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Topic: Resume Builder?
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KC Bobcat
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Posted: 12/21/2011 1:59 PM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
We're no shoe-in to get a bid. Does anyone remember the year we won the pre-season NIT with Trent? I'm sure we all thought a bid was in hand that year. Someone said the MAC really begins our season and I agree.
  Didn't that team have double-digit losses though?  You don't think 25-26 wins get them in consideration for an at-large?


When Boals went down that team lost a huge piece. And depth was not great.


If I recall, Trent also had an abdominal injury that while he was still able to play, he didn't dominate as he had previously.
cc-cat
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Posted: 12/21/2011 1:59 PM
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Ozcat wrote:expand_more

I believe without Sully, we can hang with them.  The same type of scenario can be shown for a lot of teams in the above "rankings".

I'll disagree (shocker, I know).


I knew I could only agree with you once - lol.  God forbid someone mention OSU an Ohio in the same breath as being competitive.  Do I think we could beat OSU?  Perhaps sneak one in on the right day, but generally not this year.  We are very good, OSU "may" be elite - too early to tell.  Do we hang with them?  Yes.  Wright state 31 point loss to OSU - 28 point loss to us. translates to hang with them.  Lamar losses by 20 - we beat them by 7.  translates to 13 point difference.  Emotion and opportunity to take on OSU keep the game single digits.  Translates hangs with them.
Chuck_IV
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Posted: 12/21/2011 2:03 PM
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giacomo wrote:expand_more
We're no shoe-in to get a bid. Does anyone remember the year we won the pre-season NIT with Trent? I'm sure we all thought a bid was in hand that year. Someone said the MAC really begins our season and I agree.


That came back to the issue taking THREE MAC teams for the tourney. The committee just couldn't do it and we were the odd man out due to Ball St winning the tourney. Miami won the regular season handily(by 3 games) and beat us twice. Plus we didn't even make it to the tourney finals. If Ball St doesn't win the tourney, then we probably get an at-large that year.

Unfortunately, with the MAC lingering as only a 12-15 ranked conference, for an at-large, IMO there are 3 things that must happen...

1) A Great regular season record(less than 10 losses minimum)

2) Winning the conference REGULAR season

3) Making the finals of the MAC tourney.

Do those 3 things and you will be strongly considered. To enhance things, have a good RPI/SOS with a signature win or 2.

Right now, while we are on our way to meeting #1 and enhancing things with our RPI/SOS, we have a long ways to go for 2 and 3.

Anything less than that and the committee will be hard pressed to give us an at-large.
Last Edited: 12/21/2011 2:05:07 PM by Chuck_IV
Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 12/21/2011 2:40 PM
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Tunnel vision:  The only thing I can see now is "beat North Carolina A&T.  Show improvement over the last game."

Or, to quote Bellarmine coach Scotty Davenport, the goal is to live in the moment, or "get one thing in a row right in our next drill." 

Way, way too premature to be talking about at-larges, anticipating won-loss records, etc. 
OUVan
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Posted: 12/21/2011 2:47 PM
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Chuck_IV wrote:expand_more
We're no shoe-in to get a bid. Does anyone remember the year we won the pre-season NIT with Trent? I'm sure we all thought a bid was in hand that year. Someone said the MAC really begins our season and I agree.


That came back to the issue taking THREE MAC teams for the tourney. The committee just couldn't do it and we were the odd man out due to Ball St winning the tourney. Miami won the regular season handily(by 3 games) and beat us twice. Plus we didn't even make it to the tourney finals. If Ball St doesn't win the tourney, then we probably get an at-large that year.

Unfortunately, with the MAC lingering as only a 12-15 ranked conference, for an at-large, IMO there are 3 things that must happen...

1) A Great regular season record(less than 10 losses minimum)

2) Winning the conference REGULAR season

3) Making the finals of the MAC tourney.

Do those 3 things and you will be strongly considered. To enhance things, have a good RPI/SOS with a signature win or 2.

Right now, while we are on our way to meeting #1 and enhancing things with our RPI/SOS, we have a long ways to go for 2 and 3.

Anything less than that and the committee will be hard pressed to give us an at-large.


