menu
Logo
Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Possible scenarios and seeding for Ohio
Page: 2 of 5
JSF
General User
Member Since: 1/29/2005
Location: Houston, TX
Post Count: 6,580
mail
JSF
mail
Posted: 2/25/2012 7:57 PM
Wins tomorrow and at Kent essentially clinch at least the 3. We're in control. I'll worry about the others only if we lose.

Drano on sale in Kent: http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=556900&pid=7602...
Last Edited: 2/25/2012 8:02:33 PM by JSF
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
General User
BSNNTO
Member Since: 2/4/2005
Post Count: 3,057
person
mail
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
mail
Posted: 2/25/2012 11:16 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Any one buying the thought that a 3 seed may be preferable to the 2?  We are deep and playing a team that hasn't played in a week after we pounded some crappy West team the night before sounds advantageous to me.  I think it would help us in the semifinal but possibly hurt us in the final.  But I think this team is in good enough shape and deep enough to play 3 straight nights without feeling it.  Now 4 in a row would be a different story.


I buy this theory in high school basketball, but not in college hoops. I've seen high school teams play the first game of the sectional, get confidence and roll the team with the bye.

But too many bad things can happen in the MAC tournament.
anorris
General User
Member Since: 7/7/2010
Location: Bristol, CT
Post Count: 2,262
mail
anorris
mail
Posted: 2/26/2012 2:09 PM
Anybody else see Boeheim's opinion on the double-bye last night?
Alan Swank
General User
AS
Member Since: 12/12/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,375
person
mail
Alan Swank
mail
Posted: 2/26/2012 2:14 PM
anorris wrote:expand_more
Anybody else see Boeheim's opinion on the double-bye last night?


Wonder what he'd think about the TRIPLE bye that the top two MAC teams get?
JSF
General User
Member Since: 1/29/2005
Location: Houston, TX
Post Count: 6,580
mail
JSF
mail
Posted: 2/26/2012 2:27 PM
anorris wrote:expand_more
Anybody else see Boeheim's opinion on the double-bye last night?


No. Was he whining? He whines.
mcbin
General User
Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 951
mail
mcbin
mail
Posted: 2/26/2012 2:33 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
No. Was he whining? He whines.


Jim B or Alan?
Eagle66
General User
E66
Member Since: 3/13/2005
Post Count: 1,329
person
mail
Eagle66
mail
Posted: 2/26/2012 3:41 PM
Guess we don't have to worry about that #2 seed anymore.  On the CMU/NIU broadcast Steve Mix just decreed Buffalo has it all but wrapped up.
lovebobcat
General User
L
Member Since: 12/23/2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Post Count: 548
person
mail
lovebobcat
mail
Posted: 2/26/2012 10:26 PM
Anyone want to take a crack at updating the scenarios after tonight's game? The way I read it, we could lock up the No. 2 seed Wednesday if we win and Buffalo loses.
OUVan
General User
Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Bethesda, MD
Post Count: 5,580
mail
OUVan
mail
Posted: 2/26/2012 10:36 PM
lovebobcat wrote:expand_more
Anyone want to take a crack at updating the scenarios after tonight's game? The way I read it, we could lock up the No. 2 seed Wednesday if we win and Buffalo loses.


That is correct.  If we beat Kent and Buffalo loses to Akron the #1 and #2 seeds are locked in.  It would then be down to Buffalo and Kent fighting over the #3 and #4 seeds with EMU and BG still holding out hope for a bye as well.
lovebobcat
General User
L
Member Since: 12/23/2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Post Count: 548
person
mail
lovebobcat
mail
Posted: 2/27/2012 1:25 AM
What happens in the different scenarios if we lose to Kent? If we end up in a 3-way tie for second with Buffalo and Kent, do we get the No. 2 seed?
anorris
General User
Member Since: 7/7/2010
Location: Bristol, CT
Post Count: 2,262
mail
anorris
mail
Posted: 2/27/2012 1:35 AM
JSF wrote:expand_more
Anybody else see Boeheim's opinion on the double-bye last night?


