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Topic: Score and Attendance
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Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 1/9/2011 10:37 PM
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We've been through this ad nauseum.  The figures reported are "tickets sold".  No one states that there were actually that many people in the house. 

Are you also arguing that the figures given exaggerate even the tickets sold? 

I would say actual people in the house today between 7500-8000.  Good crowd. 
PutnamField
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Posted: 1/9/2011 10:54 PM
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Bobcat Dragon wrote:expand_more
Yeah, Alan, there's nothing wrong with a large, public institution lying repeatedly in order to enhance its reputation and mask drops in attendance. I, for one, am glad that these two J-school posters have their heads screwed on right and will rush to defend the battlestar against the forces of truth and accuracy. Stop harshing their mellow. Let's get these guys into the public relations track in Scripps ASAP.


What in the world?


OK, I don't really know what you and anorris are majoring in (besides OU sports). Was pretty sure you'd each mentioned being under the College of Communication umbrella. Don't understand why you go out of your ways to bash people who point out inflated attendance figures. Tried to make a joke about budding journalist types bashing people who point out the truth. Capiche?
PutnamField
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Posted: 1/9/2011 11:12 PM
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Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
We've been through this ad nauseum.  The figures reported are "tickets sold".  No one states that there were actually that many people in the house. 

Are you also arguing that the figures given exaggerate even the tickets sold? 

I would say actual people in the house today between 7500-8000.  Good crowd. 


That's a good crowd these days. It wouldn't have been before a few years ago.

Do they announce it as "tickets sold" or "today's attendance"? If it's the former, I retract my use of the word "lying" and apologize for overstating things.

Anyone care to speculate why 2,000 people would buy tickets but not show up? 

I'm sure plenty of schools massage the numbers, and I don't think it's scandalous or anything. It just gets irritating when people who don't have a long view insist on haranguing people who do for pointing out aspects of reality.

 

OhioCatFan
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Posted: 1/9/2011 11:17 PM
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PutnamField wrote:expand_more
 
. . .
I would say actual people in the house today between 7500-8000.  Good crowd. 


That's a good crowd these days. It wouldn't have been before a few years ago. . . .


Exactly right, PF.  You only need to look back to the Larry Hunter era.  Those numbers would have been good crowds on a weekday when we had a good team visiting.  Weekend big games were getting 10,000+ of actual butts in the seats. 
anorris
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Posted: 1/10/2011 12:02 AM
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Its become an every game thing between him and JCW.  We get it.  We don't report butts-in-seats numbers in the box score.  I don't need reminded after every home game.

As for the bowl game numbers Alan mentions (which weren't the topic of my post), I'd be very interested in a good breakdown in that department.

Also, not in the J-School, though I have many friends who are.  I am in the College of Communication, though.

As far as harshing my mellow, the most mind-altering substance to ever enter my body is Mountain Dew, and I intend for that to remain the case, thanks.
The Optimist
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Posted: 1/10/2011 6:33 AM
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I'm a business major, and I also don't understand why such a big deal is made... It was a good crowd, and like every other school out there we reported tickets sold.
JSF
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Posted: 1/10/2011 7:10 AM
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PutnamField wrote:expand_more
Yeah, Alan, there's nothing wrong with a large, public institution lying repeatedly in order to enhance its reputation and mask drops in attendance. I, for one, am glad that these two J-school posters have their heads screwed on right and will rush to defend the battlestar against the forces of truth and accuracy. Stop harshing their mellow. Let's get these guys into the public relations track in Scripps ASAP.


What in the world?


OK, I don't really know what you and anorris are majoring in (besides OU sports). Was pretty sure you'd each mentioned being under the College of Communication umbrella. Don't understand why you go out of your ways to bash people who point out inflated attendance figures. Tried to make a joke about budding journalist types bashing people who point out the truth. Capiche?


Oh, I got it.  That was just my reaction.  I honestly have no idea how you think I'm going out of my way to bash people who talk about inflated attendance figures, especially because it's Alan who goes out of his way to bring it up, and he's been doing it for years.  Game after game after game in some strange crusade.  He never has any proof, just personal estimates on size that disagree with reported figures.  I'm pretty sure this is the first time I said anything about it, and the only reason I even did so is because he said it was creating a drama.  The only drama is in Alan's head.  He manufactured it, and it's weird.    As others have pointed out, we're playing by the rules, so, no, we're not lying.
Dan's Mom
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Posted: 1/10/2011 8:18 AM
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      1)   We purchase two season tickets to football and basketball to support the programs although we don't make many trips down to the games.
            Would you rather we didn't?  Are we helping in a lie?   (sarcasm font)
      2)   On TV the crowd looked great.  The student section looked the greatest.  There were very few times when the camera angle allowed some of the highest upper deck empty seats to be seen.   It looked really big time on TV.  (happy font)
     3)   It was a fun, exciting game to watch and listen to.  The commentators liked the crowd and the student section - mentioned OHIO being a tough place to play in terms of the fan support.  "Sit down Charlie" could be heard, etc. (happy font)

        
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Posted: 1/10/2011 8:45 AM
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Exactly, Dan's Mom.  It would be nice if everyone who had a ticket showed up for every game but thank heavens they continue to buy them when they can't. 

