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Topic: Monroe?
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Alan Swank
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Posted: 7/6/2017 2:26 PM
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Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
During the last few years, the number of posts, visitors, and page views to BA has dropped substantially, and that no doubt means BA has a lot less revenue than before, and my guess is that now it is probably losing money.
I would guess that this has nothing to do with Monroe, and more to do with the mundanity of having the same coaching staff and approximately the same results for the last 6 or 7 years.
Paul, most who have been around Ohio Football any length of time think that is fine.
It's exactly this thought that drove Monroe crazy and others too. With the amount of student fees that we've spent since 2005, an occasional championship is expected.
Sir Alan. You conveniently deleted the part about Ohio being third in the MAC current decade behind NIU and Toledo. Note that Ohio currently holds scoreboard over those two. Seems coach Solich still owes you your MACC that you are so entitled. So close last year. You can hold your head high wearing Ohio gear.
Thanks for making my point about third and Monroe's point too. Holds scoreboard? And the Browns won the NFL title - in 1964. No one owes any of us anything and we are not entitled to anything in regards to sporting outcomes. Those are your words and not mine. And I do hold my head high when I wear my OU shirts.

And one last thing - at least we knew who Monroe was which is way more than anyone can say about you.
Last Edited: 7/6/2017 2:36:19 PM by Alan Swank
ShoreCat
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Posted: 7/6/2017 2:29 PM
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"Remember Red, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

Yes, I just threw in a quote from Shawshank to describe Solich. But this is what he's brought to the program for me. Hope. Every year I have hope that we will win a MAC, knowing that at least we will be competitive, we will usually win more games than we lose and that we should go to a bowl game.

Big difference from the days when I hoped we would simply beat Akron or Kent to avoid going winless in the MAC.
Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 7/6/2017 2:56 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
During the last few years, the number of posts, visitors, and page views to BA has dropped substantially, and that no doubt means BA has a lot less revenue than before, and my guess is that now it is probably losing money.
I would guess that this has nothing to do with Monroe, and more to do with the mundanity of having the same coaching staff and approximately the same results for the last 6 or 7 years.
Paul, most who have been around Ohio Football any length of time think that is fine.
It's exactly this thought that drove Monroe crazy and others too. With the amount of student fees that we've spent since 2005, an occasional championship is expected.
There really is little relationship there Alan. You can rant about student fees all you want, but our total football budget is middle of the pack in the conference. I want a MAC title too, but our performance in the conference and nationally far outpaces our budget relative to other schools.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 7/6/2017 3:12 PM
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Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
During the last few years, the number of posts, visitors, and page views to BA has dropped substantially, and that no doubt means BA has a lot less revenue than before, and my guess is that now it is probably losing money.
I would guess that this has nothing to do with Monroe, and more to do with the mundanity of having the same coaching staff and approximately the same results for the last 6 or 7 years.
Paul, most who have been around Ohio Football any length of time think that is fine.
It's exactly this thought that drove Monroe crazy and others too. With the amount of student fees that we've spent since 2005, an occasional championship is expected.
There really is little relationship there Alan. You can rant about student fees all you want, but our total football budget is middle of the pack in the conference. I want a MAC title too, but our performance in the conference and nationally far outpaces our budget relative to other schools.
Not trying to make a point, just providing some information. Really don't know how to interpret this:

https://www.hustlebelt.com/2016/4/18/11454190/midamerican...
Bcat2
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Posted: 7/6/2017 3:45 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
During the last few years, the number of posts, visitors, and page views to BA has dropped substantially, and that no doubt means BA has a lot less revenue than before, and my guess is that now it is probably losing money.
I would guess that this has nothing to do with Monroe, and more to do with the mundanity of having the same coaching staff and approximately the same results for the last 6 or 7 years.
Paul, most who have been around Ohio Football any length of time think that is fine.
It's exactly this thought that drove Monroe crazy and others too. With the amount of student fees that we've spent since 2005, an occasional championship is expected.
There really is little relationship there Alan. You can rant about student fees all you want, but our total football budget is middle of the pack in the conference. I want a MAC title too, but our performance in the conference and nationally far outpaces our budget relative to other schools.
Not trying to make a point, just providing some information. Really don't know how to interpret this:

https://www.hustlebelt.com/2016/4/18/11454190/midamerican...
Anyone else notice the link bottom of article. "Hustle Hall of Fame: Frank Solich." How appropriate. Thanks Alan. I likely would have missed that.

https://www.hustlebelt.com/2017/7/1/15906894/hustle-hall-...