No. Was he whining? He whines.
Something along the lines of penalizing the team that plays the best and being the worst idea in the world.
Kevin Finnegan
General User
KF
Member Since: 2/4/2005
Location: Rockton, IL
Post Count: 1,214
person
mail
Kevin Finnegan
mail
Posted: 2/27/2012 7:55 AM
With two games remaining, there are a number of possibilities still in play.

If we go 2-0, we are guaranteed at least the #2 seed.  If Akron loses out, then we tie for #1 and go to the tie-breakers.  With what would be an undefeated record against Kent and Buffalo, I think we would earn the #1 in that scenario.

1-1 (Win at Kent, loss at Miami)
At worst, the #3 seed.  For that, Buffalo would have to win out.  If Buffalo loses once, Ohio clinches #2.

1-1 (Loss at Kent, win at Miami)
Anywhere from #2-#4.  With one win, we clinch (at worst) the double-bye. 
  • If Kent and Buffalo went undefeated, we would be tied for #3 w/ Kent, Buffalo would be #2. We would then go to tie-breaks w/ Kent.  Our divisional record of 7-3 would beat Kent's 6-4.  We get #3 seed.
  • If Kent goes undefeated and Buffalo goes 1-1, we all three tie at #2.  In the tiebreaker for #2 seed, we would be 3-1 against the two teams.  I believe that would give us the #2 seed.  As for the #3/#4 between Buffalo and Kent, I 'm not too sure how that would play out.  I think if Buffalo's one win comes against Akron, they would be 2-0 against Akron and would then earn the #3 seed, Kent the #4.  If their win comes against BGSU, then I don't know how the #4 seed plays out.  It may be a coin-toss.
  • If Kent loses to Akron and Buffalo wins out, Buffalo is #2, Ohio #3, Kent #4.
  • If Kent loses to Akron and Buffalo loses to Akron but beats BGSU, we end tied w/ Buffalo.  Our 2-0 record against them gives us the #2 seed.  Buffalo gets the #3, Kent sits at #4.
  • If Kent loses to Akron and Buffalo loses out, we get #2 seed.  The #3/#4 seed is muddled, but I think that Kent would be #3, Buffalo #4 due to divisional record.
0-2
Many pieces in play here.  I believe that we have already assured a better seed than BGSU even if we end tie due to our divisional record.  That means the only teams that could end above us would be EMU, Buffalo, Kent. 
  • One loss by EMU and we finish above them and earn the double-bye.
  • Buffalo would need a win over either Akron or BGSU to finish above us.  If Kent went undefeated at Buffalo went 1-1, Buffalo and Kent would tie for #2 seed.  I think they would then have the same record in division and split their series.  If Buffalo beats Kent for their one win, Buffalo would get the #2 seed, Kent the #3.  If Buffalo's win came against BGSU but lost to Akron, Kent would then get the #2 seed due to their (proposed) win over Ohio.  Buffalo's 0-2 record against us would push them to #3.  If Buffalo goes undefeated, they get the #2 seed. 
  • If Kent loses to Akron, we would then finish tied w/ them.  I think we would have a better divisional record, giving us the #3 seed over Kent.  This is in a scenario where Buffalo wins at least one game and gets the #2 seed.
Lots still out there to be decided.  It's not final yet. 

Here's the big twist.  What happens if Ohio, Buffalo, Kent and EMU all end at 10-6?  I'm not sure how a four-way tie works.  Kent and Buffalo would have the head-to-head tiebreak over EMU, but EMU would have the tiebreak over Ohio, while Ohio would have it over Buffalo.  If it goes to divisional records next, EMU would be the best.  So, would EMU be #2, Ohio #3 (due to divisional record), Buffalo #3, Kent #4?    

