Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Holtmann To Louisville? Should We Be Worried?
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FJC31
2/20/2023 10:25 AM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Well...now the tide has turned to the other direction with the same "should we be worried" question coming from it. OSU has now lost 8 in a row and 13 of 14. Particularly if they lose out or only win 1 or 2 down the stretch...You really have to wonder if Holtmann is in jeopardy. The steep decline is startling as they were a solid team at the beginning of the year, being inches away from beating #1 Purdue to go to 3-0 in the Big Ten. Now they are consistently losing in blowout fashion.

So if it happens...should we be worried? I would agree that right now, Boals and his resume would be too much of a stretch hire for the OSU job. But if we win the MAC tourney and show well in the NCAA tourney? I could definitely see it. While the overall record won't blow anyone away, the story would be he came in and turned the program around, made it to the NCAA (and beat Virginia), then lost a player to the NBA and 2 others to high major programs and still got back to the dance.
Even with a MAC title, I’d make the argument that Groce would be a better hire for OSU at this stage. Both he and Boals essentially the same type of hire, but Groce overall as a far better resume to date.

However, OSU may look at both as too similar to Holtmann and decide to move on from the Matta tree entirely.
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SBH
2/20/2023 10:43 AM
I agree that Groce would be the better hire.
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OhioCatFan
2/20/2023 10:58 AM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
However, OSU may look at both as too similar to Holtmann and decide to move on from the Matta tree entirely.
That would be my guess. I think they'll open up the piggy bank and try to lure someone like Johne Calipari, Kelvin Sampson, or Nate Oats. If "monwy talks," as so man on this board believe, those hires are in reach at the Evli Empire in Cowtown.
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Victory
2/20/2023 11:08 AM
I think we will eventually lose Boals but it doesn't feel to me like this is going to be the year. This is just an OK year for the Bobcats. It isn't anything so far that grabs a lot of additional attention to Boals' resume. Of course, it is never out of the realm of possibility when you have a good coach.
Last Edited: 2/20/2023 11:08:40 AM by Victory
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Andrew Ruck
2/20/2023 11:13 AM
I could not disagree more that OSU would prefer Groce. Their resumes are NOT similar. Or I'll say, if we had a solid March run this year, Boals 2023 would be Groce 2012. Groce to OSU would be seen as "already failed miserably in the Big Ten" and be a very tough sell. Boals could be sold as more of an up and comer.
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cc-cat
2/20/2023 11:43 AM
I don't see either one ending up in Columbus. Boals hasn't blown the doors off here and isn't on a huge ascension (even with some March magic). Groce has a better resume, but I don't see OSU (or their fans) accepting a failed Illinois retread (from their perspective) - or "stealing" Ohio's coach for that matter - with respect to Boals. With both it is the "domino effect" that could come into play (Groce more than Boals).
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FJC31
2/20/2023 11:52 AM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
I could not disagree more that OSU would prefer Groce. Their resumes are NOT similar. Or I'll say, if we had a solid March run this year, Boals 2023 would be Groce 2012. Groce to OSU would be seen as "already failed miserably in the Big Ten" and be a very tough sell. Boals could be sold as more of an up and comer.
You’re right that they’re not similar. Groce is far more accomplished at this point than Boals and they’re 1 year apart in age. So, I’m not sure you could sell Boals as more of an up a comer to OSU’s fan base. If I recall, even Butler fans weren’t exactly enamored at the idea of Boals last year.

It would legit take a Sweet 16 run this season (not happening, I’ll gladly eat my words) for Boals to be even within striking distance of consideration for OSU. I’m an huge fan of Boals; but with each passing year, it becomes less likely that a P5 job (that makes sense) comes calling barring a 2012 run. His resume just isn’t there IMO.

All said, I think OSU goes in a different direction than both Groce and Boals.
Last Edited: 2/20/2023 11:55:22 AM by FJC31
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Cellis033
2/20/2023 11:59 AM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Well...now the tide has turned to the other direction with the same "should we be worried" question coming from it. OSU has now lost 8 in a row and 13 of 14. Particularly if they lose out or only win 1 or 2 down the stretch...You really have to wonder if Holtmann is in jeopardy. The steep decline is startling as they were a solid team at the beginning of the year, being inches away from beating #1 Purdue to go to 3-0 in the Big Ten. Now they are consistently losing in blowout fashion.

