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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: A quick thought on Groce/Illinois...
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OhioStunter
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:35 PM
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JSF wrote:expand_more
This wait is killing me as much as it is you 


At this point, it's fun.


This is worse than waiting for the official review of the Akron free throw tip at the MAC Championship Game...


...yay page 22
Last Edited: 3/28/2012 3:35:56 PM by OhioStunter
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:38 PM
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Illinoisfan wrote:expand_more
He would be better off to stay at Ohio, and establish a good thing there, then maybe look at some other offers, but we (Illinois) are simply not ready at this point in my opinion.


Fixed that for you.  He'll win there, but your fans are Hell bent on "one of your own" - be it Illini, South-sider, etc.  Your blinders are bleeding your program - that is a you problem, not a Groce problem. 
Athens 2 Jacksonville
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:39 PM
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Lash
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:41 PM
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CatBehindEnemyLines wrote:expand_more
I know its in another thread but they did re-open the black jersey and shorts sale!

http://www.ohiobobcats.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/03281...


I noticed the banner says "13-Time MAC Tournament Champions." They might want to correct that.


Somebody must have been reading this because when I clicked on the link, the banner had "13-Time NCAA Tournament Participant"


I did notice that also, I went back to see as soon as I saw the comment on it.  Maybe those in charge are watching and reading!!!


Are you sure it said "13-Time MAC Tournament Champions." I remember it saying "13-Time NCAA Tournament Participant" days ago, but oh well. Doesn't really matter.
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:41 PM
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OUVan wrote:expand_more
but he is simply not ready at this point in my opinion.


Based on what?


I mostly base that assumption on his lack of success in the MAC regular season. Sure, he won the MAC tournament title and made a good run in the tournament, but he's finished 2 out of 4 seasons with a losing conference record, One mediocre 9-7 finish, and this year's 11-5 + run in the tournament. 

Now imagine if he had been playing the likes of OSU, MSU, UM, IU, WISC, etc etc. He won't get to beat up on NIU and the likes anymore.


His conference record in the MAC is not impressive at all, at 34-30, nearly .500. His overall record is slightly better, but not as good as Bruce Weber's was even.

Sure, he has led your team to a good season this year, with a great finish, but it won't be so easy this year. He won't be able to win the B1G conference tournament like he did the MAC tournament for Ohio. 

This is too big of a gamble for the U of I, which already has enough to deal with. 
Lash
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:42 PM
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Athens 2 Jacksonville wrote:expand_more


Not sure if I believe SB Nation Chicago
Scott Woods
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:42 PM
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Athens 2 Jacksonville wrote:expand_more


That was from yesterday.
Doc Bobcat
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:42 PM
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Athens 2 Jacksonville wrote:expand_more


Cancel the yard sale....no wait....from yesterday.....yard sale back on.
Last Edited: 3/28/2012 3:43:31 PM by Doc Bobcat
cincybobcat99
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:43 PM
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Athens 2 Jacksonville wrote:expand_more


I hope that is a joke. You do realize that was yesterday's post.

Shawn Sellers
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:43 PM
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Illinoisfan wrote:expand_more
I think he'll be able to win at Illinois when given the chance. Remember, Groce started out with back-to-back ninth-place finishes in the MAC. You think Illinois would accept that?

Right now the Ohio basketball program is in a better position than Illinois.


Different starting points though and also resources. Illinois has the ability to #1 Get the players that can turn the program around very quickly. #2 Illinois is not void of talent, they do have some good young players as long as he can keep them

Illinois was a team that beat Gonzaga, Ohio State and Michigan State this year. But just totally fell apart and once the coaching rumors kicked in the team went down the toilet. So Groce can think to himself that my style is what they need and I can turn them around quickly.


I don't disagree. But with six B1G teams in the dance this year (including four in the Sweet 16) and Northwestern on the bubble and improving, that's a very tough set of conference obstacles -- especially for a new coach.

Not saying he's not up to the challenge. Not saying he can't do it. I'm saying it is going to be tough to make an immediate impact and I'm not sure that Illinois fans will be patient -- especially with what's already gone down so far...


