Compared to football there isn't any money in non-football sports.

I agree, money is what is going to drive things...

Here is the thing I do not feel is being properly valued: EXPOSURE. We have all talked about the exposure provided by athletics when the anti-athletics bashers come in. Basketball is not a revenue sport to the extent of football, but I believe the exposure of a Final Four run could push basketball past football in terms of value. When I look at the investment we could make in hoops, I see much more value in our return than investing in football.. 

I do not see a ceiling for Ohio Basketball. The ceiling just seems lower for Ohio Football. That said, Frank Solich has pushed my optimism about Ohio football wayyyyyy up. We are doing things I did not think possible. I always viewed our recent basketball success as possible.

I disagree strongly. I think your bias towards football is showing, and I believe what you are talking about is where the thinking goes astray on here. 

When I walk into the Convocation Center, I get a big-time feel. Its really that simple. I've talked about this with many Ohio fans. Fans who post here, fans who do not. We have something very special in the Convocation Center. That is an elite college basketball atmosphere. The size, the fans, the number of fans, the setup, everything... We have it really good. We are lucky. We should be thankful.. Other MAC schools would kill for what we've got going for us. 

We are not UCLA, one of the winningest programs of all-time. No one is saying we are.  You say we are not a Top 80 program? We SHOULD be. We should not have losing seasons as long as we are competing in the MAC. If we have a losing season, someone (coach or AD) did not do there job or we got really unlucky with players (transfers, injuries, suspensions). We have an arena 3x or 4x the size of other arenas in our league. We have an established fanbase that has shown up in bad years more than other teams in our conference draw in good years. There is ZERO reason a coach should not win here in basketball. I am sure this post comes across as cocky or arrogant. We are in a good run right now.. Would I still be saying these things when we are down? Any team can be beat. Kentucky didn't even make the Big Dance this year. Things happen. I don't expect us to have great seasons every year. However, I think that should be the expectation.

If Kent freaking State can have 20-win seasons for a decade, we can too. We SHOULD. Ohio is a superior program to Kent State in every way, except for what has happened on the court the last two decades.

VCU is not a peer comparison. We had 7 NCAA Tournament appearances before VCU ever made the Big Dance. We have 3x as many Sweet Sixteen appearances as VCU. Our arena seats almost 2x as many people as VCU does. VCU caught lightning in a bottle with their current coach, similar to what Ohio football did with Frank Solich. Plain and simple, I do not believe John Groce was lightning in a bottle. He was/is a good coach. There is a reason he turned down other jobs before coming to Ohio. He knew he could win here. Anyone who is good can win here in basketball.

When O'Shea left, I remember Dambrot making a comment along the lines of "there is no reason they shouldn't be winning big." That isn't exactly what he said, but it along those lines.. Dambrot could win here. Dambrot knows it.. He basically said anyone good could win here.

Gonzaga was a Cinderella 20 years ago. They may not have made a Final Four, but they are a Number 1 seed. I can only dream that we could do that. We are not in a major market like Temple... I get frustrated when people talk about the "little Athens media market." We are not Athens U. We are not Southeast Ohio U. We are Ohio. We can get this program to Top 40, and frankly, I think we should be distributing our spending to achieve that. Honestly, the way we are spending now, we can get there. I think we are on our way.

I do agree that the new playoff changes the ceiling argument for the better for football. However, its still not basketball where winning the conference tournament gets you in... Basketball is just a better deal for teams not "there" yet looking to rise up.

I don't like these arguments, because I am a big Ohio football fan. I love Ohio football. However, since day one, its always been basketball that feels like a true major program. We are a basketball school.

That's because Athens is all local. WHICH IS A DRAW. Ohio is also having the largest amount of applications EVER. Sports bring exposure to a school. Not to mention OHIO is breaking into the Columbus scene, believe it or not. Last time I went to Easton I kid you not I saw two or three women wearing Ohio University shirts. Even when I went to the Spring football game last year (OSU) I wore my OU hoodie and got some HEY I WENT THEIR GO BOBCATS!. It was I think President Alden's plan to bring OHIO into national competition with our basketball program. I hate to say this, but I think a major draw would be an indoor practice arena. Their already conflict with having to compete against women's volleyball and basketball, with the occasional wrestling match. I've heard rumors and people say a great spot would be to build just south of the Convo. Let's make s*(& happen. I hate the fact conferences wouldn't want to bring Ohio into their conference, because of small T.V. market, because look at WVU. They are in a city of 30,000 people that are in Big 12. 

