Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Message to the AD
Page: 3 of 4
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Recovering Journalist
2/10/2022 1:25 PM
NRBearCat wrote:expand_more
so the increase in TV exposure and revenue comes at a cost. As others have indicated, even devoted alums are less likely to make non-Saturday afternoon games. I've had plans to come to this game for more than a month. Pick up a fellow Clevelander at 8, meet our good friend from Logan, head to the game and then hit uptown for an early dinner before heading home. 6:00 start on a Friday kills all of that due to work and family commitments.

Since the TV contracts have expanded for both football and basketball, I've made the trip from Northeast Ohio to Athens far less frequently. Getting to Athens from 3/4 of the State requires a major commitment, whether that be in cost of hotels/travel; taking time off of work; family sacrifices, etc.

That's not complaining, that's reality. And as I inch closer to 50, making those sacrifices for a Friday evening basketball game or Tuesday evening football game in November become more of a struggle.

I'm very thankful for the local fan base and the re-emergence of the Ozone this year, but I can easily see a lot of devoted alums getting lost in this shuffle.
These are totally valid points, and one could argue that the whole MAC is eating its seed corn for TV profits. But it's not a question for one AD, especially one who wasn't even in Athens when the MAC signed the TV deal. It's really a question for the whole conference, and a lot more goes into it than how it affects ticket sales. I'm sure there's elaborate calculus that shows it's worth the conference selling its soul to ESPN in exchange for empty stadiums, weekday football games and Friday night basketball games.

I'm a season ticket holder from Cleveland too, and I have honestly come to view my tickets as more of a donation than something I can reliably enjoy. It's my choice to keep buying them because I want to support the program, but I can understand why some fans are tired of feeling like they're the least-important part of the equation.
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Jeff McKinney
2/10/2022 1:51 PM
Question: Would an 800 pm start Friday make it easier than a 600 pm start?
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SBH
2/10/2022 2:08 PM
Absolutely.
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Andrew Ruck
2/10/2022 2:27 PM
I would much prefer the 8 slot but we seem to always get the 6.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
2/10/2022 2:48 PM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
These are totally valid points, and one could argue that the whole MAC is eating its seed corn for TV profits. But it's not a question for one AD, especially one who wasn't even in Athens when the MAC signed the TV deal. It's really a question for the whole conference, and a lot more goes into it than how it affects ticket sales. I'm sure there's elaborate calculus that shows it's worth the conference selling its soul to ESPN in exchange for empty stadiums, weekday football games and Friday night basketball games.

I'm a season ticket holder from Cleveland too, and I have honestly come to view my tickets as more of a donation than something I can reliably enjoy. It's my choice to keep buying them because I want to support the program, but I can understand why some fans are tired of feeling like they're the least-important part of the equation.
I hate to say it, because it's gonna be harsh, but you all sort of are the least important part of the equation. And that's a very good thing.

If fans who live 200 miles away are an important part of the revenue equation, the revenue equation doesn't add up. I just can't imagine it's a substantial enough piece of the pie to optimize for over TV revenue. Doubly so given that the number of alums in the Cleveland market who will support the program as a result of TV coverage dwarfs the number willing to drive 200 miles each way for a game.

I know that sucks for hardcore fans who want to be able to get to Athens conveniently a few times a year. I feel it in a less acute way, as I have been looking for a weekend game for a couple of years and won't make the flight in otherwise.

But I struggle to see a sound business rationale for optimizing for commuters from 100+ miles away. It's likely to be a small segment of the crowd, and optimizing for TV deals actually serves a much larger portion of the alumni base.
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bobcatsquared
2/10/2022 3:51 PM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
Question: Would an 800 pm start Friday make it easier than a 600 pm start?
Yes
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SBH
2/10/2022 4:56 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
These are totally valid points, and one could argue that the whole MAC is eating its seed corn for TV profits. But it's not a question for one AD, especially one who wasn't even in Athens when the MAC signed the TV deal. It's really a question for the whole conference, and a lot more goes into it than how it affects ticket sales. I'm sure there's elaborate calculus that shows it's worth the conference selling its soul to ESPN in exchange for empty stadiums, weekday football games and Friday night basketball games.