Charlie played to the crowd throughout.  It's amazing that he can enjoy what he is doing so much and still produce winning in-game decisions.  I was thinking throughout the game how if I ever had a chance like that I would want to play for Charlie versus almost anyone else I can think of.  Of course, that's the long experience talking and not the hoop dreams anymore.
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 1/10/2011 8:57 AM
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You guys are missing the key point here...That I only missed the attendane by 83 people...Correctly predicted the Miami victory...and my point totals were close to what the end of regulation was.  You guys can continue to explain to Swank for the 7,000th time that they report tickets SOLD, or you can discuss how awesome I am.  Your choice.
bobcat695
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Posted: 1/10/2011 8:58 AM
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PutnamField wrote:expand_more

Anyone care to speculate why 2,000 people would buy tickets but not show up?  



I have 8 season tickets for basketball and 17 for football.  I buy extra to support the program and about 1/3 of the games my boys bring friends who would never have the opportunity to see D1 sports live.  I also bring clients occasionally that enjoy coming to 1-2 games each year.  Yesterday was a family outing and I only used 4 of the 8.  Maybe I could leave some cardboard cutouts of us in our seats that are unused so it would look like a more accurate number. 

Last Edited: 1/10/2011 8:59:00 AM by bobcat695
JSF
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Posted: 1/10/2011 9:19 AM
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Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
You guys are missing the key point here...That I only missed the attendane by 83 people...Correctly predicted the Miami victory...and my point totals were close to what the end of regulation was.  You guys can continue to explain to Swank for the 7,000th time that they report tickets SOLD, or you can discuss how awesome I am.  Your choice.


This would have been a much less depressing choice for your Facebook status last night.
Bobcat Love
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Posted: 1/10/2011 9:32 AM
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Ruck you are awesome.

How long before we have Andrew Ruck, CPA vs. Monroe Slavin CPA in a thread?

Again, did the California Accounting Standards Board strip Monroe of his CPA designation?

The man giveth to Ruck and taketh away from Monroe....
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Posted: 1/10/2011 9:42 AM
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Dragon - It was a great game and I had a great time, but I was pretty depressed about it.  Still scared to post game thoughts because I'm too fired up about it.  For now I'll just say this season has been nothing short of heartbreaking to date.

Love - I can think of nothing more compelling than me and Slavin duking it out over hot accounting topics.  I suggest fair value accounting and convergence to international accounting standards as the first round topic.
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Posted: 1/10/2011 9:48 AM
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Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
We've been through this ad nauseum.  The figures reported are "tickets sold".  No one states that there were actually that many people in the house. 

Are you also arguing that the figures given exaggerate even the tickets sold? 

I would say actual people in the house today between 7500-8000.  Good crowd. 


Jeff, I will call dookie on this, these are NOT tickets sold these are arbitrary numbers that are pulled up (as evidence of the football attendance numbers).  I would compare this to a truck driver who keeps two sets of books, one legit and one for the not so serious inspection of his miles and hours.

As for this topic, it is always fun to guess how inflated we are going to make things.
intrpdtrvlr
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Posted: 1/10/2011 9:51 AM
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Dan's Mom wrote:expand_more
      1)   We purchase two season tickets to football and basketball to support the programs although we don't make many trips down to the games.
            Would you rather we didn't?  Are we helping in a lie?   (sarcasm font)
      2)   On TV the crowd looked great.  The student section looked the greatest.  There were very few times when the camera angle allowed some of the highest upper deck empty seats to be seen.   It looked really big time on TV.  (happy font)
     3)   It was a fun, exciting game to watch and listen to.  The commentators liked the crowd and the student section - mentioned OHIO being a tough place to play in terms of the fan support.  "Sit down Charlie" could be heard, etc. (happy font)

        


Bump!  We need more of this.  
anorris
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Posted: 1/10/2011 11:00 AM
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Here's another way of looking at this.  Take the lowest guessed (and these are absolute guesses, folks) attendance I've seen of 7,500.

That is more than 7 of our 11 conference brethren can hold in their arenas.  EMU, NIU, Miami, and Ball State are the only ones who could even hold that crowd, and I'll eat my notebook if any of them have a crowd that large this season.

