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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
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Lash
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:59 PM
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intrpdtrvlr wrote:expand_more
but he is simply not ready at this point in my opinion.


Based on what?


I mostly base that assumption on his lack of success in the MAC regular season. Sure, he won the MAC tournament title and made a good run in the tournament, but he's finished 2 out of 4 seasons with a losing conference record, One mediocre 9-7 finish, and this year's 11-5 + run in the tournament. 

Now imagine if he had been playing the likes of OSU, MSU, UM, IU, WISC, etc etc. He won't get to beat up on NIU and the likes anymore.


His conference record in the MAC is not impressive at all, at 34-30, nearly .500. His overall record is slightly better, but not as good as Bruce Weber's was even.

Sure, he has led your team to a good season this year, with a great finish, but it won't be so easy this year. He won't be able to win the B1G conference tournament like he did the MAC tournament for Ohio. 

This is too big of a gamble for the U of I, which already has enough to deal with. 


This is a lack of critical thinking. His first year, he had zero of his own recruits as O'Shea bailed on us late in the game. There is nobody left from that bad team.

FACT: Every Groce team has had a better record than the team before it.
FACT: This was the first season with the roster composed entirely of Groce recruits.
FACT: This season set a school record in wins.
FACT: Groce is beating out BCS teams for recruits right here in Athens.

And he's done it with a MAC-level budget. You're giving a false syllogism; you can't compare MAC success with Big Ten success because the situations are not analogous. He wouldn't be dealing with Ohio's budget at Illinois, he'd be dealing with Illinois. The fact of the matter is that he has built Ohio into a successful program with a budget that is outside the top 100. Imagine what he could do with the resources your school can provide him.

And sure, he won't have NIU. But he'll have Penn State and Northwestern and Iowa. And he won't have to win the conference tournament to get into the Big Dance.

And who are you going to get that's better at this point?


Awwwhhh, nawwwwwww.  He just went all Forcier on you!


We should be convincing them that they are right.

U of I "already has enough to deal with" (what is that?)
cincybobcat99
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:01 PM
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Illinoisfan wrote:expand_more
 We need someone who truly cares about Illinois basketball, not someone here for the money.


Then cap your salary at around a million and see how that works out for you...at this point you can't even buy a coach.
Last Edited: 3/28/2012 4:03:13 PM by cincybobcat99
OUVan
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:07 PM
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Illinoisfan wrote:expand_more
The recruits he has brought to Ohio would not cut it here. He will try to bring MAC talent to the B1G, and it will never work out for us that way. The guy has ONE good season and is somehow qualified for the Illinois job (which, however good that is is up to opinion). There is nothing to judge this guy by other than his records, which would not be acceptable at Ohio, and not acceptable at Illinois. The guy only wins half of the games he coaches, now i'm sure with next years Ohio team that will be better, but after that, who knows?

This, on top of the fact that he has no loyalty or connections to Illinois. He doesn't even know the colors of the school, and we need someone who truly cares about Illinois basketball, not someone here for the money.


LOL, please say your whole post is tongue-in-cheek.   He has recruited Big Ten talent before. In fact, he was named recruiter of the year when he was at Ohio State.  He isn't going to recruit MAC players. You are basing your whole opinion on numbers not circumstances.

As for his record, I guess you just have to say "You had to be there." If your people in charge are judging coaching prospects the same way you do all I can say is you'll get what you deserve.  In about five years from now you'll be looking at whomever hired John Groce and scream "Our management sucks. How in the world could we pass on John Groce.  I told you we should have hired him.  We should be where they are."
cc-cat
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:07 PM
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Lash wrote:expand_more
Why is Bobcat Love creating more threads after creating this one?

The man should be proud.


Complete disregard for thread contraception - I hope he at least practices safe posting.
JSF
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:11 PM
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Illinoisfan wrote:expand_more
The recruits he has brought to Ohio would not cut it here. He will try to bring MAC talent to the B1G, and it will never work out for us that way.


(smacks forehead) Again, critical thinking. You're acting like he would have the exact same success at Ohio, Illinois, or SIU-Edwardsville. The very name "ILLINOIS" opens up recruiting avenues Ohio could only dream of. First of all, he's bringing in better than MAC-level talent right now. Second of all, he's successfully recruited the top high school players in the country to a Big Ten school. You're acting like he has no idea what he's doing when that's absolutely not the case.

Illinoisfan wrote:expand_more
The guy has ONE good season and is somehow qualified for the Illinois job (which, however good that is is up to opinion).


You have no idea what this involves, do you? It's not just the one season. It's the program he has built that led to this season being possible. What if they win 30 games next season and make the Elite 8? Is he worthy then?

Illinoisfan wrote:expand_more
There is nothing to judge this guy by other than his records, which would not be acceptable at Ohio, and not acceptable at Illinois.