"Mike Schmidt is the other Ohio inductee in the inaugural Class of 2017."
Last Edited: 7/6/2017 4:36:59 PM by Bcat2
L.C.
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Posted: 7/6/2017 4:58 PM
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Brian Smith wrote:expand_more
Messages boards that have and don't have Monroe — his irritating tendencies aside — contributing have been dying for years now.

Now this is an excellent point. BA, from what I can tell, is down about 50% in the last five years. How does that compare to other sports forums?
Robert Fox
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Posted: 7/6/2017 5:10 PM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
BA, from what I can tell, is down about 50% in the last five years.
What are you basing that on? Not saying I disagree. Just curious.
Bcat2
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Posted: 7/6/2017 5:27 PM
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Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
BA, from what I can tell, is down about 50% in the last five years.
What are you basing that on? Not saying I disagree. Just curious.
Robert. I just spent a minute scrolling down to June 2014. Two consecutive pages had threads with 9000+ views. Just lots more views. Is this what we are talking about?
L.C.
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Posted: 7/6/2017 6:22 PM
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You can back through pages, all the way back to the data loss. As I recall, in the first few years there were about 120 pages of threads per year. More recently it is about sixty pages of threads. That's just a rough estimator, of course, but it seems to match my personal perception.
bshot44
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Posted: 7/7/2017 9:44 AM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
During the last few years, the number of posts, visitors, and page views to BA has dropped substantially, and that no doubt means BA has a lot less revenue than before, and my guess is that now it is probably losing money.
I would guess that this has nothing to do with Monroe, and more to do with the mundanity of having the same coaching staff and approximately the same results for the last 6 or 7 years.
Paul, most who have been around Ohio Football any length of time think that is fine.
It's exactly this thought that drove Monroe crazy and others too. With the amount of student fees that we've spent since 2005, an occasional championship is expected.
Sir Alan. You conveniently deleted the part about Ohio being third in the MAC current decade behind NIU and Toledo. Note that Ohio currently holds scoreboard over those two. Seems coach Solich still owes you your MACC that you are so entitled. So close last year. You can hold your head high wearing Ohio gear.
Thanks for making my point about third and Monroe's point too. Holds scoreboard? And the Browns won the NFL title - in 1964. No one owes any of us anything and we are not entitled to anything in regards to sporting outcomes. Those are your words and not mine. And I do hold my head high when I wear my OU shirts.

And one last thing - at least we knew who Monroe was which is way more than anyone can say about you.
Bingo!

bcat2 you are what we like to call an extremist. I don't think anyone on this board or that wears a Bobcat football t-shirt would argue that the results over the past decade haven't been much, much, much better than Ohio football has seen in nearly the last half-century.

But it's missing one pretty big thing .... a MACC.

You can sit there and argue the facts that they have the 3rd best winning percentage of any team in the MAC in the last decade, blah, blah, blah (and that RIDICULOUSLY STUPID "holds scoreboard" comment which might be one of the worst phrases ever uttered on here ... the Braves hold scoreboard on the Nats after last night's win, so they're obviously the better team, right?!?! Just ridiculous.)

Anyhow....the fact is Ohio has ZERO MAC titles in the last decade (and beyond). For people that would like to see one ... that doesn't make them less happy or proud of the results Ohio football has put up in the Solich era. It just means HE HASN'T WON A MACC AND AFTER 12 YEARS IT'S NOT OUT OF THE QUESTION TO GET ONE CONSIDERING EVEN S****Y MIAMI & AKRON HAVE ONE IN THAT TIME SPAN!

Get over this "you're either with us or against us" mentality.

I'm sure if you talk to a majority of Toledo fans, they are more than happy with the results of Rocket football in the last 10+ years .... but I bet a lot of them would really like to see at least one MAC Championship Trophy on display at the Glass Bowl.

