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Topic: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
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Jerry86
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:37 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Well I'm still holding out hope that John will see the light and stay at Ohio for the long haul. However, if he goes to Illinois I think this has all the "look and feel" of Nee to Nebraska a few decades back. He would have been better off staying at Ohio for at least another five years.


Nee was ready to move on IMO. And he achieved darn good success at Nebraska. From an article prior to his Hall of Fame induction at Nebraska in 2009:

Nee’s 254 career wins at Nebraska are a school record. He led the Huskers to five NCAA Tournament appearances and six NIT berths.

He was there 14 years -- post season appearances are quite impressive with 11 out of 14. And average number of W's per year was just under 19. Not bad for a guy out in the middle of nowhere ...
BobcatJH
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:39 PM
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If I may summarize what everyone's thinking in response to the Illinois posters:

Whether or not he leaves Ohio, you guys don't deserve Coach Groce. You deserve an overrated, "big-name" face who's big on TV facetime but who's also short on actual coaching talent. There's a reason you guys can't make it to the top of the Big 10 and it's not the recruiting of a coach who isn't even on your staff yet. The reason is that you seem to us like a bunch of provincial, perspectiveless front-runners whose favorite pro teams, if asked, would probably be the Yankees, Cowboys, and Lakers.
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:43 PM
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BobcatJH wrote:expand_more
If I may summarize what everyone's thinking in response to the Illinois posters:

Whether or not he leaves Ohio, you guys don't deserve Coach Groce. You deserve an overrated, "big-name" face who's big on TV facetime but who's also short on actual coaching talent. There's a reason you guys can't make it to the top of the Big 10 and it's not the recruiting of a coach who isn't even on your staff yet. The reason is that you seem to us like a bunch of provincial, perspectiveless front-runners whose favorite pro teams, if asked, would probably be the Yankees, Cowboys, and Lakers.


You cannot be an Illini fan and a front runner. Seeing as we have sucked lately.

Actually I only support Illinois teams, Bears, Cubs, Illini. Some around here are Cardinal fans, but that'd have to do with being so close to Saint Louis.

It's sad you think that about us, but oh well. 

Despite this you guys have been a lot nicer than the VCU fans. They flat out were &^%$#@*(.
Last Edited: 3/28/2012 7:20:44 PM by Jeff McKinney
BobcatJH
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:45 PM
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Ohioans are nice people. We just don't like being talked down to by fans of a team we could beat if we played them right now, Big 10 or not.
Gangsta Pete
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:46 PM
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OakStreet wrote:expand_more
Davis? Get fired at UAB and increase pay at Illinois. That would be a hoot to see.


I read that Davis said the reason he was fired at UAB was attendance. Illinois would not have that problem because its fans and their Orange Flush are so awesome! At IU, the biggest problem Davis had was that he couldn't land the best recruits in Indiana, although he recruited well in other states. At Illinois, he wouldn't have to get the best recruits in Indiana! Also, he didn't get along with the fanbase at IU, which is perfect because fans at Illinois don't get along with the fanbase at IU.   


That, and as he was the first post-Bob Knight coach, he was set-up for failure.
Illinoisfan
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:48 PM
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BobcatJH wrote:expand_more
Ohioans are nice people. We just don't like being talked down to by fans of a team we could beat if we played them right now, Big 10 or not.


I never talked down to any of you.

If you read any of my previous posts, I said many times Ohio was a better team this year. I never tried to say you weren't. 
Sneak20
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:49 PM
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Has anyone heard the numbers or looked into the petition anymore? And if we have definitely offered Groce a sure figure?
OUBobcat13
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:59 PM
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Illinoisfan wrote:expand_more
but he is simply not ready at this point in my opinion.


Based on what?


I mostly base that assumption on his lack of success in the MAC regular season. Sure, he won the MAC tournament title and made a good run in the tournament, but he's finished 2 out of 4 seasons with a losing conference record, One mediocre 9-7 finish, and this year's 11-5 + run in the tournament. 

Now imagine if he had been playing the likes of OSU, MSU, UM, IU, WISC, etc etc. He won't get to beat up on NIU and the likes anymore.


His conference record in the MAC is not impressive at all, at 34-30, nearly .500. His overall record is slightly better, but not as good as Bruce Weber's was even.

Sure, he has led your team to a good season this year, with a great finish, but it won't be so easy this year. He won't be able to win the B1G conference tournament like he did the MAC tournament for Ohio. 

This is too big of a gamble for the U of I, which already has enough to deal with. 


This is a lack of critical thinking. His first year, he had zero of his own recruits as O'Shea bailed on us late in the game. There is nobody left from that bad team.

FACT: Every Groce team has had a better record than the team before it.
FACT: This was the first season with the roster composed entirely of Groce recruits.
FACT: This season set a school record in wins.
FACT: Groce is beating out BCS teams for recruits right here in Athens.