Or even crazier, what happens if EMU and BGSU win out, finishing 10-6, while Ohio and Buffalo lose out, with Kent winning just against Akron?  EMU, BGSU, Ohio, Buffalo, and Kent would be 10-6.  EMU would hold tiebreaker over Ohio and BGSU, Buffalo and Kent would hold tiebreaker over EMU, Ohio would hold tiebreaker over Buffalo.  Would it go to divisional records again?  In that case, it goes with EMU #2, Ohio #3, BGSU #4, then Kent and Buffalo in the 5/6 spots, I believe.  That would be insane.                                            
cc-cat
General User
C
Member Since: 4/5/2006
Location: matthews, NC
Post Count: 4,016
person
mail
cc-cat
mail
Posted: 2/27/2012 8:03 AM
within the tournament situation (byes, bracket, etc), what is the difference between #2 and #3?
Mike Coleman
Administrator
Member Since: 12/21/2004
Location: Near the Pristine Sandy Shores of Lake Erie, OH
Post Count: 1,999
mail
Mike Coleman
mail
Posted: 2/27/2012 8:26 AM
cc cat wrote:expand_more
within the tournament situation (byes, bracket, etc), what is the difference between #2 and #3?


#2 is auto triple bye to semis. #3 is auto double bye to quarters. They'd both be in the same side of the bracket. #2 would player winner of #3 v. winner of first-round game.
Last Edited: 2/27/2012 8:26:43 AM by Mike Coleman
anorris
General User
Member Since: 7/7/2010
Location: Bristol, CT
Post Count: 2,262
mail
anorris
mail
Posted: 2/27/2012 11:58 AM
Four way tie starts head to head, among all of the tied teams, based on winning %.
Kevin Finnegan
General User
KF
Member Since: 2/4/2005
Location: Rockton, IL
Post Count: 1,214
person
mail
Kevin Finnegan
mail
Posted: 2/27/2012 2:56 PM
So, if that's the case w/ four-way ties (head-to-head of all teams tied, look at winning %), this is how the tiebreaks should play out:

In a five-way tie between Buffalo, Ohio, Kent, BGSU, and EMU at 10-6 (which means BGSU and EMU win out), the breakdown would be as such:
  • Ohio 4-3
  • Kent 4-3
  • EMU 2-2
  • BGSU 3-4
  • Buffalo 3-4
Going off further tiebreaks, Ohio would have the better record inside the division, so Ohio would get the #2 seed, Kent the #3.  EMU would be the #4, while BGSU would be #5 (based off division record) and Buffalo #5.

In a four-way tie b/w Buffalo, Ohio, Kent and BGSU, here's the breakdown:
  • Ohio 4-2
  • BGSU 3-3
  • Kent 3-3
  • Buffalo 2-4
BG gets tiebreak over Kent due to division record.  Ohio is #2, BGSU #3, Kent St #4, Buffalo #5. 

In a four-way tie b/w Buffalo, Ohio, Kent, and EMU, the breakdown would be:
  • Ohio 3-2
  • Kent 3-2
  • Buffalo 2-3 (.400)
  • EMU 1-2 (.333)
Ohio would have tie-break over Kent due to division record.  Ohio is #2, Kent #3, Buffalo #4, EMU #5.

All craziness, but it seems as though Ohio benefits nicely from any of the multiple team ties (Ohio would also be tops in a three-way tie w/ Buffalo and Kent St.).
bobcat2nc
General User
B2
Member Since: 12/28/2004
Post Count: 584
person
mail
bobcat2nc
mail
Posted: 2/27/2012 4:06 PM
Mike Coleman wrote:expand_more
within the tournament situation (byes, bracket, etc), what is the difference between #2 and #3?


#2 is auto triple bye to semis. #3 is auto double bye to quarters. They'd both be in the same side of the bracket. #2 would player winner of #3 v. winner of first-round game.


here is the link to the tourney set-up  http://mac-sports.com/Championships/BasketballM.aspx


the #3 seed would play on Thursday against the winner of Wednesday's game between winners of Monday's
#6 v #10 and #7 v #11 .  Then on Friday #2 will play the winner of that game. 
Jeff McKinney
Moderator
JM
Member Since: 11/12/2004
Post Count: 6,163
person
mail
Jeff McKinney
mail
Posted: 2/29/2012 10:51 PM
All right, I'm ready for some of our resident analysts to update this thread based on Wednesday's outcomes.  
Andrew Ruck
General User
Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 5,646
mail
Andrew Ruck
mail
Posted: 3/1/2012 12:26 AM
My expert analysis is tonight was the worst possible scenario.
Steve
General User
S
Member Since: 12/1/2005
Post Count: 713
person
mail
Steve
mail
Posted: 3/1/2012 3:06 AM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
My expert analysis is tonight was the worst possible scenario.