Players play for championships. No one is calling them failures for not winning one, but I'm sure if you asked any ex-player I bet their biggest regret is not capturing a MACC during their time at Ohio.

So please...stop cramming this "holds scoreboard" and "Solich still owes you your MACC that you are so entitled" down the throats of those that simply would like to see the team win a title.

You're just as bad as Monroe on the opposite end of the spectrum.

I think we can all agree that Ohio football is in a much better place than it was in 2000. But there are some of us that would just like to see them get over the damn hump and finally win a league title.

Asking for a MACC DOES NOT EQUAL:

Solich is a failure
I hate Ohio football
Bobcat football sucks

Quit acting like it does.

Goodness.

....and my thoughts on the waning support or activity on Bobcat Attack and other message boards ... I chalk it up to the rise in cell phones and social media. This isn't a "mobile-friendly" site and much more people surf the web and what not on their mobile devices now and spend most of their time commenting on Twitter. Just my take.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 7/7/2017 10:27 AM
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bshot44 wrote:expand_more
... Asking for a MACC DOES NOT EQUAL:

Solich is a failure
I hate Ohio football
Bobcat football sucks

...

+1

Many times I don't agree with bshot44, but on this I'm totally in agreement. I, too want a MACC.  I was very upset with the second half NIU meltdown and the almost-come-from-behind WMU loss.  I still think that Solich will get us there, and that he's a darned good coach.  BUT, I do want a MACC.  I'm one of the few on this board who was alive when OHIO won the last one.  So, I can at least remember what it felt like, and it was a good feeling! smiley

fansince49
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Posted: 7/7/2017 11:23 AM
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I, too, was alive when the Bobcats last won a MAC football championship.

It's been a very long wait. Go, Bobcats!!
bshot44
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Posted: 7/7/2017 11:49 AM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
... Asking for a MACC DOES NOT EQUAL:
Solich is a failure
I hate Ohio football
Bobcat football sucks
...

+1
Many times I don't agree with bshot44, but on this I'm totally in agreement. I, too want a MACC. I was very upset with the second half NIU meltdown and the almost-come-from-behind WMU loss. I still think that Solich will get us there, and that he's a darned good coach. BUT, I do want a MACC. I'm one of the few on this board who was alive when OHIO won the last one. So, I can at least remember what it felt like, and it was a good feeling!
I missed by a few years for that MACC.....

And while we might not agree on everything ..... it's cool! That's what makes this message board interesting to me! I don't want to have discussions or conversations all the time with people that are in 100% agreement with everything I think. What is the fun in that?!?
Pataskala
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Posted: 7/7/2017 11:54 AM
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I attribute the decline in posting activity to not being able to insert emoticons.  (failed attempt to insert an emoticon).
LuckySparrow
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Posted: 7/7/2017 12:25 PM
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I think Monroe violated BA's posting policy rules. (http://www.bobcatattack.com/messageboard/topic.asp?FromPa... )

He constantly participated in baiting and derailing perfectly innocuous threads. I'm fine with any opinion he has - but the constant trolling of "no MACC 12 years" became very counterproductive to any type of discussion. He had plenty of opportunities to tone it down and contribute in a meaningful fashion.

edit: He was fine in the basketball forum by the way.
Last Edited: 7/7/2017 12:28:18 PM by LuckySparrow
Buckeye to Bobcat
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Posted: 7/7/2017 1:28 PM
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You know, why haven't we done a Die-Hard night similar to Major League, if you were actually alive for the last MACC you get free admission? We're almost getting into that territory of that happening in terms of age where it doesn't hurt us to let a lot of folks in.
Robert Fox
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Posted: 7/7/2017 1:42 PM
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We might want to distinguish between "alive" and "not old enough to appreciate." I fall into the latter camp.
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Posted: 7/7/2017 2:23 PM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
Under normal circumstances, a person with an extreme point of view would make his own threads, or make his points primarily in relevant threads. Then we could have threads with titles like "Solich is the best coach in the MAC" or "Time for Solich to retire?". Then people interested in one discussion or the other would open those threads, while those not interested would bypass them.

Had this been what happened, I would entirely agree with your point above, but that's not the way it happened. Instead, if someone wanted to talk about Civil war history, or hamburger prices, the thread would get thread-jacked, not to some random, partially related topic like pizza specials, but to a specific, targeted topic.