(Though I should point out, I told Dragon the same thing about the girl in The Post thinking either team would score 85 in a Coles-coached game.  I didn't take into account a 55-minute game...)
Last Edited: 1/10/2011 11:05:07 AM by anorris
Alan Swank
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Posted: 1/10/2011 11:27 AM
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anorris wrote:expand_more
I

As for the bowl game numbers Alan mentions (which weren't the topic of my post), I'd be very interested in a good breakdown in that department.


Here you go according to numbers reported in Arkley's that quotes Schaus on Saturday.

Revenue

$300,000 MAC bowl pool
$15,880 tickets sold

$315,880 total

Expenses

$412,525.76 house, feed, send team to New Orleans
$68,175.89 house, feed, transport team on campus
$48,645 student involvement in game
$5,542 coaches families

$534,888.65 total

bobcat695
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Posted: 1/10/2011 1:23 PM
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I am not sure of the exact numbers, but I am pretty sure some numbers are being left out.  Wouldn't the money from Student Senate ($60,000 or so) have to go on the revenue side if the student expenses are on the liability side?  I am not trying to start a fight over this, nor do I want a line item expense report, but if Jim Schaus is going to report we broke even, there should be a full documentation of it somewhere.  I have to believe those numbers were right before athletics released the information stating it was a break even.  Otherwise, it is a huge PR mistake.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 1/10/2011 2:58 PM
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bobcat695 wrote:expand_more
I am not sure of the exact numbers, but I am pretty sure some numbers are being left out.  Wouldn't the money from Student Senate ($60,000 or so) have to go on the revenue side if the student expenses are on the liability side?  I am not trying to start a fight over this, nor do I want a line item expense report, but if Jim Schaus is going to report we broke even, there should be a full documentation of it somewhere.  I have to believe those numbers were right before athletics released the information stating it was a break even.  Otherwise, it is a huge PR mistake.


Yes the shortfall in revenue vs. expenses was made up with student fees from various sources (student senate, office of student life, athletics student fee reserve fund) and yes those amounts were budgeted.  However, we spent $199,000 more than we took in and that represents a loss in any accountant's book.
Bobcat Love
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Posted: 1/10/2011 3:05 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Yes the shortfall in revenue vs. expenses was made up with student fees from various sources (student senate, office of student life, athletics student fee reserve fund) and yes those amounts were budgeted.  However, we spent $199,000 more than we took in and that represents a loss in any accountant's book.


That's the way I read it also, but I'd like someone with a tight handle on this to PM me and let me know the situation.

If we lost $200k on this little Troy beatdown, it only reinforces my premise that we need a drastic change in the way we handle our football program, as the current course of scheduling and the post-season isn't working...no matter what you think you are trying to build 3, 4, 7, 8, 10, 15, 20 years down the road.
PutnamField
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Posted: 1/10/2011 3:31 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
$412,525.76 house, feed, send team to New Orleans


Whoa! I'm sure someone can and will contribute more information about this figure, but I didn't need to get the calculator out to do this:

-Roughly 150 people traveling on/with the team as part of its actual operations (someone tell me if this is way off)

-$412k to get them there and back with food and shelter

-Equals roughly $2,700 per head

Again, I don't want to jump to conclusions, but is this the best you can do amid a budget crisis? I'm pretty sure that a small group of Bobcatattack posters could have arranged this trip having no particular experience, charged a ten percent fee for our troubles and saved the university a hefty sum.
Last Edited: 1/10/2011 4:15:31 PM by PutnamField
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 1/10/2011 4:01 PM
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Bobcatbob wrote:expand_more
Charlie played to the crowd throughout.  It's amazing that he can enjoy what he is doing so much and still produce winning in-game decisions. 


As in quickly clamping a shadow on Tommy Freeman after he hit his 5th 3-pt'er, rendering him ineffective for the game's balance...
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Posted: 1/10/2011 4:19 PM
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The place was rocking and lots of fun.

Reinforces my belief that we could consistently get 8,000 - 9,000 folks in the Convo if we could just string together 2 impressive seasons.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 1/10/2011 4:20 PM
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PutnamField wrote:expand_more
$412,525.76 house, feed, send team to New Orleans


Whoa! I'm sure someone can and will contribute more information about this figure, but I didn't need to get the calculator out to do this:

-Roughly 150 people traveling on/with the team as part of its actual operations (someone tell me if this is way off)

-$412k to get them there and back with food and shelter

-Equals roughly $2,700 per head

Again, I don't want to jump to conclusions, but is this the best you can do amid a budget crisis? I'm pretty sure that a small group of Bobcatattack posters could have arranged this trip having no particular experience, charged a ten percent fee for our troubles and saved the university a hefty sum.


According to the article "the largest single line item on the bowl trip budget was the team's travel to and from New Orleans, a charter flight that cost $151,709."
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