Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Official Game 5 Thread: Bethune-Cookman
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 11/19/2025 11:23 PM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
What returning Bobcat player has shown an improved game through the first five games compared to last season?
Pavs, as you noted, has gotten better. And he was very good during the second half of the season last year. So it's impressive.

bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
Whose game has degraded or been stagnant?
Elliot has been disappointing. Hopefully it's a health issue, but he's 4-15 from the floor and hasn't made a 3 in two games.
Morris Mound
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Posted: 11/19/2025 11:28 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Nah.
Nah is right. Ohio Wesleyan in 1987.
“Worst loss in the last 20 years.” I have some terrible news about how long ago 1987 was. Lol
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 11/20/2025 12:29 AM
OUcat wrote:expand_more
. . .
This rough start will be forgotten if this team is a Top 4 MAC team/contender by the end of January. . . .
This is true, but I for one am starting to think that a top-four place in the MAC is looking less and less likely as this season progresses.
Bobcat1998
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Posted: 11/20/2025 6:04 AM
Jerry86 wrote:expand_more
We gave it a shot, had our best 3 point shooter in for the final possession and was able to get a 3 off. Just didn’t bounce in, wasn’t OUr nite.
Love your optimism but IT WAS A SWAC TEAM! How far have we fallen where moral victories are a thing with a SWAC team? I will forgive the no show in our 3 losses (I guess). But the frigging SWAC!!! Someone tell me why Boals should still have a job tomorrow.
Apparently, you don't follow other conferences. I imagine plenty of opponents say, "we're playing a crappy team from the MAC". I watched B-C play Dayton, and I penciled this in as a Loss of the Bobcats. B-C players more athletic. I hope Simmons improves but his vertical jump is like 3 inches.
I do follow other conferences. I understand Bethune is going to be the class of the SWAC. My issue is that OUr team should strive to be the class of the MAC. The MAC is by far a superior conference to the SWAC. We struggle in the Sun Belt Challenge which is an inferior league. When did we start settling for "almost" beating a SWAC team when we used to expect wins against major conference teams.
M.D.W.S.T
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Posted: 11/20/2025 8:30 AM
Bobcat1998 wrote:expand_more
This is awful. I was a huge critic of Saul so I feel I have to say it: Boals is done here. Not playing JJ Kelly 35 mins a game is malpractice. Not running offense with Elliott...the list goes on.
Bobcat1998 wrote:expand_more
Kelly and Elliott are our only 2 guys with Pavs who could play for Louisville. Let that sink in.
JJ Kelly played 25 minutes and went 1-3 for 2 points.

Elliott started and went 1-8 for 3 points.



Let that sink in.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 11/20/2025 9:21 AM
M.D.W.S.T wrote:expand_more
This is awful. I was a huge critic of Saul so I feel I have to say it: Boals is done here. Not playing JJ Kelly 35 mins a game is malpractice. Not running offense with Elliott...the list goes on.
Kelly and Elliott are our only 2 guys with Pavs who could play for Louisville. Let that sink in.
JJ Kelly played 25 minutes and went 1-3 for 2 points.

Elliott started and went 1-8 for 3 points.



Let that sink in.
Yeah, seriously. Elliott has shown some small flashes of what he might be at some point. But he's not actually shown himself to be a good basketball player at this level yet. We've got people here trying to bench Pavs to give the keys to Elliott, and insisting he'd play for Louisville.

Elliott may well lose rotation minutes for us this year. He's got great athleticism and size for a guard. But he's a bad finisher. His TS% is only .495% in his career so far -- average is ~56%. So far this year is .323.
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Posted: 11/20/2025 9:41 AM
Not sure where all this love came for Elliot. I'm not seeing it, he's been average at best but typically below average with some flashes of athleticism. He's gone anyway if things don't turn around.

These games matter little to none to me. We were picked to finish 4th in the MAC, BC was picked to win their conference. They are a better team than us, right now.
FJC31
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Posted: 11/20/2025 9:42 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I know nobody likes losing at home to a SWAC team, but my feeling is that we probably win this if Breath is healthy, and I was pretty heartened to see Boals move away from Sheldon and go with Pavs/Kelly/Elliot/Hadaway/Simmons.

And if we have two wings that are completely unwilling to shoot from outside, we may as well start testing a Pavs/Kelly or Elliot/Hadaway/Simmons/Breath option,
too.

I'm fine losing tough games to good teams, provided we're trying to find our best lineups and trying new things.
+1. Between Breath out for this and Arkansas State, you have to wonder if the allocations of minutes for the latter is the difference of being 3-2 instead of 1-4.
FJC31
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Posted: 11/20/2025 9:52 AM
This was one of the non-conference wins I thought we'd get, but I agree Breath being out could be the difference.

I was also encouraged to see less minutes go to Sheldon. He doesn't even seem comfortable shooting 3's anymore. He's sort of morphed into a lesser version of Tommy Schmock at this point.