That year actually highlights what many of us have been saying.  The most important thing is to win the regular season. Miami's OOC schedule wasn't all that tough and they lost to the only two tough teams they played (plus a loss to New Hampshire).  But they had a very good conference record and won the regular season.  We on the other hand did very well OOC but not only didn't win the regular season but we finished poorly, only winning 7 of our last 12 games.  At the end of the day the only thing we had to hang our hats on was a preseason NIT title and the fact that we had a great college basketball player.  That season was doomed the second Jeff Boals went down.
KC Bobcat
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Posted: 12/21/2011 2:49 PM
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I guarantee if we win the MAC regular season and tournament we will get a bid.  Lets just do that and take it out of the committee's hands.
Ohio69
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Posted: 12/21/2011 2:54 PM
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This is a very good win.  But, Northern Iowa needs to play well the rest of the season.  They were picked something like 4th in the MVC.  If they come in 4th, then this won't be as big a win come March.
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Posted: 12/21/2011 4:15 PM
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Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
This is a very good win.  But, Northern Iowa needs to play well the rest of the season.  They were picked something like 4th in the MVC.  If they come in 4th, then this won't be as big a win come March.


UNI should finish at least third... that would be a quality win.
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Posted: 12/21/2011 4:25 PM
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cc cat wrote:expand_more
I knew I could only agree with you once - lol.  God forbid someone mention OSU an Ohio in the same breath as being competitive.  Do I think we could beat OSU?  Perhaps sneak one in on the right day, but generally not this year.  We are very good, OSU "may" be elite - too early to tell.  Do we hang with them?  Yes.  Wright state 31 point loss to OSU - 28 point loss to us. translates to hang with them.  Lamar losses by 20 - we beat them by 7.  translates to 13 point difference.  Emotion and opportunity to take on OSU keep the game single digits.  Translates hangs with them.

I think you actually agreed with me.  Without Sullinger, we would still be overmatched, but could maybe keep it within 10.  With Sullinger, well, I'd prefer not to think about it . . .

. . . which is good, because there is no way we see each other until mid-March.  If we get that far, then I'll already be extremely happy.  A 12-4 (or better) MAC record is what I want.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 12/21/2011 10:35 PM
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Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
Tunnel vision:  The only thing I can see now is "beat North Carolina A&T.  Show improvement over the last game."

Or, to quote Bellarmine coach Scotty Davenport, the goal is to live in the moment, or "get one thing in a row right in our next drill." 

Way, way too premature to be talking about at-larges, anticipating won-loss records, etc. 
Athens
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Posted: 12/22/2011 12:00 AM
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OU_Country wrote:expand_more
We're no shoe-in to get a bid. Does anyone remember the year we won the pre-season NIT with Trent? I'm sure we all thought a bid was in hand that year. Someone said the MAC really begins our season and I agree.
  Didn't that team have double-digit losses though?  You don't think 25-26 wins get them in consideration for an at-large?


What I'm saying more is that if OHIO can win the next 7 in a row (including a win against Kent State) at 17-1 the school will virtually be a lock for the NCAA's. If the Cats can get that far its hard to see them not making the NCAAs unless they totally tank the last month of the season and into the MAC tourney. I do have some of the MAC season included as part of the test. Until the Cats complete the first round of MAC East games its going to be unclear on how they will perform in MAC play. Personally I don't think 26 wins (13-1, 12-4, 1-1 MAC tourney) will be enough to earn an at-large bid. OHIO will need to be looking at a MAC conference record of at least 13-3 if it wants serious consideration for an at-large bid to the NCAA's.


giacomo
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Posted: 12/22/2011 9:16 AM
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League play will be tough. When was the last time anyone really ran the table in MAC play, finishing with one or two losses?
OUVan
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Posted: 12/22/2011 9:57 AM
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giacomo wrote:expand_more
League play will be tough. When was the last time anyone really ran the table in MAC play, finishing with one or two losses?


Toledo went 14-2 in 2006-07.  Prior to that we played an 18 game schedule so it was even tougher. Lots of 3 loss teams. Kent was 17-1 in 2001-02.

But you are correct. It is a very tough thing to do particularly since the absolute pushovers in the conferences are much fewer this year.  One thing that is encouraging is that this team has played very well on the road.  I don't think anyone is saying we will go 14-2 or 13-3. We are just speculating on where we would be IF we went 14-2 or 13-3.
Ziegler79
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Posted: 12/22/2011 9:59 AM
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My senior year Kent State went 17-1 in the MAC and finished with five total losses.  They were a 10 seed in the NCAAs and won the MAC tournament, so even they would have been on the bubble for an at large.  However, I don't recall them having any marquee OOC wins and their lone conference loss was to a bad Buffalo team.  Huffman broke our hearts with a buzzer beater in Athens.  I would guess a 25-5, 12-4 record would get it done but I like Jeff's attitude - just focus on NC A&T...
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Posted: 12/22/2011 10:05 AM
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Ozcat wrote:expand_more
I knew I could only agree with you once - lol.  God forbid someone mention OSU an Ohio in the same breath as being competitive.  Do I think we could beat OSU?  Perhaps sneak one in on the right day, but generally not this year.  We are very good, OSU "may" be elite - too early to tell.  Do we hang with them?  Yes.  Wright state 31 point loss to OSU - 28 point loss to us. translates to hang with them.  Lamar losses by 20 - we beat them by 7.  translates to 13 point difference.  Emotion and opportunity to take on OSU keep the game single digits.  Translates hangs with them.