This is just flat-out ignorant. You only judge him by his record if you are lazy or stupid.

Illinoisfan wrote:expand_more
This, on top of the fact that he has no loyalty or connections to Illinois. He doesn't even know the colors of the school, and we need someone who truly cares about Illinois basketball, not someone here for the money.


Also ignorant. He coached at Ohio State and he doesn't know your colors? He has no loyalty to someone who may or may not offer him a job? Are you holding out for a fantasy man who will work virtually for free out of love and fealty? Wake up. EVERYONE IS IN IT FOR THE MONEY. Otherwise, they wouldn't make it hand over fist.

Guess what? He had no loyalty or connections to Ohio, either, when he was hired. He had no loyalty or connections to Ohio State when they hired him.
OUVan
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:12 PM
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cincybobcat99 wrote:expand_more
 We need someone who truly cares about Illinois basketball, not someone here for the money.


Then cap your salary at around a million and see how that works out for you...at this point you can't even buy a coach.


LOL, no kidding. They can't even hire anybody who is in it for the money.  That long line of coaches who bleed Illinois basketball must have gotten lost somewhere in the building.
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:13 PM
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JSF wrote:expand_more
The recruits he has brought to Ohio would not cut it here. He will try to bring MAC talent to the B1G, and it will never work out for us that way.


(smacks forehead) Again, critical thinking. You're acting like he would have the exact same success at Ohio, Illinois, or SIU-Edwardsville. The very name "ILLINOIS" opens up recruiting avenues Ohio could only dream of. First of all, he's bringing in better than MAC-level talent right now. Second of all, he's successfully recruited the top high school players in the country to a Big Ten school. You're acting like he has no idea what he's doing when that's absolutely not the case.


I was poised to post this but JSF beat me to it.  Assuming he would be competing for and bringing in the exact same type of recruits when going from a MAC school to a Big Ten school is one of the most idiotic things I have ever seen on here.
OakStreet
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:13 PM
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Agree with Lash completely. Groce is a terrible fit for Illinois. The coach who is available that would fit the Illini is Mike Davis. He's available. He'd meet their diversity needs. He's a much better known name. He has Big 10 head coaching experience. And he doesn't currently coach at OU. He'd be perfect.
Last Edited: 3/28/2012 4:14:04 PM by OakStreet
OUVan
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:15 PM
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JSF wrote:expand_more
...for free out of love and fealty?


Huge bonus points for the use of the word "fealty".   Now work in "sigil" and you win. 
shabamon
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:15 PM
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Davis? Get fired at UAB and increase pay at Illinois. That would be a hoot to see.

If they want a good black coach, Reggie Theus should be getting a look.
athena
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:16 PM
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Illinois fans: Please do not listen to all of these people who are trying to confuse you with facts about John Groce's coaching ability.

He does not bleed orange and blue. That's all you need to know.

cincybobcat99
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:16 PM
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OakStreet wrote:expand_more
The coach who is available that would fit the Illini is Mike Davis. He's available. He'd meet their diversity needs. He's a much better known name. He has Big 10 head coaching experience. And he doesn't currently coach at OU. He'd be perfect.


That is thinking outside the box!
Illinoisfan
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:16 PM
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ohio9704 wrote:expand_more
but he is simply not ready at this point in my opinion.


Based on what?


I mostly base that assumption on his lack of success in the MAC regular season. Sure, he won the MAC tournament title and made a good run in the tournament, but he's finished 2 out of 4 seasons with a losing conference record, One mediocre 9-7 finish, and this year's 11-5 + run in the tournament. 

Now imagine if he had been playing the likes of OSU, MSU, UM, IU, WISC, etc etc. He won't get to beat up on NIU and the likes anymore.


His conference record in the MAC is not impressive at all, at 34-30, nearly .500. His overall record is slightly better, but not as good as Bruce Weber's was even.

Sure, he has led your team to a good season this year, with a great finish, but it won't be so easy this year. He won't be able to win the B1G conference tournament like he did the MAC tournament for Ohio. 

This is too big of a gamble for the U of I, which already has enough to deal with. 


This is a lack of critical thinking. His first year, he had zero of his own recruits as O'Shea bailed on us late in the game. There is nobody left from that bad team.

FACT: Every Groce team has had a better record than the team before it.
FACT: This was the first season with the roster composed entirely of Groce recruits.
FACT: This season set a school record in wins.
FACT: Groce is beating out BCS teams for recruits right here in Athens.

And he's done it with a MAC-level budget. You're giving a false syllogism; you can't compare MAC success with Big Ten success because the situations are not analogous. He wouldn't be dealing with Ohio's budget at Illinois, he'd be dealing with Illinois. The fact of the matter is that he has built Ohio into a successful program with a budget that is outside the top 100. Imagine what he could do with the resources your school can provide him.