That made it impossible for anyone to read the forum in any thread without someone being in their face, and without the constant conflict. Many people found that unpleasant. It's not those that argued with Monroe that left, by the way. Most of those people are still here. It's the ones that came here for a pleasant diversion, perhaps contributed to a discussion here or there, while the dropped in, that left. When someone was in their face, in every thread, BA ceased to be a pleasant diversion for them. I bet if you looked at people that used to visit, but who no longer do, most of them have between 50-300 posts.

To me, it's a simple matter of manners. Suppose you had a party at your house every month. Suppose that as soon as each guest arrived, one guest made it a habit to get in their face and rant about some topic, and the same guest did the same thing each month. After awhile, people would stop thinking the parties were fun, and stop coming. That leaves you two choices, really. Stop having parties, or stop inviting that one guest.

Well said LC. I appreciated his passion for Ohio Athletics but his constant hijacking of threads with "No MACC" or political points did get to be very annoying. I know I was on here less lately.

Go Cats!
Paul Graham
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Posted: 7/7/2017 5:03 PM
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Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
During the last few years, the number of posts, visitors, and page views to BA has dropped substantially, and that no doubt means BA has a lot less revenue than before, and my guess is that now it is probably losing money.
I would guess that this has nothing to do with Monroe, and more to do with the mundanity of having the same coaching staff and approximately the same results for the last 6 or 7 years.
Well Paul. Steele provides current decade results for teams. Seems Ohio is third best in the MAC, current decade, behind NIU & Toledo. Paul, most who have been around Ohio Football any length of time think that is fine. It aren't broke. Monroe wore out his welcome. BA is a better place. JMHO.
What I was trying to say is that the football program is in steady state. We can expect a certain level of performance...both in W's/L's and in strategy, style, etc... And this will continue until Solich decides to hang it up.

This was not to say that this is bad. I actually think its pretty good and enjoyed watching the team last year. But this is the current state of Ohio football.

You guys want people to be happy with the consistency that Solich and Co. provide. Fine. But you should be willing to accept the consequences of a relatively sleepy BA and moderately enthusiastic fanbase.
rpbobcat
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Posted: 7/7/2017 7:07 PM
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I can't say for certain why "traffic' at BA is down.
But I do know,from other sites I frequent,that people seem to spend a lot more time using social media like Facebook then "traditional" web sites to follow things they're interested in.
L.C.
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Posted: 7/7/2017 9:08 PM
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Paul Graham wrote:expand_more
What I was trying to say is that the football program is in steady state. We can expect a certain level of performance...both in W's/L's and in strategy, style, etc... And this will continue until Solich decides to hang it up.
...

And this is my primary point of disagreement with you (and some others). I think that Solich and staff do a great job of coaching the players up. I also believe that they do a great job of game planning, and coming up with good strategies that get the most out of the players they have. The hard data supports these things. They consistently rank higher in win percentage than you'd expect from recruiting rankings. Nevertheless, in my opinion, they have been held back by consistently having recruiting rankings in the bottom third of the MAC.

In my opinion, the recruiting classes have been improving dramatically in recent years. They were OK, but nothing special from 2005-2009, then the 2010 class was abysmal. The 2011 class was better on paper, but many players were lost to injury, so that class wasn't great, either. From 2012 to 2017, however, in my opinion each class has been better than the one before it. We shall see how the 2016-17 classes look five years from now, but I think we will look back and see that they were very good.

I believe Solich and staff can coach up these better players, too. If I am right that the classes are getting better each year, then logically we should not be in a steady state. Instead we should see a series of teams where each one is better than the one before it. 2014 was made up primarily of players from the 2010-11 recruiting classes, and was the bottom of the cycle. 2015 was better than 2014, and 2016 was better than 2015 (Monroe would argue that not winning the MAC East, and thus not having the privilege of playing against WMU meant that the 2015 team was better than 2016).

If my observations are correct, then Ohio is NOT in a steady state. Instead we will see that 2017 will be better than 2016, and 2018 will be better than 2017, and 2019 will be better than 2018. Soon enough we shall see if the first part of that is true, so there is no reason to beat this dead horse. Instead we'll let the team show what it can do, and either I will be right, or not.