True.

Illinois fans expect very little out of Groce, and with the horrible state of  the program lately, he' d be on a very short leash. He would be better off to stay at Ohio, and establish a good thing there, then maybe look at some other offers, but he is simply not ready at this point in my opinion.

Simply, like I have said before, it is better for him to stay at Ohio. He's obviously loved there!


I agree with you. It's always a difficult thing to assess whether a coach is ready for the next step. A few years back there was a young football coach at Bowling Green named Urban Meyer. Michigan State was searching for their coach, and I said to a few MSU friends that Urban should be their man! Instead, the Spartans hired John L. Smith, and we all know where that went. That same year, Urban Meyer went to Utah, then two years later went to Florida. Two national titles and some time off, he lands at Ohio State. I always wondered what would have happened had Meyer been hired by Michigan State. But there is really no way to know for sure how it all would have worked out.
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:43 PM
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Athens 2 Jacksonville wrote:expand_more


That is a terrible misreading of the Sun-Times, which has reported no such thing.
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:45 PM
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Illinoisfan wrote:expand_more
His conference record in the MAC is not impressive at all, at 34-30, nearly .500. His overall record is slightly better, but not as good as Bruce Weber's was even.



Just ask TOS, that is life in the MAC.
Athens 2 Jacksonville
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:46 PM
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"Doh"  And on my first post, none the less.  I thought I had some REAL breaking news!  Sorry guys and hello!

Illinoisfan
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:47 PM
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Shawn Sellers wrote:expand_more
I think he'll be able to win at Illinois when given the chance. Remember, Groce started out with back-to-back ninth-place finishes in the MAC. You think Illinois would accept that?

Right now the Ohio basketball program is in a better position than Illinois.


Different starting points though and also resources. Illinois has the ability to #1 Get the players that can turn the program around very quickly. #2 Illinois is not void of talent, they do have some good young players as long as he can keep them

Illinois was a team that beat Gonzaga, Ohio State and Michigan State this year. But just totally fell apart and once the coaching rumors kicked in the team went down the toilet. So Groce can think to himself that my style is what they need and I can turn them around quickly.


I don't disagree. But with six B1G teams in the dance this year (including four in the Sweet 16) and Northwestern on the bubble and improving, that's a very tough set of conference obstacles -- especially for a new coach.

Not saying he's not up to the challenge. Not saying he can't do it. I'm saying it is going to be tough to make an immediate impact and I'm not sure that Illinois fans will be patient -- especially with what's already gone down so far...


True.

Illinois fans expect very little out of Groce, and with the horrible state of  the program lately, he' d be on a very short leash. He would be better off to stay at Ohio, and establish a good thing there, then maybe look at some other offers, but he is simply not ready at this point in my opinion.

Simply, like I have said before, it is better for him to stay at Ohio. He's obviously loved there!


I agree with you. It's always a difficult thing to assess whether a coach is ready for the next step. A few years back there was a young football coach at Bowling Green named Urban Meyer. Michigan State was searching for their coach, and I said to a few MSU friends that Urban should be their man! Instead, the Spartans hired John L. Smith, and we all know where that went. That same year, Urban Meyer went to Utah, then two years later went to Florida. Two national titles and some time off, he lands at Ohio State. I always wondered what would have happened had Meyer been hired by Michigan State. But there is really no way to know for sure how it all would have worked out.


True, you never know who you're getting or passing up. 

But it could be poison for the Illini program at this point, which is already sick.
Lash
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:49 PM
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Why is Bobcat Love creating more threads after creating this one?

The man should be proud.
JSF
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:50 PM
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Illinoisfan wrote:expand_more
but he is simply not ready at this point in my opinion.


Based on what?


I mostly base that assumption on his lack of success in the MAC regular season. Sure, he won the MAC tournament title and made a good run in the tournament, but he's finished 2 out of 4 seasons with a losing conference record, One mediocre 9-7 finish, and this year's 11-5 + run in the tournament. 

