Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Skipping bowl games
Page: 3 of 4
mail
OU_Country
12/21/2016 3:19 PM
The facts are that college football, despite its enormous popularity, is a tremendously flawed sport. It's functioning on a financial bubble that's gonna burst, as noted in another thread here, because of the changes in TV. It's a hoax when it comes to true competition because we're still letting the champion be decided by a room full of rich guys decide the four teams that get to play in the *cough, cough* "College Football Playoff". And there are about 35-50 schools out of 128 raking the cash in hand over fist while the rest of FBS subsidizes it through the general fund.

The only bigger sham in the United States of America is our political system and how much we argue between friends about it because one voted for a different person than us.
Last Edited: 12/21/2016 4:33:32 PM by OU_Country
mail
person
Deciduous Forest Cat
12/21/2016 3:48 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
When i first started this thread, I really didn't know exactly how I felt about skipping bowls. After reading all of these posts and this article, this paragraph pretty well sums it up:

The Sun Bowl?

Is that what we’re talking about here? A meaningless, made-for-television exhibition game that delivers a nice paycheck to the boss (Sun Bowl director Bernie Olivas made $158,500 in 2012) and to Stanford University ($2.15 million) but gives nothing to the players besides maybe a PlayStation, a refrigerator magnet and the sweet memory of playing in the Sun Bowl?
If you want to go by your description, again, why single out the Sun Bowl? they are all meaningless, made for television exhibition games. Yes, these poor players. They have to stay in luxury hotels for a week, eat like kings, attend free events and be coddled and catered to. Not saying they do or don't deserve it... it's a nice reward for a good season and being a d1 scholar athlete is hard work, but if you want to talk real $$$, it's a hell of a lot more than a playstation and some headphones.
Last Edited: 12/21/2016 3:49:32 PM by Deciduous Forest Cat
mail
person
Alan Swank
12/21/2016 4:24 PM
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
When i first started this thread, I really didn't know exactly how I felt about skipping bowls. After reading all of these posts and this article, this paragraph pretty well sums it up:

The Sun Bowl?

Is that what we’re talking about here? A meaningless, made-for-television exhibition game that delivers a nice paycheck to the boss (Sun Bowl director Bernie Olivas made $158,500 in 2012) and to Stanford University ($2.15 million) but gives nothing to the players besides maybe a PlayStation, a refrigerator magnet and the sweet memory of playing in the Sun Bowl?
If you want to go by your description, again, why single out the Sun Bowl? they are all meaningless, made for television exhibition games. Yes, these poor players. They have to stay in luxury hotels for a week, eat like kings, attend free events and be coddled and catered to. Not saying they do or don't deserve it... it's a nice reward for a good season and being a d1 scholar athlete is hard work, but if you want to talk real $$$, it's a hell of a lot more than a playstation and some headphones.


I didn't mean to imply anything about the Sun Bowl - that was simply the quote from the article. Should have put it in quotation marks. Reward for a good season - i think you'd be hard pressed to find a coach or player at the college level who would call a .500 season a good season. For that matter, I doubt if the girls who played volleyball at Athens High when I coached there in the 80's and 90's would consider that a good season. So I guess I'm a bit confused by the meaning of your post.
mail
person
colobobcat66
12/21/2016 6:00 PM
And Myles Garrett from Texas A&M, the projected #2 pick, says he's playing in the bowl. He says "it's just money" and that relationships are more important. Good for him, although I can certainly see the other side.
Last Edited: 12/21/2016 6:02:02 PM by colobobcat66
mail
TheBobcatBandit
12/21/2016 7:05 PM
If I were an NFL coach, or any coach. I would want to have players who play to win, not for money.
mail
person
Alan Swank
12/21/2016 7:06 PM
TheBobcatBandit wrote:expand_more
If I were an NFL coach, or any coach. I would want to have players who play to win, not for money.
You can't play to win or for money in the NFL if you can't play.
mail
person
L.C.
12/21/2016 9:32 PM
I do have a question that hasn't been addressed. Given that kids projected as top draft choices can get an insurance policy, so that if they are hurt, they lose nothing, who pays for it? Does the kid have to pay for it out of his future earnings? Does the University pay for it? The Bowl? If not the last one, why not?
mail
person
Alan Swank
12/21/2016 10:31 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
I do have a question that hasn't been addressed. Given that kids projected as top draft choices can get an insurance policy, so that if they are hurt, they lose nothing, who pays for it? Does the kid have to pay for it out of his future earnings? Does the University pay for it? The Bowl? If not the last one, why not?
I would assume the kid has to by NCAA rules.
mail
OhioCatFan
12/21/2016 11:16 PM
Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
When I first read about this I felt that the players were being selfish and not fair to their teammates.