I'm a season ticket holder from Cleveland too, and I have honestly come to view my tickets as more of a donation than something I can reliably enjoy. It's my choice to keep buying them because I want to support the program, but I can understand why some fans are tired of feeling like they're the least-important part of the equation.
I hate to say it, because it's gonna be harsh, but you all sort of are the least important part of the equation. And that's a very good thing.

If fans who live 200 miles away are an important part of the revenue equation, the revenue equation doesn't add up. I just can't imagine it's a substantial enough piece of the pie to optimize for over TV revenue. Doubly so given that the number of alums in the Cleveland market who will support the program as a result of TV coverage dwarfs the number willing to drive 200 miles each way for a game.

I know that sucks for hardcore fans who want to be able to get to Athens conveniently a few times a year. I feel it in a less acute way, as I have been looking for a weekend game for a couple of years and won't make the flight in otherwise.

But I struggle to see a sound business rationale for optimizing for commuters from 100+ miles away. It's likely to be a small segment of the crowd, and optimizing for TV deals actually serves a much larger portion of the alumni base.
Give it away for free and we'll make it up in volume. Sounds like the strategy pursued by newspaper publishers back in the 1990s.

If you know anything about our fundraising, the bucks are coming from the hardcore fans who make it to Athens. Just a fact. If you want to alienate them in hopes that our TV revenue won't be a flash in the pan, well...
Last Edited: 2/10/2022 4:57:52 PM by SBH
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
2/10/2022 5:21 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
These are totally valid points, and one could argue that the whole MAC is eating its seed corn for TV profits. But it's not a question for one AD, especially one who wasn't even in Athens when the MAC signed the TV deal. It's really a question for the whole conference, and a lot more goes into it than how it affects ticket sales. I'm sure there's elaborate calculus that shows it's worth the conference selling its soul to ESPN in exchange for empty stadiums, weekday football games and Friday night basketball games.

I'm a season ticket holder from Cleveland too, and I have honestly come to view my tickets as more of a donation than something I can reliably enjoy. It's my choice to keep buying them because I want to support the program, but I can understand why some fans are tired of feeling like they're the least-important part of the equation.
I hate to say it, because it's gonna be harsh, but you all sort of are the least important part of the equation. And that's a very good thing.

If fans who live 200 miles away are an important part of the revenue equation, the revenue equation doesn't add up. I just can't imagine it's a substantial enough piece of the pie to optimize for over TV revenue. Doubly so given that the number of alums in the Cleveland market who will support the program as a result of TV coverage dwarfs the number willing to drive 200 miles each way for a game.

I know that sucks for hardcore fans who want to be able to get to Athens conveniently a few times a year. I feel it in a less acute way, as I have been looking for a weekend game for a couple of years and won't make the flight in otherwise.

But I struggle to see a sound business rationale for optimizing for commuters from 100+ miles away. It's likely to be a small segment of the crowd, and optimizing for TV deals actually serves a much larger portion of the alumni base.
Give it away for free and we'll make it up in volume. Sounds like the strategy pursued by newspaper publishers back in the 1990s.

If you know anything about our fundraising, the bucks are coming from the hardcore fans who make it to Athens. Just a fact. If you want to alienate them in hopes that our TV revenue won't be a flash in the pan, well...
You think we don't get paid for the TV deal? I'm not following the "give it away for free" piece.

As for the fact, I don't really know much about OU fundraising. I saw some data that we were in the bottom quarter of the MAC in alumni giving, but haven't seen data on who gives. Anything you can share?
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OU_Country
2/10/2022 7:11 PM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
Question: Would an 800 pm start Friday make it easier than a 600 pm start?
100%. I could work almost a full day. As it is right now, I have to take a half day so I can come home for my dog children, feed/play with them for a hour or so, and then leave them again for 6-7 hours.
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BillyTheCat
2/10/2022 10:42 PM
Do we have any PR/Media promotion types who could help here? Get some fresh ideas, help negotiate the contracts and make it worth everyone’s time and effort?
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ShoreCat
2/11/2022 7:19 AM
I completely get that alums like myself willing to travel 200 miles for a home game is dwarfed by TV and TV revenue. But I think it's very, very dangerous to alienate a devoted part of your fanbase, no matter how small that is.

Anybody who reads this board and/or posts has a strong connection in some way to this university. Many others have expressed their frustration about the accommodations made to appease the almighty "TV" versus actually getting alums back to campus and in the stands. At what point do I just say, "To hell with it?" You are constantly putting barriers in my way to support this program, so why should I continue?