Now imagine if he had been playing the likes of OSU, MSU, UM, IU, WISC, etc etc. He won't get to beat up on NIU and the likes anymore.


His conference record in the MAC is not impressive at all, at 34-30, nearly .500. His overall record is slightly better, but not as good as Bruce Weber's was even.

Sure, he has led your team to a good season this year, with a great finish, but it won't be so easy this year. He won't be able to win the B1G conference tournament like he did the MAC tournament for Ohio. 

This is too big of a gamble for the U of I, which already has enough to deal with. 


This is a lack of critical thinking. His first year, he had zero of his own recruits as O'Shea bailed on us late in the game. There is nobody left from that bad team.

FACT: Every Groce team has had a better record than the team before it.
FACT: This was the first season with the roster composed entirely of Groce recruits.
FACT: This season set a school record in wins.
FACT: Groce is beating out BCS teams for recruits right here in Athens.

And he's done it with a MAC-level budget. You're giving a false syllogism; you can't compare MAC success with Big Ten success because the situations are not analogous. He wouldn't be dealing with Ohio's budget at Illinois, he'd be dealing with Illinois. The fact of the matter is that he has built Ohio into a successful program with a budget that is outside the top 100. Imagine what he could do with the resources your school can provide him.

And sure, he won't have NIU. But he'll have Penn State and Northwestern and Iowa. And he won't have to win the conference tournament to get into the Big Dance.

And who are you going to get that's better at this point?
OUVan
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:51 PM
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Illinoisfan wrote:expand_more
I mostly base that assumption on his lack of success in the MAC regular season. Sure, he won the MAC tournament title and made a good run in the tournament, but he's finished 2 out of 4 seasons with a losing conference record, One mediocre 9-7 finish, and this year's 11-5 + run in the tournament. 

Now imagine if he had been playing the likes of OSU, MSU, UM, IU, WISC, etc etc. He won't get to beat up on NIU and the likes anymore.


His conference record in the MAC is not impressive at all, at 34-30, nearly .500. His overall record is slightly better, but not as good as Bruce Weber's was even.

Sure, he has led your team to a good season this year, with a great finish, but it won't be so easy this year. He won't be able to win the B1G conference tournament like he did the MAC tournament for Ohio. 

This is too big of a gamble for the U of I, which already has enough to deal with. 


Well, hopefully for our sake your people fall into the same trap of hiring a resume instead of a basketball coach..
Bobcat110
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:51 PM
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Man, I love the support were getting! Love thank u!!

OhioStunter
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:53 PM
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Athens 2 Jacksonville wrote:expand_more

"Doh"  And on my first post, none the less.  I thought I had some REAL breaking news!  Sorry guys and hello!



You'll get better, rookie. Welcome aboard the BobcatAttack Express.
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:53 PM
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JSF wrote:expand_more
but he is simply not ready at this point in my opinion.


Based on what?


I mostly base that assumption on his lack of success in the MAC regular season. Sure, he won the MAC tournament title and made a good run in the tournament, but he's finished 2 out of 4 seasons with a losing conference record, One mediocre 9-7 finish, and this year's 11-5 + run in the tournament. 

Now imagine if he had been playing the likes of OSU, MSU, UM, IU, WISC, etc etc. He won't get to beat up on NIU and the likes anymore.


His conference record in the MAC is not impressive at all, at 34-30, nearly .500. His overall record is slightly better, but not as good as Bruce Weber's was even.

Sure, he has led your team to a good season this year, with a great finish, but it won't be so easy this year. He won't be able to win the B1G conference tournament like he did the MAC tournament for Ohio. 

This is too big of a gamble for the U of I, which already has enough to deal with. 


This is a lack of critical thinking. His first year, he had zero of his own recruits as O'Shea bailed on us late in the game. There is nobody left from that bad team.

FACT: Every Groce team has had a better record than the team before it.
FACT: This was the first season with the roster composed entirely of Groce recruits.
FACT: This season set a school record in wins.
FACT: Groce is beating out BCS teams for recruits right here in Athens.