I would say that is the most accurate observation of the night.
Kevin Finnegan
General User
KF
Member Since: 2/4/2005
Location: Rockton, IL
Post Count: 1,214
person
mail
Kevin Finnegan
mail
Posted: 3/1/2012 7:20 AM
Win at Miami
  • At worst, #3 seed.  In this scenario, Buffalo would be the #2.
  • If Buffalo loses to BG, Ohio would earn the #2 seed.
Loss at Miami
  • All hell breaks loose...
  • If EMU, BG win, Kent loses, a four way tie where EMU gets the #3 seed, Kent gets the #4 seed
  • If EMU wins, Kent loses, and BG loses, BG is out of the tie.  EMU, Kent, and Ohio are tied, Kent would be the #3 seed, EMU would be the #4 seed.
  • If EMU wins and Kent wins, Kent is the #3, EMU is #4. 
  • Simply put, we need EMU to lose.
  • If EMU loses, BG wins, Kent loses, there becomes a three-way tie b/w BG, Kent and Ohio.  Teams are 2-2 against each other.  It goes to division record, Ohio is #3, BG is #4.
  • If EMU loses, BG wins, Kent wins, it becomes a head-to-head b/w BG and Ohio.  Ohio is #4, BG does not get the bye and ends up at #5.
UpSan Bobcat
General User
Member Since: 8/30/2005
Location: Upper Sandusky, OH
Post Count: 3,817
mail
UpSan Bobcat
mail
Posted: 3/1/2012 7:48 AM
I guess the positive about the schedule is we will know who to root for between Buffalo and BG on Saturday based on our result Friday. If we win, then we cheer for BG. if we lose, cheer for Buffalo. Another positive is that EMU has about a tough a game as they can get in the MAC West, playing at Toledo.
71 BOBCAT
General User
71B
Member Since: 12/21/2004
Post Count: 1,954
person
mail
71 BOBCAT
mail
Posted: 3/1/2012 8:16 AM
We will now see what this team is made of.
If we lose @ Miami and don't get into the top 4 seeds I would predict that the team will find it hard to recover the motivation to perform well in the tournament. If this was to happen than we will all be extremely dissapointed with this team, which is the same team for next year as well.






GO BOBCATS
shabamon
General User
Member Since: 11/17/2006
Location: Cincinnati
Post Count: 7,316
mail
shabamon
mail
Posted: 3/1/2012 8:30 AM
It looks as though if we lose and EMU loses, the BG-Buff result is inconsequential, unless you think there's a huge difference between the #3 and #4 seed.

If we tie with Kent, who wins the tiebreak?
Last Edited: 3/1/2012 8:46:17 AM by shabamon
UpSan Bobcat
General User
Member Since: 8/30/2005
Location: Upper Sandusky, OH
Post Count: 3,817
mail
UpSan Bobcat
mail
Posted: 3/1/2012 9:00 AM
shabamon wrote:expand_more
It looks as though if we lose and EMU loses, the BG-Buff result is inconsequential, unless you think there's a huge difference between the #3 and #4 seed.

If we tie with Kent, who wins the tiebreak?


Right. Ohio has the tiebreaker with Kent State in a single head-to-head tie, based on Ohio having beaten Buffalo twice. If BG is in the tie with Kent State and Ohio (but not EMU based on it losing), Ohio still holds the tiebreaker for the same reason (with all the tied teams being 1-1 against each other). The tie between Kent State and BG for the No. 4 seed would go to Kent State based on the Flashes having beaten Eastern Michigan and BG did not.

Simplification on tiebreakers: Ohio holds all tiebreakers involving division foes only. If Eastern Michigan is in the tie, that changes things. The big game really will be EMU-Toledo if the Bobcats lose Friday. If the Bobcats win, then we'll be watching Buffalo-BG more closely.
Last Edited: 3/1/2012 9:02:37 AM by UpSan Bobcat
Showing Messages: 26 - 50 of 101
MAC News Links



extra small (< 576px)
small (>= 576px)
medium (>= 768px)
large (>= 992px)
x-large (>= 1200px)
xx-large (>= 1400px)