We need to start having the same conversation about Elliot. He's athletic as hell and has spurts of explosiveness, but the numbers just haven't been there yet.

It's becoming more apparent our 6 best players are Pavs, Simmons, Hadaway, Breath, Connors, and Kelly. If Boals isn't prioritizing their minutes over others, then yea, we're going to lose close games like this in conference play.

I don't think it's fair to take away anything from Bethune-Cookman, either. Guys were hitting some big shots when needed.

I'll continue to bang the drum that I think this is Boals most important coaching season. He needs to adapt his own style to fit the roster he's constructed.
Bobcat1998
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Posted: 11/20/2025 10:23 AM
M.D.W.S.T wrote:expand_more
This is awful. I was a huge critic of Saul so I feel I have to say it: Boals is done here. Not playing JJ Kelly 35 mins a game is malpractice. Not running offense with Elliott...the list goes on.
Kelly and Elliott are our only 2 guys with Pavs who could play for Louisville. Let that sink in.
JJ Kelly played 25 minutes and went 1-3 for 2 points.

Elliott started and went 1-8 for 3 points.



Let that sink in.
Thank you for making my point. THEY AREN'T BEING INVOLVED IN THE OFFENSE! Too much backing people down by Simmons and Hadaway or dribbling without purpose by Pavs. No ball movement, no flow.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 11/20/2025 10:42 AM
Bobcat1998 wrote:expand_more
This is awful. I was a huge critic of Saul so I feel I have to say it: Boals is done here. Not playing JJ Kelly 35 mins a game is malpractice. Not running offense with Elliott...the list goes on.
Kelly and Elliott are our only 2 guys with Pavs who could play for Louisville. Let that sink in.
JJ Kelly played 25 minutes and went 1-3 for 2 points.

Elliott started and went 1-8 for 3 points.



Let that sink in.
Thank you for making my point. THEY AREN'T BEING INVOLVED IN THE OFFENSE! Too much backing people down by Simmons and Hadaway or dribbling without purpose by Pavs. No ball movement, no flow.
Elliott used 19% of our possessions last night. His offensive rating was 36. Simmons and Pavs used 28 and 23% respectively, and had O Ratings of 124 and 138.

There's really no logical reason to want more possessions from Elliott right now. He needs to prove he's actually good at something first.

There are a ton of very valid complaints one can make about Boals. Not using Elliott enough isn't one of them.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 11/20/2025 10:42 AM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
. . .I'll continue to bang the drum that I think this is Boals most important coaching season. He needs to adapt his own style to fit the roster he's constructed.
Therein lies the rub . . . it appears the Boals either can't or won't do this.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 11/20/2025 10:49 AM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
It's becoming more apparent our 6 best players are Pavs, Simmons, Hadaway, Breath, Connors, and Kelly. If Boals isn't prioritizing their minutes over others, then yea, we're going to lose close games like this in conference play.

I don't think it's fair to take away anything from Bethune-Cookman, either. Guys were hitting some big shots when needed.

I'll continue to bang the drum that I think this is Boals most important coaching season. He needs to adapt his own style to fit the roster he's constructed.
Very curious why Elmore left and what last year's brief departure was about. He'd unquestionably be in our top 5 this year and would do a lot that we could use. He provided size, ability to guard multiple positions, strong enough shooting, and experience.

I think we all expected that Elliott could step up more than he has (so far, in an admittedly small sample). But sure would be nice to have that experience in the backcourt right now.
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Posted: 11/20/2025 11:32 AM
Elmore left because AJ Brown committed to coming back. 2:weeks later,after Elmore went into the portal, AJ's dad changed his son's mind for him. Lose lose.
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Posted: 11/20/2025 11:38 AM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
This was one of the non-conference wins I thought we'd get, but I agree Breath being out could be the difference.

I was also encouraged to see less minutes go to Sheldon. He doesn't even seem comfortable shooting 3's anymore. He's sort of morphed into a lesser version of Tommy Schmock at this point.
Don't do Tommy S. like that. Remember that Sheldon was a disaster freshman year. He air balled free throws...could not hit from the line. That was before they checked his eyesight. Makes one wonder what Boals saw in him in the first place. Ben Roderick x 3.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 11/20/2025 12:57 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
Elmore left because AJ Brown committed to coming back. 2:weeks later,after Elmore went into the portal, AJ's dad changed his son's mind for him. Lose lose.
Also, presumably, because Sheldon committed to coming back. Feels kind of baffling to me that there was a baseline assumption that a bunch of minutes would be going to Sheldon. Even had AJB come back, you have plenty of minutes for Elmore if you don't play Sheldon much.
shabamon
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Posted: 11/20/2025 1:01 PM
I don't think Elmore is 'the difference' if he stays.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 11/20/2025 2:01 PM
shabamon wrote:expand_more
I don't think Elmore is 'the difference' if he stays.
He makes a difference. Look at the production we have gotten this year from the 2/3. It's bad. We had a guy last year who would give better production. Does he instantly make us a championship team? Nope. Does it call into question Boals' roster management? Yep.
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Posted: 11/20/2025 2:22 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
This was one of the non-conference wins I thought we'd get, but I agree Breath being out could be the difference.