And he's done it with a MAC-level budget. You're giving a false syllogism; you can't compare MAC success with Big Ten success because the situations are not analogous. He wouldn't be dealing with Ohio's budget at Illinois, he'd be dealing with Illinois. The fact of the matter is that he has built Ohio into a successful program with a budget that is outside the top 100. Imagine what he could do with the resources your school can provide him.

And sure, he won't have NIU. But he'll have Penn State and Northwestern and Iowa. And he won't have to win the conference tournament to get into the Big Dance.

And who are you going to get that's better at this point?


Awwwhhh, nawwwwwww.  He just went all Forcier on you!
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:56 PM
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JSF wrote:expand_more
but he is simply not ready at this point in my opinion.


Based on what?


I mostly base that assumption on his lack of success in the MAC regular season. Sure, he won the MAC tournament title and made a good run in the tournament, but he's finished 2 out of 4 seasons with a losing conference record, One mediocre 9-7 finish, and this year's 11-5 + run in the tournament. 

Now imagine if he had been playing the likes of OSU, MSU, UM, IU, WISC, etc etc. He won't get to beat up on NIU and the likes anymore.


His conference record in the MAC is not impressive at all, at 34-30, nearly .500. His overall record is slightly better, but not as good as Bruce Weber's was even.

Sure, he has led your team to a good season this year, with a great finish, but it won't be so easy this year. He won't be able to win the B1G conference tournament like he did the MAC tournament for Ohio. 

This is too big of a gamble for the U of I, which already has enough to deal with. 


This is a lack of critical thinking. His first year, he had zero of his own recruits as O'Shea bailed on us late in the game. There is nobody left from that bad team.

FACT: Every Groce team has had a better record than the team before it.
FACT: This was the first season with the roster composed entirely of Groce recruits.
FACT: This season set a school record in wins.
FACT: Groce is beating out BCS teams for recruits right here in Athens.

And he's done it with a MAC-level budget. You're giving a false syllogism; you can't compare MAC success with Big Ten success because the situations are not analogous. He wouldn't be dealing with Ohio's budget at Illinois, he'd be dealing with Illinois. The fact of the matter is that he has built Ohio into a successful program with a budget that is outside the top 100. Imagine what he could do with the resources your school can provide him.

And sure, he won't have NIU. But he'll have Penn State and Northwestern and Iowa. And he won't have to win the conference tournament to get into the Big Dance.

And who are you going to get that's better at this point?


The recruits he has brought to Ohio would not cut it here. He will try to bring MAC talent to the B1G, and it will never work out for us that way. The guy has ONE good season and is somehow qualified for the Illinois job (which, however good that is is up to opinion). There is nothing to judge this guy by other than his records, which would not be acceptable at Ohio, and not acceptable at Illinois. The guy only wins half of the games he coaches, now i'm sure with next years Ohio team that will be better, but after that, who knows?

This, on top of the fact that he has no loyalty or connections to Illinois. He doesn't even know the colors of the school, and we need someone who truly cares about Illinois basketball, not someone here for the money.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:57 PM
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Well I'm still holding out hope that John will see the light and stay at Ohio for the long haul. However, if he goes to Illinois I think this has all the "look and feel" of Nee to Nebraska a few decades back. He would have been better off staying at Ohio for at least another five years.
Last Edited: 3/28/2012 3:59:57 PM by OhioCatFan
OUVan
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:58 PM
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JSF wrote:expand_more
And sure, he won't have NIU. But he'll have Penn State and Northwestern and Iowa. And he won't have to win the conference tournament to get into the Big Dance.

And who are you going to get that's better at this point?


Bingo. But let's not forget how out of place he looked against Michigan.  34-30, baby.
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:59 PM
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JSF wrote:expand_more
but he is simply not ready at this point in my opinion.


Based on what?


I mostly base that assumption on his lack of success in the MAC regular season. Sure, he won the MAC tournament title and made a good run in the tournament, but he's finished 2 out of 4 seasons with a losing conference record, One mediocre 9-7 finish, and this year's 11-5 + run in the tournament. 