And he's done it with a MAC-level budget. You're giving a false syllogism; you can't compare MAC success with Big Ten success because the situations are not analogous. He wouldn't be dealing with Ohio's budget at Illinois, he'd be dealing with Illinois. The fact of the matter is that he has built Ohio into a successful program with a budget that is outside the top 100. Imagine what he could do with the resources your school can provide him.

And sure, he won't have NIU. But he'll have Penn State and Northwestern and Iowa. And he won't have to win the conference tournament to get into the Big Dance.

And who are you going to get that's better at this point?


The recruits he has brought to Ohio would not cut it here. He will try to bring MAC talent to the B1G, and it will never work out for us that way. The guy has ONE good season and is somehow qualified for the Illinois job (which, however good that is is up to opinion). There is nothing to judge this guy by other than his records, which would not be acceptable at Ohio, and not acceptable at Illinois. The guy only wins half of the games he coaches, now i'm sure with next years Ohio team that will be better, but after that, who knows?

This, on top of the fact that he has no loyalty or connections to Illinois. He doesn't even know the colors of the school, and we need someone who truly cares about Illinois basketball, not someone here for the money.




Those recruits "cut it" against one of your league champs on a neutral floor.




Well we've beaten the B1G league champs MSU and OSU, but we still had a terrible team. Winning one game means little over the span of a season.

You think Groce can succeed at Illinois? I don't know. I really, really, really doubt it.


Honestly, with the situation your school and atheletic dept. is in...I'm not sure Thad Matta, Tom Izzo, Rick Pitino, or Roy Williams could either.
Bobcat Swag
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Posted: 3/28/2012 5:04 PM
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While at work, I'm stuck inside with absolutely no real connection to the outside world (i.e, the internet). I come home and see the situation is in the same position as it was yesterday. And Monday.  How in the world has nothing happened either way yet? Either sign the dotted line or tell them to shove it already Coach!
OU didn't know
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Posted: 3/28/2012 5:05 PM
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athena wrote:expand_more
You're absolutely right. You should just hire Michelle O'Bama's brother.


Groce is 100x better than that guy.

I mean dear god, that guy is baaaad.


Another suggestion.... we know a guy named Tim O'Shea who might be worth a look.


Don't you mean Tommy O'Shea?
OUVan
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Posted: 3/28/2012 5:07 PM
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Bobcat Swag wrote:expand_more
While at work, I'm stuck inside with absolutely no real connection to the outside world (i.e, the internet). I come home and see the situation is in the same position as it was yesterday. And Monday.  How in the world has nothing happened either way yet? Either sign the dotted line or tell them to shove it already Coach!


Or a lot has changed and we just don't know about it.  
Jerry86
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Posted: 3/28/2012 5:10 PM
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Illinoisfan wrote:expand_more
Ohioans are nice people. We just don't like being talked down to by fans of a team we could beat if we played them right now, Big 10 or not.


I never talked down to any of you.

If you read any of my previous posts, I said many times Ohio was a better team this year. I never tried to say you weren't. 


Ignore that post from BobcatJH.  As you likely know not all posters here exhibit such abrasiveness. It's amazing how defensive people can get and how they apparently can't interpret simple posts.  I've had no issue with you or the other Illini poster since you've been here.
OakStreet
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Posted: 3/28/2012 5:14 PM
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Illinoisfan wrote:expand_more
If I may summarize what everyone's thinking in response to the Illinois posters:

Whether or not he leaves Ohio, you guys don't deserve Coach Groce. You deserve an overrated, "big-name" face who's big on TV facetime but who's also short on actual coaching talent. There's a reason you guys can't make it to the top of the Big 10 and it's not the recruiting of a coach who isn't even on your staff yet. The reason is that you seem to us like a bunch of provincial, perspectiveless front-runners whose favorite pro teams, if asked, would probably be the Yankees, Cowboys, and Lakers.


You cannot be an Illini fan and a front runner. Seeing as we have sucked lately.

Actually I only support Illinois teams, Bears, Cubs, Illini. Some around here are Cardinal fans, but that'd have to do with being so close to Saint Louis.

It's sad you think that about us, but oh well. 

Despite this you guys have been a lot nicer than the VCU fans. They flat out were $#%^#.


OK, since we are now talking about the humble masses at Illinois, here's another great prospect for them, a hungry underdog of a coach. Want a relentless recruiter who won't give up on the top in-state talent and can figure out a way to keep him home? A minority candidate who has recruited successfully in the Chicago Public League? Someone talented and proven, yet amazingly he's available, not too old and would take the job?

Kelvin Sampson - there's your guy. In fact, I feel like the Illini faithful have had a special interest in Kelvin for a while now. So forget about this no-name Groce guy in the MAC.   
Illinoisfan
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Posted: 3/28/2012 5:16 PM
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Jerry86 wrote:expand_more
Ohioans are nice people. We just don't like being talked down to by fans of a team we could beat if we played them right now, Big 10 or not.


I never talked down to any of you.

If you read any of my previous posts, I said many times Ohio was a better team this year. I never tried to say you weren't. 