So if it happens...should we be worried? I would agree that right now, Boals and his resume would be too much of a stretch hire for the OSU job. But if we win the MAC tourney and show well in the NCAA tourney? I could definitely see it. While the overall record won't blow anyone away, the story would be he came in and turned the program around, made it to the NCAA (and beat Virginia), then lost a player to the NBA and 2 others to high major programs and still got back to the dance.
Coming from an O$U crazy family, the fanbase is pretty much about to assemble a pitchforks and torches gang to chase Holtmann out of town even after the athletic director gave him a vote of confidence. He's gotten them to the dance every year up to this point, but they have not reached the Sweet 16 since 2013. I can see it going either way, but losing is a bad word up there.
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JSF
2/20/2023 2:07 PM
After the joy of Groce Watch in 2012, I'll never again worry about this stuff. Ain't nuthin' I can do about it, so I'm only doing myself bad if I let stuff outside my control get my sphincter puckered.

Ohio State is a weird gig. With their pocketbooks and ambitions, they should regularly be a strong team, right? But sustained success hasn't borne out in decades.
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M.D.W.S.T
2/20/2023 2:34 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Well...now the tide has turned to the other direction with the same "should we be worried" question coming from it. OSU has now lost 8 in a row and 13 of 14. Particularly if they lose out or only win 1 or 2 down the stretch...You really have to wonder if Holtmann is in jeopardy. The steep decline is startling as they were a solid team at the beginning of the year, being inches away from beating #1 Purdue to go to 3-0 in the Big Ten. Now they are consistently losing in blowout fashion.

So if it happens...should we be worried? I would agree that right now, Boals and his resume would be too much of a stretch hire for the OSU job. But if we win the MAC tourney and show well in the NCAA tourney? I could definitely see it. While the overall record won't blow anyone away, the story would be he came in and turned the program around, made it to the NCAA (and beat Virginia), then lost a player to the NBA and 2 others to high major programs and still got back to the dance.
A Holtmann for Boals switcheroo?

Could be worse. (Thorton would still be my #1, though a high major assistant job might be pretty lucrative to him)
Last Edited: 2/20/2023 2:35:26 PM by M.D.W.S.T
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FearLeon
2/20/2023 3:00 PM
I think Boals would have to make a run to the sweet 16 for Ohio State to come into play.
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JSF
2/20/2023 3:58 PM
Thanks for reminding me we could've hired Holtmann in 2012.
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OhioCatFan
2/20/2023 6:49 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
After the joy of Groce Watch in 2012, I'll never again worry about this stuff. Ain't nuthin' I can do about it, so I'm only doing myself bad if I let stuff outside my control get my sphincter puckered.

Ohio State is a weird gig. With their pocketbooks and ambitions, they should regularly be a strong team, right? But sustained success hasn't borne out in decades.
I agree with both of these sentiments.

On point #1, we have a large number of BAers who worry about that stuff constantly. Look at the number of posts we have about how we are likely to lose one of our coaches if X, Y, or Z happens. The most classic of which was the "fire TA threads" in 2021 on the football forum that transformed a year later into we are going to lose TA to a P5 program, so woe is us. [To be honest, I was one of the ignorant "Fire TA" crew during the 2021 campaign. I never joined the woe is us, he'll-leave-at-the-first-P5-offer crowd.]

