACC losses.

Just reality. And I'm cool with it.

For me, I love following Ohio football (especially now that it's relevant)...so I place more importance on things like a MACC. I don't ever expect us to be a perennial top 20 program....but I sure think we can be one of the best MAC programs and make a splash nationally every once in a while. I think that's a realistic expectation for this program.
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