Here's another prediction, by the way. As they have better athletes in the system, I also expect them to do more varied things, and be less "boring". The reason is the game plan is designed to take advantage of what they have, and the better players they have, the more things those players can do, and do well.

 

Last Edited: 7/7/2017 9:21:14 PM by L.C.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 7/7/2017 10:05 PM
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Thank you bshott 44.
Morris Mound
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Posted: 7/7/2017 10:36 PM
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This thread has devolved into debating the merits of Frank Solich and whether MACC is the only marker of success. It's too late! Monroe has already won! The virus is too deep into our psyche.
Paul Graham
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Posted: 7/8/2017 12:27 AM
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Morris Mound wrote:expand_more
This thread has devolved into debating the merits of Frank Solich and whether MACC is the only marker of success. It's too late! Monroe has already won! The virus is too deep into our psyche.
Yep, same people arguing the same stuff for the last 5 years. Myself included. And we wonder why no one new shows up!
bshot44
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Posted: 7/8/2017 9:25 AM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
What I was trying to say is that the football program is in steady state. We can expect a certain level of performance...both in W's/L's and in strategy, style, etc... And this will continue until Solich decides to hang it up.
...

And this is my primary point of disagreement with you (and some others). I think that Solich and staff do a great job of coaching the players up. I also believe that they do a great job of game planning, and coming up with good strategies that get the most out of the players they have. The hard data supports these things. They consistently rank higher in win percentage than you'd expect from recruiting rankings. Nevertheless, in my opinion, they have been held back by consistently having recruiting rankings in the bottom third of the MAC.

In my opinion, the recruiting classes have been improving dramatically in recent years. They were OK, but nothing special from 2005-2009, then the 2010 class was abysmal. The 2011 class was better on paper, but many players were lost to injury, so that class wasn't great, either. From 2012 to 2017, however, in my opinion each class has been better than the one before it. We shall see how the 2016-17 classes look five years from now, but I think we will look back and see that they were very good.

I believe Solich and staff can coach up these better players, too. If I am right that the classes are getting better each year, then logically we should not be in a steady state. Instead we should see a series of teams where each one is better than the one before it. 2014 was made up primarily of players from the 2010-11 recruiting classes, and was the bottom of the cycle. 2015 was better than 2014, and 2016 was better than 2015 (Monroe would argue that not winning the MAC East, and thus not having the privilege of playing against WMU meant that the 2015 team was better than 2016).

If my observations are correct, then Ohio is NOT in a steady state. Instead we will see that 2017 will be better than 2016, and 2018 will be better than 2017, and 2019 will be better than 2018. Soon enough we shall see if the first part of that is true, so there is no reason to beat this dead horse. Instead we'll let the team show what it can do, and either I will be right, or not.

Here's another prediction, by the way. As they have better athletes in the system, I also expect them to do more varied things, and be less "boring". The reason is the game plan is designed to take advantage of what they have, and the better players they have, the more things those players can do, and do well.
Here's some hard data

Wins by Ohio since 2005

4
9
6
4
9
8
10
9
7
6
8
8

That's 88 wins in 12 yrs

Average of 7.3 wins per (5.6 losses per year) with a highmark of 10 wins 6 years ago and a lowmark of 4 wins 9 years ago

7-5 (closer to 7-6). That's literally just above average football

Yes, a helluva lot better than all 12 year stretches probably in Ohio history.

But 0 league titles and 2 bowl wins in that span

Paul Graham wrote:expand_more
What I was trying to say is that the football program is in steady state. We can expect a certain level of performance...both in W's/L's and in strategy, style, etc... And this will continue until Solich decides to hang it up.

This was not to say that this is bad. I actually think its pretty good and enjoyed watching the team last year. But this is the current state of Ohio football.

You guys want people to be happy with the consistency that Solich and Co. provide. Fine. But you should be willing to accept the consequences of a relatively sleepy BA and moderately enthusiastic fanbase.

I would say this data definitely supports this comment.

We're a steady above-average program.

That's it.
Last Edited: 7/8/2017 9:29:55 AM by bshot44
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