If we want to improve conferences all of you need to start putting your money where your mouth is and donate the millions it takes to upgrade things and travel properly. We need to be able to fill our football stadium on a Tuesday and our basketball arena all the time if we think we are better than the MAC.

Looking at the bigger picture for Athens County and tourism dollars flowing into the region 6 Bobcat football home dates and 18 Bobcat home basketball dates are big a shot in the arm for the local economy but having 30 premium outlet stores would bring dollars 365 days a year. There are plenty of cultural attractions in SE Ohio in Chillicothe, Hocking Hills, Marietta for example that students either don't have a car or don't know about it. The tourism marketing needs to be more integrated across county lines. All those class trips you've listed from that website cost a lot of additional money to participate in and are not mandatory for all students. At Dartmouth College it is mandatory. Having good FB and BB programs is great but if you want to attract the top students you've got work on more services and innovative academic programming.

Computer rankings that include all 250 D1 football schools have been used to determine the BCS Standings for 15 years now. I think its more that posters on Bobcatattack are very passionate about basketball than the average gate goer to Ohio athletics weighing off RPI. Every huge win by OU football is viewed as a threat to basketball's omnipotence among a select group on here. The basic fact is OU can't get the players no matter how much money is thrown at it or conference we play in. The school would be average at best in anything bigger than the MAC. That is what you guys fail to realize is its not a money or conference thing. Its because we aren't a first tier historic name school like Notre Dame or Alabama. OU will never be considered among the elite in athletics not with Ohio State an elite program 75 miles up the road. That said OU can dominate the MAC with some Top 10 seasons and have a high quality D1 home game experience. The school is 90% of the way there already.

This thread appears to have a little bit of everything, including outlet malls. But let's take a look at Bobcat FB and MBB over the past few years:

-FB game vs. Big Ten on ABC Saturday afternoon? Check.
-Several ESPN FB games -- including those from Peden? Check.
-Opportunity for a MAC team to play in a BCS bowl game on primetime national TV? Check.
-Chance to play in a bowl game on national TV? Check.
-BB games on ESPN? Check.
-NCAA tournament upsets? Check, check and check.

Despite being in the MAC, we've enjoyed a heckuva last 5 years or so. And we've had the national stage several times. Sometimes we looked great (vs. Penn St., Michigan, Georgetown, etc.) and sometimes we looked awful (Akron, Belmont, etc.).

The point is, the MAC is not perfect. But we've had our chances to be up there with the big boys. 

If I could make improvements, I would make Peden 35,000 seats and Convo 12,000. We get low teen's, but not high enough. Anything lower than 11,000 wouldn't be acceptable. 

What you fail to realize is being 'average' in big 6 in both football and basketball gets you better ball games then being the 'best' in the MAC.

We could compete in the MVC almost right away in basketball...and being just above agerage gets you into the tournament.

Being great in the MAC means nothing unless you win in Cleveland, or at best, the Motor City bowl.

I was going to do the whole quote/response thing, but dont' feel like messing with /quotes, so I'll number them:

1)  Both.  Which do you think ESPN rather pick up; Ohio v Directional Mich or Big 6 vs Big 6.  Our fan base has shown time and time again that it will pack any venue when you give us an oppnent that the most casual fan can recognize as 'big name.'

2a)  Being competitive =/= winning it every year.  At least in the MVC we would have a legit reason to be on the bubble most years, and not watching our RPI go down because we beat EMU.  Do I think we go in and dominate?  No....Do I think we'd be in the top 4?  Yes.

2b)  Maybe the new Big East, or whatever it will be called allows football only.  Maybe the MAC would allow us football only. Maybe CUSA.  It not like what I'm proposing is unheard of.

3)  In psy 221 we call what NIU did an 'outlier.'  A LOT had to go right last season for NIU to get where it got, and after the way they got pasted, a lot MORE will have to go right for a MAC school to do it again.

Under the BCS bowl format that is going along with the 4-team playoff model starting in 2014-15, the top ranked "other" conference champion (that is the champions of the leagues not named SEC, Pac12, Big12, Big10) WILL go to one of the big name access bowls. IIRC it will be the Orange Bowl. In other words, under the future system, rather than this year's BCS system, NIU would have played in the Orange Bowl. In years going forward, the top ranked non-BCS conference champion will go big-time bowling (though likely not in the 4-team playoff). All that need happen for a MAC school to "do it again" in the future is being ranked higher than the winners of the CUSA, the MWC, and the SunBelt (the WAC being defunct)