As previously indicated, I had plans for next week's game made more than a month ago for a 50th birthday celebration with my 2 best OU friends. Those plans are gone now. In the short-term, this leaves a very, very bad taste in my mouth. In the long-term, who knows? This could very well continue my trend of attending fewer and fewer games in person.

The more i think about, the more a letter to the AD may be necessary. The university needs to know that some components of the TV deals that are signed are having an impact on fan participation. Give us a little. That's all I'm asking for.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
2/11/2022 7:38 AM
NRBearCat wrote:expand_more
I completely get that alums like myself willing to travel 200 miles for a home game is dwarfed by TV and TV revenue. But I think it's very, very dangerous to alienate a devoted part of your fanbase, no matter how small that is.

Anybody who reads this board and/or posts has a strong connection in some way to this university. Many others have expressed their frustration about the accommodations made to appease the almighty "TV" versus actually getting alums back to campus and in the stands. At what point do I just say, "To hell with it?" You are constantly putting barriers in my way to support this program, so why should I continue?

As previously indicated, I had plans for next week's game made more than a month ago for a 50th birthday celebration with my 2 best OU friends. Those plans are gone now. In the short-term, this leaves a very, very bad taste in my mouth. In the long-term, who knows? This could very well continue my trend of attending fewer and fewer games in person.

The more i think about, the more a letter to the AD may be necessary. The university needs to know that some components of the TV deals that are signed are having an impact on fan participation. Give us a little. That's all I'm asking for.
Truthfully, I think it's on alums to think about this more rationally. But old grads and rational aren't likely to intersect anytime, unfortunately. And that's not a dig that's specific to OU. Just the reality of people who feel a deep connection to something they're not actually all that involved in anymore, but still feel an emotional connection to.

There are far, far more alums who are catered to by TV deals than there are alums whose trips to Athens were disrupted by a game time switch. By orders of magnitude. Throwing away one to appease the other serves the very narrow interests of a small, vocal minority over making the rational decision we all understand makes the most sense for the program. Foot stomping and letters and threats to stop supporting the program are as empty as they are ineffective. Unless you pony up big donor money, unfortunately your opinion just isn't able to be prioritized.

The reality is that if we weren't on TV at all, and the AD explained that the reason was so we could maintain two more Saturday home games, the same people complaining now would be screaming for her head because we're throwing away national exposure, recruiting cred, and revenue.

Boals has been very public about the scheduling difficulties a mid-major power, fresh off a tournament win, faces. That the schedule wasn't as good as it could be is in part a reality of our circumstances, and getting upset about those circumstances and threatening to stop supporting the University seems counterproductive to the outcome everybody wants.
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bobcatsquared
2/11/2022 7:45 AM
No threat, BLSS. I did not get season tickets this basketball season specifically for the reasons others have stated in this thread.

And no need for a 300-plus word diatribe about how inconsequential that decision is. I understand the dynamics involved, as I'm sure SBH, NRBearcat and surely others do as well.

Edit: should have added no need for juvenile, sarcastic, add-nothing-of-value-to-the-discussion dribble from "Billy".
Last Edited: 2/11/2022 9:22:17 AM by bobcatsquared
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BillyTheCat
2/11/2022 8:42 AM
Can you imagine the outrage at Duke and UNC and all those big time programs for all the inconveniences that TV brings them. I'm amazed they have any fan base.
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SBH
2/11/2022 8:45 AM
I give very generously to the department. I'll put my donations against yours anytime, Sense of Shame. Yet I haven't received the courtesy of a reply to my 3-4 emails to the AD over the past 2 years. And they're not negative emails, either - simply constructive suggestions.

As far as "old alums," here's a startling fact for you: Our number one source of football program donations is a group of alums who played for Bill Hess. Piss off the oldsters at your peril. We're the folks who were consistently called to help fund the fieldhouse (check), academic center (check), Bball locker room (check), multiple updates to the football locker room (check), "Fill the Convo" promo during the COVID-shortened season (check). I believe our voices deserve to be heard. Eliminate national TV opps? No. Simply erect some guardrails to ensure we have more than one Saturday home game.
Last Edited: 2/11/2022 8:57:14 AM by SBH
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BillyTheCat
2/11/2022 8:50 AM
In the meantime, would people please get off the lawn!
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SBH
2/11/2022 8:52 AM
Unhappiest "contributor" to this board. As some might know, I truly despise our former president but gain great solace in knowing that he's a deeply unhappy person - every minute, every day.