No question its selfish on their part,but,it really isn't much different then a coach taking a job at another school and not coaching his team in their bowl game.
Agree it's no different. But I don't like either thing. They're both a sign of the times: me first.
+1 Both excellent points!
mail
person
L.C.
12/21/2016 11:43 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
I do have a question that hasn't been addressed. Given that kids projected as top draft choices can get an insurance policy, so that if they are hurt, they lose nothing, who pays for it? Does the kid have to pay for it out of his future earnings? Does the University pay for it? The Bowl? If not the last one, why not?
I would assume the kid has to by NCAA rules.

Perhaps, but the NCAA had to make special rules to even allow this, I think about 15 years ago, so I don't know for sure.
mail
mcbin
12/22/2016 1:28 AM
Man, this is a fun discussion thread. So many things I think are awesome/silly/ridiculous/thought provoking.

Selfishly, I'd like to think that this won't affect Ohio as much as other schools, partially because we don't have the ability (apparently) to recruit a Big Ben/Moss/Trent type of player anymore that is sure-fire and will leave early. (I hope I live to regret this statement - although grad transfers probably fit this argument and will burn us sooner than later IMO).

That said...

BayCat wrote:expand_more
If I was offered my dream job and had a chance to significantly improve my salary, I'd be gone in a heartbeat, no matter what commitment I've made to my co-workers. And they would do the same. Sorry if that comes across as selfish, but I've learned that if you don't look out for #1, nobody else will.

You may not like the current state of affairs, but you can't criticize McCaffrey and Fournette for doing what they did. [/QUOTE]Hard to argue with looking out for #1. You're wrong, in that people will criticize, but that comes with the territory. Everything anyone does, anywhere, will be second guessed. But still it's all about #1. I compare it to someone who got a job at 'X' company 35 years ago to one that got one yesterday. Loyalty is a two way street, and I don't really see it much from either side anymore, at least in the workplace.


Your scenario skips the whole part about the guy's education being paid for in return for his participation in such activities. Plus the new stipend, of course.
Ah, the new $2500 per year per kid stipend. I bet our county prosecutor appreciates the $7500 that the athletics department just sent him.

Thanks for bringing your personal vendettas here to this thread. Not relevant here IMO, but I am curious to why so many hate on the Athens prosecutor?!!

The Sun Bowl?

Is that what we’re talking about here? A meaningless, made-for-television exhibition game that delivers a nice paycheck to the boss....

Not sure what you mean by this. Is every bowl except for the playoff games meaningless? Is the Sun bowl the worst? Who gets to be the judge of what is worthy, you? Point taken, but this is one of the original bowls, so it predates the proliferation that so many people hate on. Why is the Sun Bowl so bad?


[QUOTE=bobcat695]
There is a risk/reward component to almost every major life decision.

I think it boils down to this above all. I probably could have quoted this and read nothing else... Did I mention this thread was fun to read?
mail
TheBobcatBandit
12/22/2016 2:05 AM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
If I were an NFL coach, or any coach. I would want to have players who play to win, not for money.
You can't play to win or for money in the NFL if you can't play.
So you shouldn't play so you don't risk injury and can get payed. With that logic I guess all nfl players should sit out the playoffs so they don't risk injury and can lengthen their career, therefor making more money.