I was also encouraged to see less minutes go to Sheldon. He doesn't even seem comfortable shooting 3's anymore. He's sort of morphed into a lesser version of Tommy Schmock at this point.
Don't do Tommy S. like that. Remember that Sheldon was a disaster freshman year. He air balled free throws...could not hit from the line. That was before they checked his eyesight. Makes one wonder what Boals saw in him in the first place. Ben Roderick x 3.
+1

Said it last March....these are now one year contracts with players in this age of college basketball. Sheldon had no business being on this roster this year. Harsh reality and it makes Boals look really bad. Boals should have told him to walk to free up a scholarship. Sheldon isn't the only problem on this year's roster, but for Boals to have him starting the season at shooting guard is downright criminal and coaching malpractice. He is not a division one college basketball player.
Last Edited: 11/20/2025 2:24:36 PM by FearLeon
OUcat
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Posted: 11/20/2025 4:01 PM
Here is what I'm seeing re: Boals. This is coming from basketball eyes over 50-years old.

Successful coaches have to balance their rosters with players who fit their 'style of play' with a player or two who mirror successful programs in the league they play in.

Shooting dominant teams (Toledo) still need an elite athlete/defender. Physical aggressive teams (Akron) still needs a few top tier shooters.

Motion offense teams (Miami) still need a dominant post player.

You get my drift.

I think Boals is caught in this quandry. He has no Preston/Sears; he has no real strong (Pts/Reb/def) post player (but a solid tandem). He has no real inside-out player (BVP) and so forth.

He doesn't have a Top Tier offensive team (Toledo) or Top Tier defensive team (Kent) to hang his hat on.

This is not to place blame, just acknowledge the challenge at hand. Boals has not established a foundation identity (offense, defense, athletic, skill, physical) that tells everyone about the program.

We know what Toledo is, who Akron is, who Miami is, who Kent is even when their styles of play change. Can't say the same for Ohio.
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Posted: 11/20/2025 5:12 PM
In the season predictions thread, I predicted a 1-6 start where everyone is freaking out by Thanksgiving thinking we are terrible...followed by a very good December and start of conference play. Right now I still feel really good about that assessment actually. I hated to see the 2 home losses against programs we would expect to beat 9 times out of 10, but I thought both looked like good teams that played especially well.

This came down to 3 point shooting, they absolutely destroyed us. The fact we were able to still take it down to the wire is surprising. Our 3 point shooting has to show up in some way, the only silver lining is JP's shot looks more reliable this year. Hopefully Connors, Kelly and EE end up average three point shooters...because what we are doing so far behind the arc isn't gonna work.

Absolutely love JJ Kelly and was happy to see Boals let him earn staying in the game. Will be interesting to see what kind of playing time Boals goes with in Florida.
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Posted: 11/20/2025 5:15 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
In the season predictions thread, I predicted a 1-6 start where everyone is freaking out by Thanksgiving thinking we are terrible...followed by a very good December and start of conference play. Right now I still feel really good about that assessment actually. I hated to see the 2 home losses against programs we would expect to beat 9 times out of 10, but I thought both looked like good teams that played especially well.

They also play George Mason next week... 5-0 currently beating teams by an average of 20 points per game. Only giving up 55.

Settle in folks, it's gonna get ugly around here.
Last Edited: 11/20/2025 5:21:18 PM by M.D.W.S.T
Alan Swank
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Posted: 11/20/2025 7:14 PM
Morris Mound wrote:expand_more
Nah.
Nah is right. Ohio Wesleyan in 1987.
“Worst loss in the last 20 years.” I have some terrible news about how long ago 1987 was. Lol
You left out the last part of the statement.

Is this the worst non conference home loss in the last 20 years. Maybe ever?
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 11/20/2025 8:01 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Is this the worst non conference home loss in the last 20 years. Maybe ever?
I think folks are not properly adapting to how far MAC basketball has fallen. We're a middle of the pack MAC team and we lost to a top of the conference SWAC team. The gulf between those two things just aint what it used to be, and it's certainly not "worst non conference home loss ever."
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Posted: 11/20/2025 8:49 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Is this the worst non conference home loss in the last 20 years. Maybe ever?
I think folks are not properly adapting to how far MAC basketball has fallen. We're a middle of the pack MAC team and we lost to a top of the conference SWAC team. The gulf between those two things just aint what it used to be, and it's certainly not "worst non conference home loss ever."
We can agree on this. 30 years ago we fought for top 10 in conference ranks. Now we fight for relevant status.
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