Now imagine if he had been playing the likes of OSU, MSU, UM, IU, WISC, etc etc. He won't get to beat up on NIU and the likes anymore.


His conference record in the MAC is not impressive at all, at 34-30, nearly .500. His overall record is slightly better, but not as good as Bruce Weber's was even.

Sure, he has led your team to a good season this year, with a great finish, but it won't be so easy this year. He won't be able to win the B1G conference tournament like he did the MAC tournament for Ohio. 

This is too big of a gamble for the U of I, which already has enough to deal with. 


This is a lack of critical thinking. His first year, he had zero of his own recruits as O'Shea bailed on us late in the game. There is nobody left from that bad team.

FACT: Every Groce team has had a better record than the team before it.
FACT: This was the first season with the roster composed entirely of Groce recruits.
FACT: This season set a school record in wins.
FACT: Groce is beating out BCS teams for recruits right here in Athens.

And he's done it with a MAC-level budget. You're giving a false syllogism; you can't compare MAC success with Big Ten success because the situations are not analogous. He wouldn't be dealing with Ohio's budget at Illinois, he'd be dealing with Illinois. The fact of the matter is that he has built Ohio into a successful program with a budget that is outside the top 100. Imagine what he could do with the resources your school can provide him.

And sure, he won't have NIU. But he'll have Penn State and Northwestern and Iowa. And he won't have to win the conference tournament to get into the Big Dance.

And who are you going to get that's better at this point?


Shhh

Reggie Theus is your man, Groce would be a terrible fit.
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:59 PM
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Illinoisfan wrote:expand_more
but he is simply not ready at this point in my opinion.


Based on what?


I mostly base that assumption on his lack of success in the MAC regular season. Sure, he won the MAC tournament title and made a good run in the tournament, but he's finished 2 out of 4 seasons with a losing conference record, One mediocre 9-7 finish, and this year's 11-5 + run in the tournament. 

Now imagine if he had been playing the likes of OSU, MSU, UM, IU, WISC, etc etc. He won't get to beat up on NIU and the likes anymore.


His conference record in the MAC is not impressive at all, at 34-30, nearly .500. His overall record is slightly better, but not as good as Bruce Weber's was even.

Sure, he has led your team to a good season this year, with a great finish, but it won't be so easy this year. He won't be able to win the B1G conference tournament like he did the MAC tournament for Ohio. 

This is too big of a gamble for the U of I, which already has enough to deal with. 


This is a lack of critical thinking. His first year, he had zero of his own recruits as O'Shea bailed on us late in the game. There is nobody left from that bad team.

FACT: Every Groce team has had a better record than the team before it.
FACT: This was the first season with the roster composed entirely of Groce recruits.
FACT: This season set a school record in wins.
FACT: Groce is beating out BCS teams for recruits right here in Athens.

And he's done it with a MAC-level budget. You're giving a false syllogism; you can't compare MAC success with Big Ten success because the situations are not analogous. He wouldn't be dealing with Ohio's budget at Illinois, he'd be dealing with Illinois. The fact of the matter is that he has built Ohio into a successful program with a budget that is outside the top 100. Imagine what he could do with the resources your school can provide him.

And sure, he won't have NIU. But he'll have Penn State and Northwestern and Iowa. And he won't have to win the conference tournament to get into the Big Dance.

And who are you going to get that's better at this point?


The recruits he has brought to Ohio would not cut it here. He will try to bring MAC talent to the B1G, and it will never work out for us that way. The guy has ONE good season and is somehow qualified for the Illinois job (which, however good that is is up to opinion). There is nothing to judge this guy by other than his records, which would not be acceptable at Ohio, and not acceptable at Illinois. The guy only wins half of the games he coaches, now i'm sure with next years Ohio team that will be better, but after that, who knows?

This, on top of the fact that he has no loyalty or connections to Illinois. He doesn't even know the colors of the school, and we need someone who truly cares about Illinois basketball, not someone here for the money.




Those recruits "cut it" against one of your league champs on a neutral floor.


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