I feel the same way about "Billy" here.
Last Edited: 2/11/2022 8:57:49 AM by SBH
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BillyTheCat
2/11/2022 9:00 AM
SBH wrote:expand_more
Unhappiest "contributor" to this board. As some might know, I truly despise our former president but gain great solace in knowing that he's a deeply unhappy person - every minute, every day.

I feel the same way about "Billy" here.
Only problem is Billy is a very happy person! A person who has learned to not let little things get to him, and enjoy the ride of success.
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Andrew Ruck
2/11/2022 9:05 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Unhappiest "contributor" to this board. As some might know, I truly despise our former president but gain great solace in knowing that he's a deeply unhappy person - every minute, every day.

I feel the same way about "Billy" here.
Only problem is Billy is a very happy person! A person who has learned to not let little things get to him, and enjoy the ride of success.
Billy has also learned to relentlessly troll and sarcastically mock reasonable discussion.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
2/11/2022 9:06 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Can you imagine the outrage at Duke and UNC and all those big time programs for all the inconveniences that TV brings them. I'm amazed they have any fan base.
This is not even close to the same thing and you know it. Those schools make their schedules at the best possible times then espn moves heaven and earth to televise their games. Then espn pays them more money to allow them to create additional premier matchips in premier time slots.

I don't want to legislate excuses for individual fans, but we live in a world where it's on TV or it didn't happen.
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Recovering Journalist
2/11/2022 9:25 AM
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
Can you imagine the outrage at Duke and UNC and all those big time programs for all the inconveniences that TV brings them. I'm amazed they have any fan base.
This is not even close to the same thing and you know it. Those schools make their schedules at the best possible times then espn moves heaven and earth to televise their games. Then espn pays them more money to allow them to create additional premier matchips in premier time slots.

I don't want to legislate excuses for individual fans, but we live in a world where it's on TV or it didn't happen.
It's a pretty rich irony too because BTC would be the first in line to ridicule anyone else who compared anything related to Ohio athletics to any P5 program.
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cc-cat
2/11/2022 9:26 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Can you imagine the outrage at Duke and UNC and all those big time programs for all the inconveniences that TV brings them. I'm amazed they have any fan base.
Yes - I can imagine the Duke and UNC fanbase if they had moved the Duke-UNC game to Dec 23 at 10:00 pm because of TV.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
2/11/2022 10:00 AM
SBH wrote:expand_more
I give very generously to the department. I'll put my donations against yours anytime, Sense of Shame. Yet I haven't received the courtesy of a reply to my 3-4 emails to the AD over the past 2 years. And they're not negative emails, either - simply constructive suggestions.

As far as "old alums," here's a startling fact for you: Our number one source of football program donations is a group of alums who played for Bill Hess. Piss off the oldsters at your peril. We're the folks who were consistently called to help fund the fieldhouse (check), academic center (check), Bball locker room (check), multiple updates to the football locker room (check), "Fill the Convo" promo during the COVID-shortened season (check). I believe our voices deserve to be heard. Eliminate national TV opps? No. Simply erect some guardrails to ensure we have more than one Saturday home game.
I've never donated a cent and don't intend to. Giving money to OU athletics just isn't something I can bring myself to prioritize, in the scheme of causes my money can go to. So I have no doubt that you give more than I do, and didn't imply otherwise.

There's nothing startling about old alums being donors. There's also nothing startling about old alums being pissed. The point is the old alums are always pissed. You yourself just posted about how much joy you get out of the fact that our last President is, presumably, a sad person. No offense, my dude, but that's not super rational. I get the emotional connection people feel for their alma maters, the desire to see them succeed, and the desire to aid in that. I think it's admirable. But I also think there's plenty of opportunity for self reflection amongst said alums, and that there are times when their anger isn't super rational. That was my only point.

We can all agree schedule changes and lack of Saturday games suck. I just happen to think there are a whole lot of reasons for that and it's a complex thing to solve. I don't think asking old grads to be a bit more rational and a bit less emotional is crazy.
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