I think you actually agreed with me.  Without Sullinger, we would still be overmatched, but could maybe keep it within 10.  With Sullinger, well, I'd prefer not to think about it . . .

. . . which is good, because there is no way we see each other until mid-March.  If we get that far, then I'll already be extremely happy.  A 12-4 (or better) MAC record is what I want.


No, you and I disagree - without Sullinger - we hang very close and you never know - pull out a few wins.  With Sullinger - we hang close per the comparison with Lamar and Wright State -- OSU games that included Sullinger. 

What I want is a MAC championship - much more than I want a Big Ten title for OSU.  I hope everyone feels the same way.
Ozcat
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Posted: 12/22/2011 11:19 AM
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cc cat wrote:expand_more
No, you and I disagree - without Sullinger - we hang very close and you never know - pull out a few wins.  With Sullinger - we hang close per the comparison with Lamar and Wright State -- OSU games that included Sullinger.

I think we all know that the transitive property doesn't work in sports.  Temple beat Ball State 42-0.  We lost to Ball State by 3.  So by your logic, we should lost to Temple by 11 TDs.  I don't recall it going down that way . . .

We have a nice team, which features zero players who will be lottery picks in the NBA.  OSU has 2 guys who should be in the NBA already and another one who will go, and 4 McDs All American freshman sitting on the bench who barely play.  We would be overmatched.  Don't let Wright State and Lamar comparisons fool you.

We're hoping we can go 12-4 in MAC play.  OSU might not lose 4 games all year in a much better conference.
Last Edited: 12/22/2011 1:23:08 PM by Ozcat
The Optimist
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Posted: 12/22/2011 11:26 AM
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I guess it's a good thing we aren't playing in the NBA.
OUVan
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Posted: 12/22/2011 11:48 AM
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Ozcat wrote:expand_more
We have a nice team, which features zero players who will be lottery picks in the NBA. 


Ozcat
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Posted: 12/22/2011 11:49 AM
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The Optimist wrote:expand_more
I guess it's a good thing we aren't playing in the NBA.

Agreed.  We'd have to bring back Bota and his 'NBA skills' just to compete . . .
1of1st110
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Posted: 12/22/2011 12:53 PM
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Ozcat wrote:expand_more
I think we all know that the transient property doesn't work in sports....


I believe you are probably referring to the transitive mathematical property here.

Transitive:
4. Mathematics . noting a relation in which one element in relation to a second element and the second in relation to a third element implies the first element is in relation to the third element, as the relation “less than or equal to.”
One example of a transient property in sports would be :  Having a BCS bowl caliber team is a transient property of the OSU football program.
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Posted: 12/22/2011 1:22 PM
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Good catch, O110MM.
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Posted: 12/22/2011 1:50 PM
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Ozcat wrote:expand_more
No, you and I disagree - without Sullinger - we hang very close and you never know - pull out a few wins.  With Sullinger - we hang close per the comparison with Lamar and Wright State -- OSU games that included Sullinger.

I think we all know that the transitive property doesn't work in sports.  Temple beat Ball State 42-0.  We lost to Ball State by 3.  So by your logic, we should lost to Temple by 11 TDs.  I don't recall it going down that way . . .


So we disagree.  And if NBA picks determined victories, pencil in UNC and KY - may as well have OSU quit playing right now.

So we have different opinions.  What we can agree on is the is yes to the following statements.

Yes - I would rather see Ohio win the MAC than OSU win the Big Ten.

Yes - I would rather see Ohio win their bowl game than OSU win theirs (when not on probation)

Yes - I would rather see Ohio advance to a Final Four in basketball than see OSU win a national championship in basketball.

Yes, Yes and Yes - No question.  No debate.  Go Cats.

Last Edited: 12/22/2011 1:51:25 PM by cc-cat
perimeterpost
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Posted: 12/22/2011 6:27 PM
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thank God a Buckeye fan is here to put us in our place. *moves to the back of the bus*
The Optimist
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Posted: 12/22/2011 6:49 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
thank God a Buckeye fan is here to put us in our place. *moves to the back of the bus*

Good thing I'm here to remind everyone we beat the Buckeyes the last time we played them in Men's hoops.

(Should I change my name to Rosa Parks?)
RSBobcat
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Posted: 12/22/2011 9:22 PM
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SOOO.....I guess the "resume builder" question was in reference to the team and this season. Man did that train run off the track! (Maybe there was something "transitive" about the query?)
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