Ignore that post from BobcatJH.  As you likely know not all posters here exhibit such abrasiveness. It's amazing how defensive people can get and how they apparently can't interpret simple posts.  I've had no issue with you or the other Illini poster since you've been here.


Oh it's okay. I understand how someone could get emotional, the future of your program is being discussed, but no matter what happens i think Ohio will continue to be successful, especially with the team you will have next year.

I will only stay here until something is decided, seems like a pretty nice community of fans, plus it's alot easier to read than the Illinois loyalty forums, too many posters there.
OUVan
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Posted: 3/28/2012 5:17 PM
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I don't think you responded to my previous post. Who do you want the Illini to hire?

Illinoisfan
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Posted: 3/28/2012 5:19 PM
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OakStreet wrote:expand_more
If I may summarize what everyone's thinking in response to the Illinois posters:

Whether or not he leaves Ohio, you guys don't deserve Coach Groce. You deserve an overrated, "big-name" face who's big on TV facetime but who's also short on actual coaching talent. There's a reason you guys can't make it to the top of the Big 10 and it's not the recruiting of a coach who isn't even on your staff yet. The reason is that you seem to us like a bunch of provincial, perspectiveless front-runners whose favorite pro teams, if asked, would probably be the Yankees, Cowboys, and Lakers.


You cannot be an Illini fan and a front runner. Seeing as we have sucked lately.

Actually I only support Illinois teams, Bears, Cubs, Illini. Some around here are Cardinal fans, but that'd have to do with being so close to Saint Louis.

It's sad you think that about us, but oh well. 

Despite this you guys have been a lot nicer than the VCU fans. They flat out were assholes.


OK, since we are now talking about the humble masses at Illinois, here's another great prospect for them, a hungry underdog of a coach. Want a relentless recruiter who won't give up on the top in-state talent and can figure out a way to keep him home? A minority candidate who has recruited successfully in the Chicago Public League? Someone talented and proven, yet amazingly he's available, not too old and would take the job?

Kelvin Sampson - there's your guy. In fact, I feel like the Illini faithful have had a special interest in Kelvin for a while now. So forget about this no-name Groce guy in the MAC.   


We don't want a cheater, or a failure of a coach.
JSF
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Posted: 3/28/2012 5:21 PM
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What happens if the page count fills the row? Does it get wider or move to a second row?
Illinoisfan
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Posted: 3/28/2012 5:23 PM
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OUVan wrote:expand_more

I don't think you responded to my previous post. Who do you want the Illini to hire?



Maybe Simeon's coach, he runs the show in the CPL, and has the nations #1 recruit in Parker on his HS team, and a native Illinoisan.  He is the best candidate in my mind, he's won a lot of state titles as well.
Doc Bobcat
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Posted: 3/28/2012 5:23 PM
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What's the record for the number of posts in one thread?
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 3/28/2012 5:25 PM
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When car manufacturers added another zero to odometers, they robbed us off such simple joys as watching a counter roll over completely.
OUbobcat9092
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Posted: 3/28/2012 5:28 PM
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JSF wrote:expand_more
What happens if the page count fills the row? Does it get wider or move to a second row?
On my blackberry we are already on the 4th row of page #'s. Reading this as I am recruiting in Illinois this week.
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Posted: 3/28/2012 5:33 PM
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Love that they are fewer concerns over a HS coach being able to cut it at Illinois than a guy who has worked as an assistant under Thad Matta at Butler, Xavier, and OSU (where he was known as one of the best recruiters in the Big 10),  and has taken Ohio from a program in shambles when he arrived to a school record in wins, three NCAA tourney wins in three years, a sweet 16 appearance, and returns a team that very well may be preseason top 25 this year.  Hey, I'm not complaining as long as it keeps him in Athens, but I just find it comical.  
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Posted: 3/28/2012 5:41 PM
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OU didn't know wrote:expand_more
Love that they are fewer concerns over a HS coach being able to cut it at Illinois than a guy who has worked as an assistant under Thad Matta at Butler, Xavier, and OSU (where he was known as one of the best recruiters in the Big 10),  and has taken Ohio from a program in shambles when he arrived to a school record in wins, three NCAA tourney wins in three years, a sweet 16 appearance, and returns a team that very well may be preseason top 25 this year.  Hey, I'm not complaining as long as it keeps him in Athens, but I just find it comical.  


Smith coaches and creates the best players in the country. He flat out knows how to coach, and obviously recruit. He's won many state titles, and puts together one of the best teams in the nation year after year.

He gives us access to Chicago's best players, something we haven't had since...ever.

Another main concern with Groce is many coaches in the CPL have expressed they don't want him hired since he is not active in Chicago recruiting and they don't know him.

Many Illinois fans will disagree with me though.  I happen to think it's the best choice though.
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 3/28/2012 5:52 PM
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I'm now actively rooting for Illinois to hire a high school coach just to see Tom Izzo beat Illinois by 35 points next season.
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Posted: 3/28/2012 5:57 PM
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Faust experiment 2.0
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