I suppose a better more practical example would be if these players were playing for a team like the Browns. 0-14 with no playoffs in site. Do you want a guy who is going to work hard and do everything he can to win or someone who quits and takes the rest of the season off. You're probably gonna be 0-14 this time again next season if you take the later.
Last Edited: 12/22/2016 2:23:29 AM by TheBobcatBandit
mail
person
ShoreCat
12/22/2016 7:32 AM
If you are on the 0-14 Browns, unless your name is Joe Thomas, you better play hard if you want a spot on the team next year. You are also cashing a paycheck. Fournette and McCaffrey are not.

We're ultimately trying to get into the heads of college kids, who are likely 1st round NFL draft picks and are being given advice by potential agents, families, coaches, etc. Tread carefully when you do that. Criticize their decision if you want, but ultimately you should respect their decision even if you disagree with it.

And here's the NFLPA's perspective: http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/12/22/nfl-draft-college-play...
Last Edited: 12/22/2016 8:14:56 AM by ShoreCat
mail
person
Alan Swank
12/22/2016 8:34 AM
Ben, someone else brought up the $2500 payment and i commented on it. As discussed last year, some think it's a good thing and some don't. As for the prosecutor, some on this board question the punishment for certain crimes. Truth be told, while a member of the Athens County Democratic Central Committee, I nominated him to fill an unexpired position. Opinions change though and I haven't been real happy with how he has handled a few high profile cases in the last two years in Athens - decisions that I believe have sent a terrible message to the community. And finally, the Sun Bowl statement was not mine - it was a direct quote from the article that I found to be rather interesting and thought provoking. I'm not happy about blowing a 21 - 4 lead last night either, but don't take it out on me.
mail
mcbin
12/22/2016 10:29 AM
Didn't mean to pick on you specifically Alan.. But I just find it funny that every interesting conversation anymore tends to be twisted to push a different agenda.. Monroe knows most about this. I could have quoted anything he says ever but I've made it a point to skip and bypass his posts most of the time.

The Sun Bowl thing is the most nonsensical IMO though. If they were arguing about the last 10 ESPN created bowls, so be it... Not sure one with the history that the Sun Bowl has works in the argument though.

I was thinking more about the bowl skippers - and another situation like this is NFL players skipping the Pro Bowl. Which has been happening for as long as I can remember. It used to be for 'nursing an injury', but I don't think they even try to hide anymore. So if we look at it in that sense, it's happened for quite a while now.

I didn't even know we blew a lead or much about the game yesterday, only that we lost. :)
mail
person
rpbobcat
12/22/2016 11:01 AM
There was an interesting article on bowl prep in today's The Record.

From what the article said,some coaches consider the pre-bowl practices almost as important in developing underclassmen for the next season as getting ready for the actual bowl game.
mail
OU_Country
12/22/2016 11:24 AM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
There was an interesting article on bowl prep in today's The Record.

From what the article said,some coaches consider the pre-bowl practices almost as important in developing underclassmen for the next season as getting ready for the actual bowl game.
It's probably the only reason some of these coaches get excited about their bowl game.

I don't hide my disdain for the whole of college football. I still support our guys, and will continue to buy tickets, etc. because it's fun. But something has to give in college football and the way things are done. This could just be the start of changes, because I can see this starting a trend where more players say they'd rather save their body and not risk it for a bowl game when their team is already 6-6 playing another team that's 6-6. And I don't blame any player who does this one bit.
mail
OhioStunter
12/22/2016 11:32 AM
Looks like some schools do pay for the policies:

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17328541/...
mail
mcbin
12/22/2016 11:39 AM
OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
Looks like some schools do pay for the policies:

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17328541/...
Here's another one (albeit old) http://www.espn.com/sportsbusiness/news/2003/0106/1488252...

I guess things have changed a bit but it appears that the student athletes or families had to take out/pay for the insurance, but were loaned the funds needed.
mail
person
GoCats105
12/22/2016 11:54 AM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
I do have a question that hasn't been addressed. Given that kids projected as top draft choices can get an insurance policy, so that if they are hurt, they lose nothing, who pays for it? Does the kid have to pay for it out of his future earnings? Does the University pay for it? The Bowl? If not the last one, why not?
I would assume the kid has to by NCAA rules.