On point #2, they've never quite gotten over the time when they were destined to win the national championship, only to have that upstart school from SW Ohio beat them two straight years -- 1961 & '62 in the championship game. How could a team with such super stars as Jerry Lucas and Bill Havlicek (Don't forget bench warmer Bobby Knight) ever lose to the Bearcats? The shame of it all. One prominent Ohio poltican, I forget the details, purportedly lost votes in the next election by saying halfway through the season in 1961 that everybody in Ohio is rooting for the Buckeyes to repeat as national champtions, forgetting in his euphoria that Cincinnati was located in Ohio and had been rising up in recent weeks in the polls. Ohio State fans be they politicans or Walmart alumni are very tunnel visioned and expect their team to excel every year in every sport or "know the reason why." In their eyes every Ohioan should realize that OSU is the pride of the Buckeye State and the central focus of all sports fans in the state. This myopia does, indeed, make coaching there a "weird gig."
Last Edited: 2/20/2023 6:52:38 PM by OhioCatFan
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GoCats105
2/21/2023 1:09 AM
JSF wrote:expand_more
Auburn will regret this decision in the very near future, although Auburn seems to have a high tolerance for slimeballs (see: Pat Dye, Cam Newton, Gene Chizik, Terry Bowden, et al).
Will they? They were a complete non-factor in basketball before Pearl and, as you've noted, they don't seem to care when they get busted for breaking rules. Seems like it's a good fit on both sides.
Yeah they're winning basketball games I think thats all that matters. This is the same school whose Defensive Coordinator staged a coup to get Gus Malzahn fired in hopes of himself getting the job, but he didn't and they hired Bryan Harsin which turned into a completely separate mess. Auburn athletics is the gift the keeps on giving, weirdness wise.
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100%Cat
2/21/2023 9:21 AM
Victory wrote:expand_more
I think we will eventually lose Boals but it doesn't feel to me like this is going to be the year. This is just an OK year for the Bobcats. It isn't anything so far that grabs a lot of additional attention to Boals' resume. Of course, it is never out of the realm of possibility when you have a good coach.
While I agree that, on paper, this year doesn't jump out anyone for Ohio Basketball, I hope we can appreciate the coaching job Boals has done this year. We lose Sears and BVP to top-10 Power 5 programs. The roster was gutted. We're relying on Dwight's reconstructed knee and a mashup of freshmen and mostly transfers with some spotty contributions from program "lifers." I know we aren't at the top of the MAC and I don't expect a tourney title in Cleveland...but I do think Boals has done a really good job with this team this year.
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Victory
2/21/2023 10:38 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
On point #1, we have a large number of BAers who worry about that stuff constantly. Look at the number of posts we have about how we are likely to lose one of our coaches if X, Y, or Z happens. The most classic of which was the "fire TA threads" in 2021 on the football forum that transformed a year later into we are going to lose TA to a P5 program, so woe is us. [To be honest, I was one of the ignorant "Fire TA" crew during the 2021 campaign. I never joined the woe is us, he'll-leave-at-the-first-P5-offer crowd.]
I think that this thinking is ingrained in Ohio Basketball more than other Ohio sports like football or that a lot of other similar schools have with their basketball programs. It comes from the last quarter century of circumstances. We have been blessed with winning more NCAA tournament games than nearly all similar programs. But it has also been a curse in a way that probably no program in the country has experienced.

A mid-major program hopes to bring in a good coach, let them bring in a group of players, and then build up to a crescendo with a really good season to two before the coach leaves. Basically, all of our tournament wins have come during a "pretty good" season when a still young core gelled late in year and did something mid-major programs rarely do the year before that crescendo should have happened. We never got the potentially ranked team or outright MAC regular season title or 30 win season. I admit to the this line of thinking in the recent past, "Please don't let us win an NCAA tournament this this year and 'WASTE' this young core or talent on this so far good but not great season." It is a type of self-torture that comes only with a possibly unique history of blessings and curses that really belongs only to us 40+ aged Bobcats

Now, this line of self-torture is probably irrelevant now. You don't now how many guys on that pretty good team with hardly any senior contribution will be back next year no matter if the coach is so there is much less downside too winning to much with a young core.
Last Edited: 2/21/2023 11:53:14 AM by Victory
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lovebobcat
2/21/2023 5:04 PM
100%Cat wrote:expand_more
While I agree that, on paper, this year doesn't jump out anyone for Ohio Basketball, I hope we can appreciate the coaching job Boals has done this year. We lose Sears and BVP to top-10 Power 5 programs. The roster was gutted. We're relying on Dwight's reconstructed knee and a mashup of freshmen and mostly transfers with some spotty contributions from program "lifers." I know we aren't at the top of the MAC and I don't expect a tourney title in Cleveland...but I do think Boals has done a really good job with this team this year.
This.
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bobcat 2000
2/21/2023 5:57 PM
you got a good pont here.this is not a bad team. a bad team wouild be the 97-98 team. they went 5-21 and lost by 50 to ball state. well never have a team that bad again
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M.D.W.S.T
2/21/2023 7:53 PM
100%Cat wrote:expand_more
While I agree that, on paper, this year doesn't jump out anyone for Ohio Basketball, I hope we can appreciate the coaching job Boals has done this year. We lose Sears and BVP to top-10 Power 5 programs. The roster was gutted. We're relying on Dwight's reconstructed knee and a mashup of freshmen and mostly transfers with some spotty contributions from program "lifers." I know we aren't at the top of the MAC and I don't expect a tourney title in Cleveland...but I do think Boals has done a really good job with this team this year.
[/QUOTE]OU is at the bottom of the top, which is honestly right around where I expected them to be - record wise. (talent wise... still not sure what happened, but in the portal era you're gonna have to take some swings)

Even though the season hasn't gone like I had hoped, the current 5 game winning streak has REALLY put some lipstick on this pig.