And sure, he won't have NIU. But he'll have Penn State and Northwestern and Iowa. And he won't have to win the conference tournament to get into the Big Dance.

And who are you going to get that's better at this point?


The recruits he has brought to Ohio would not cut it here. He will try to bring MAC talent to the B1G, and it will never work out for us that way. The guy has ONE good season and is somehow qualified for the Illinois job (which, however good that is is up to opinion). There is nothing to judge this guy by other than his records, which would not be acceptable at Ohio, and not acceptable at Illinois. The guy only wins half of the games he coaches, now i'm sure with next years Ohio team that will be better, but after that, who knows?

This, on top of the fact that he has no loyalty or connections to Illinois. He doesn't even know the colors of the school, and we need someone who truly cares about Illinois basketball, not someone here for the money.




Those recruits "cut it" against one of your league champs on a neutral floor.




Well we've beaten the B1G league champs MSU and OSU, but we still had a terrible team. Winning one game means little over the span of a season.

You think Groce can succeed at Illinois? I don't know. I really, really, really doubt it.
PA Bobcat Fan
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:18 PM
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I read somewhere that Dennis Rodman is looking for work too.
OUVan
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:20 PM
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Illinoisfan wrote:expand_more
Well we've beaten the B1G league champs MSU and OSU, but we still had a terrible team. Winning one game means little over the span of a season.

You think Groce can succeed at Illinois? I don't know. I really, really, really doubt it.


Just for the record, who would you be looking to hire?
athena
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:20 PM
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You're absolutely right. You should just hire Michelle O'Bama's brother.
cincybobcat99
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:20 PM
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PA Bobcat Fan wrote:expand_more
I read somewhere that Dennis Rodman is looking for work too.


Has both Chicago and Detroit connections!
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:21 PM
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Illinoisfan wrote:expand_more
He will try to bring MAC talent to the B1G, and it will never work out for us that way. 


You are either a troll or just dumb.
Illinoisfan
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:23 PM
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athena wrote:expand_more
You're absolutely right. You should just hire Michelle O'Bama's brother.


Groce is 100x better than that guy.

I mean dear god, that guy is baaaad.
Bobcat110
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:23 PM
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Illinoisfan wrote:expand_more
The recruits he has brought to Ohio would not cut it here. He will try to bring MAC talent to the B1G, and it will never work out for us that way. The guy has ONE good season and is somehow qualified for the Illinois job (which, however good that is is up to opinion). There is nothing to judge this guy by other than his records, which would not be acceptable at Ohio, and not acceptable at Illinois. The guy only wins half of the games he coaches, now i'm sure with next years Ohio team that will be better, but after that, who knows?

This, on top of the fact that he has no loyalty or connections to Illinois. He doesn't even know the colors of the school, and we need someone who truly cares about Illinois basketball, not someone here for the money.



Truth man....Groce's maximum knowledge of Illinois is that it's a flyover state on the way to St. Louis.  We agree that we don't want you to have him and you don't want him.  Not sure why anyone's trying to convince you that you actually should want him.
Shawn Sellers
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:24 PM
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PA Bobcat Fan wrote:expand_more
I read somewhere that Dennis Rodman is looking for work too.


Rodman is perfect. During several fights that took place during his NBA years, it was revealed that he does indeed bleed orange and blue. Can we get a 'Hire Dennis Rodman' facebook campaign going?
CATman
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:24 PM
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What I find interesting in all this talk about budgets is that Illinois only had a net athletic income of $1.8 million in 2010/2011.

Highest Net Income Amongst Athletics Departments

Given they owe Weber 3.9 million via a contract settlement, they don't seem to be in great shape if they're going to pay another coach 2+ million a year. 

They're obviously operating in the black but their margin for error is a little smaller than I thought it might be. If nothing else, it is interesting...
JSF
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:26 PM
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shabamon wrote:expand_more
If they want a good black coach, Reggie Theus should be getting a look.


Theus could very well be successful and LOLinois. Wouldn't be a bad hire.
athena
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:29 PM
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Illinoisfan wrote:expand_more
You're absolutely right. You should just hire Michelle O'Bama's brother.


Groce is 100x better than that guy.

I mean dear god, that guy is baaaad.


Another suggestion.... we know a guy named Tim O'Shea who might be worth a look.
OakStreet
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Posted: 3/28/2012 4:33 PM
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shabamon wrote:expand_more
Davis? Get fired at UAB and increase pay at Illinois. That would be a hoot to see.


I read that Davis said the reason he was fired at UAB was attendance. Illinois would not have that problem because its fans and their Orange Flush are so awesome! At IU, the biggest problem Davis had was that he couldn't land the best recruits in Indiana, although he recruited well in other states. At Illinois, he wouldn't have to get the best recruits in Indiana! Also, he didn't get along with the fanbase at IU, which is perfect because fans at Illinois don't get along with the fanbase at IU.   
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