Perhaps, but the NCAA had to make special rules to even allow this, I think about 15 years ago, so I don't know for sure.
Even with these insurance policies I bet it's just as hard to collect on it as it is for a guy like me to get a busted car paid for.
mail
OU_Country
12/22/2016 12:25 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
I do have a question that hasn't been addressed. Given that kids projected as top draft choices can get an insurance policy, so that if they are hurt, they lose nothing, who pays for it? Does the kid have to pay for it out of his future earnings? Does the University pay for it? The Bowl? If not the last one, why not?
I would assume the kid has to by NCAA rules.

Perhaps, but the NCAA had to make special rules to even allow this, I think about 15 years ago, so I don't know for sure.
Even with these insurance policies I bet it's just as hard to collect on it as it is for a guy like me to get a busted car paid for.
I would be interested to read a sample policy on one of these. I'd also be curious to know about payouts. For a guy who is a top draft pick, I have to imagine that the policy isn't paying him what he would make in the first NFL contract. I would almost imagine it to be like long term disability insurance, which is usually 60-70% of your income.
mail
person
L.C.
12/22/2016 1:24 PM
As an interesting window into these policies, Jaylon Smith was mentioned as a prime reason for players skipping bowls. He is also mentioned in the article as having received $900,000 from insurance.
mail
person
cc-cat
12/22/2016 1:35 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
As an interesting window into these policies, Jaylon Smith was mentioned as a prime reason for players skipping bowls. He is also mentioned in the article as having received $900,000 from insurance.
Yup - per the article:

"Say Jaylon Smith makes it through last year’s Fiesta Bowl, and goes fourth overall to the Cowboys, who clearly liked him a lot. He’d then be slotted a fully-guaranteed four-year, $24.96 million deal. Post-injury, he was taken 36th by Dallas and signed a four-year, $6.49 million deal with $4.52 million guaranteed. So that’s a loss of at least $18.47 million, and potentially as much $20.44 million."

But he did get $900,000 - or 5% of his loss back. As someone mentioned above, it is like getting money for a wrecked car - pennies on the dollar.
mail
OhioStunter
12/22/2016 1:54 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
As an interesting window into these policies, Jaylon Smith was mentioned as a prime reason for players skipping bowls. He is also mentioned in the article as having received $900,000 from insurance.
Yup - per the article:

"Say Jaylon Smith makes it through last year’s Fiesta Bowl, and goes fourth overall to the Cowboys, who clearly liked him a lot. He’d then be slotted a fully-guaranteed four-year, $24.96 million deal. Post-injury, he was taken 36th by Dallas and signed a four-year, $6.49 million deal with $4.52 million guaranteed. So that’s a loss of at least $18.47 million, and potentially as much $20.44 million."

But he did get $900,000 - or 5% of his loss back. As someone mentioned above, it is like getting money for a wrecked car - pennies on the dollar.
I think I'd prefer the $20.44 million.
mail
person
L.C.
12/22/2016 2:52 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
As an interesting window into these policies, Jaylon Smith was mentioned as a prime reason for players skipping bowls. He is also mentioned in the article as having received $900,000 from insurance.
Yup - per the article:

"Say Jaylon Smith makes it through last year’s Fiesta Bowl, and goes fourth overall to the Cowboys, who clearly liked him a lot. He’d then be slotted a fully-guaranteed four-year, $24.96 million deal. Post-injury, he was taken 36th by Dallas and signed a four-year, $6.49 million deal with $4.52 million guaranteed. So that’s a loss of at least $18.47 million, and potentially as much $20.44 million."

But he did get $900,000 - or 5% of his loss back. As someone mentioned above, it is like getting money for a wrecked car - pennies on the dollar.

Which explains why these policies aren't working to keep the players in bowl games.
Showing Messages: 51 - 75 of 87
MAC News Links



extra small (< 576px)
small (>= 576px)
medium (>= 768px)
large (>= 992px)
x-large (>= 1200px)
xx-large (>= 1400px)