[QUOTE=SBH] I agree that Groce would be the better hire.
Correct.
Last Edited: 2/21/2023 7:57:56 PM by M.D.W.S.T
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spongeBOB CATpants
2/28/2023 3:46 PM
Cellis033 wrote:expand_more
Well...now the tide has turned to the other direction with the same "should we be worried" question coming from it. OSU has now lost 8 in a row and 13 of 14. Particularly if they lose out or only win 1 or 2 down the stretch...You really have to wonder if Holtmann is in jeopardy. The steep decline is startling as they were a solid team at the beginning of the year, being inches away from beating #1 Purdue to go to 3-0 in the Big Ten. Now they are consistently losing in blowout fashion.

So if it happens...should we be worried? I would agree that right now, Boals and his resume would be too much of a stretch hire for the OSU job. But if we win the MAC tourney and show well in the NCAA tourney? I could definitely see it. While the overall record won't blow anyone away, the story would be he came in and turned the program around, made it to the NCAA (and beat Virginia), then lost a player to the NBA and 2 others to high major programs and still got back to the dance.
Coming from an O$U crazy family, the fanbase is pretty much about to assemble a pitchforks and torches gang to chase Holtmann out of town even after the athletic director gave him a vote of confidence. He's gotten them to the dance every year up to this point, but they have not reached the Sweet 16 since 2013. I can see it going either way, but losing is a bad word up there.
To be fair, O$U fans have the pitchforks ready to go for pretty much any loss.
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Cellis033
2/28/2023 9:05 PM
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:expand_more
Well...now the tide has turned to the other direction with the same "should we be worried" question coming from it. OSU has now lost 8 in a row and 13 of 14. Particularly if they lose out or only win 1 or 2 down the stretch...You really have to wonder if Holtmann is in jeopardy. The steep decline is startling as they were a solid team at the beginning of the year, being inches away from beating #1 Purdue to go to 3-0 in the Big Ten. Now they are consistently losing in blowout fashion.

So if it happens...should we be worried? I would agree that right now, Boals and his resume would be too much of a stretch hire for the OSU job. But if we win the MAC tourney and show well in the NCAA tourney? I could definitely see it. While the overall record won't blow anyone away, the story would be he came in and turned the program around, made it to the NCAA (and beat Virginia), then lost a player to the NBA and 2 others to high major programs and still got back to the dance.
Coming from an O$U crazy family, the fanbase is pretty much about to assemble a pitchforks and torches gang to chase Holtmann out of town even after the athletic director gave him a vote of confidence. He's gotten them to the dance every year up to this point, but they have not reached the Sweet 16 since 2013. I can see it going either way, but losing is a bad word up there.
To be fair, O$U fans have the pitchforks ready to go for pretty much any loss.
BWHAHAA yep. It’s an experience to walk around Columbus after Mich beat them at the Shoe this year.
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OhioCatFan
2/28/2023 9:19 PM
Cellis033 wrote:expand_more
BWHAHAA yep. It’s an experience to walk around Columbus after Mich beat them at the Shoe this year.
Spoken like a true Bobcat!
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OU_Country
2/28/2023 9:23 PM
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:expand_more
I would have to assume that Boals would be a top 3 candidate right now, without question.

I'd even go on to put Boals on the long list for Louisville.
Has Boals done enough as a head coach to would warrant being considered for a potential opening at Ohio State? No.

Boals chance to get a big job has, at the current time, passed. The opportunity was right after that win over UVA.
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OhioCatFan
2/28/2023 9:31 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
I would have to assume that Boals would be a top 3 candidate right now, without question.

I'd even go on to put Boals on the long list for Louisville.
Has Boals done enough as a head coach to would warrant being considered for a potential opening at Ohio State? No.

Boals chance to get a big job has, at the current time, passed. The opportunity was right after that win over UVA.
I think there's some undetected sarcasm going on here
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OU_Country
2/28/2023 9:44 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
I would have to assume that Boals would be a top 3 candidate right now, without question.

I'd even go on to put Boals on the long list for Louisville.
Has Boals done enough as a head coach to would warrant being considered for a potential opening at Ohio State? No.

Boals chance to get a big job has, at the current time, passed. The opportunity was right after that win over UVA.
I think there's some undetected sarcasm going on here
Not really. I just think that his stock was at its highest, so far, after that season. Since that time, they've not done nearly enough to be considered for that level of job.
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