Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Fair or Foul?
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Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 1/18/2014 1:44 PM
100%Cat wrote:expand_more
I think what bothers me is that I interpret that bold section as saying "If you have no 'connection' to the school, you have no business rooting for their sports teams." I know people who have no connection to Ohio but root for Ohio University.  Should we tell these people we don't want their support?

I very very rarely have run into these people, and it is probably the #1 reason why I love being a Bobcat fan.  Nearly every Bobcat fan is a student/alumni/employee, or a very close family member of one.  When I meet a Bobcat fan, I share an immediate bond with them thru our beloved university.  I love that.  And of the very few fans we have with no ties to the university, they usually are not students/alumni of another D1 school.  If I met a BG or Kent graduate who has absolutely no ties to Ohio University and said they were rooting for Ohio over their own school, it would annoy me.
Ozcat
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Posted: 1/18/2014 3:56 PM
Ah yes, the semi-regular return of the dumbest argument on this forum.

100%Cat nailed it - Who cares?!

Everyone has those own reasons and stories as to why they root for whoever. It's nobody else's concern. Who cares?!

Ohio is my 1a, tOSU is my 1b. I haven't missed a single game by either school in 3 years. The only other team I follow is the Tribe.

One of my friends from OU married an OSU grad, and they now have season tickets to OSU football. He makes it back to Athens for Homecoming and usually a basketball game each year. Another OU friend doesn't follow the Cats at all. Another is a huge Browns fan and could care less about OU anything. Not a single one of them has joined the Bobcat Club, despite my peer pressure.

Would you rather have 1,000 more fans like them or me?

Pretty easy answer.
Last Edited: 1/18/2014 3:57:38 PM by Ozcat
MariettaCatFanatic
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Posted: 1/18/2014 4:05 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
For me, it's meaningless.  It's like letting it bother you that there are NFL fans in Ohio who have the audacity to root for a team not named the Bengals or Browns.  What "attachment" are you supposed to have to a professional team?  Are you limited geographically?  No.  Then why do you have to have been a student at a college to root for their sports teams?


I don't think professional sports and college sports are one in the same in this aspect. Now, I will contend the line between the two has become more and more grey over time with the commecialization of the college athletic landscape, but that's an entirely different can of worms to open. Being connected and having pride in a school which gave you something (experiences, educations, relationships) is different from a professional team which doesn't really provide anything but enjoyment.


I think what bothers me is that I interpret that bold section as saying "If you have no 'connection' to the school, you have no business rooting for their sports teams." I know people who have no connection to Ohio but root for Ohio University.  Should we tell these people we don't want their support?


That's a fair argument. One that I don't particularly have an answer for. My question would be, "how many of these are there?" out there for smaller schools like Ohio? Not like we can just deny anyone's support by any means. We need all the help we can get. But my initial guess is that these are few and far between.

I'll offer myself up as Exhibit A.

 
catfan28
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Posted: 1/18/2014 5:05 PM
Ozcat wrote:expand_more
One of my friends from OU married an OSU grad, and they now have season tickets to OSU football. He makes it back to Athens for Homecoming and usually a basketball game each year. Another OU friend doesn't follow the Cats at all. Another is a huge Browns fan and could care less about OU anything. Not a single one of them has joined the Bobcat Club, despite my peer pressure.

Pretty easy answer.


I'm curious...for the 2 that don't care at all, do they show any rooting interest even when we get to the "big" game? Such as the Sweet 16 or bowl games (or just being on ESPN in general)...or could they still care less?

Just curious...
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 1/18/2014 5:07 PM
Ozcat wrote:expand_more
Ah yes, the semi-regular return of the dumbest argument on this forum.

100%Cat nailed it - Who cares?!

Everyone has those own reasons and stories as to why they root for whoever. It's nobody else's concern. Who cares?!

Ohio is my 1a, tOSU is my 1b. I haven't missed a single game by either school in 3 years. The only other team I follow is the Tribe.

One of my friends from OU married an OSU grad, and they now have season tickets to OSU football. He makes it back to Athens for Homecoming and usually a basketball game each year. Another OU friend doesn't follow the Cats at all. Another is a huge Browns fan and could care less about OU anything. Not a single one of them has joined the Bobcat Club, despite my peer pressure.

Would you rather have 1,000 more fans like them or me?

Pretty easy answer.

We'd rather that football didn't tank and that hoops (both) and volleyball continue on the upswing and that your Ohio alum put their attention where it belongs in light of OUr great play..

Tribe attendance and fervor during the season vs. at the playoff game after the great run (thanks for the bomb, Giambi) at the end.

 
Ozcat
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Posted: 1/19/2014 6:03 PM
catfan28 wrote:expand_more
I'm curious...for the 2 that don't care at all, do they show any rooting interest even when we get to the "big" game? Such as the Sweet 16 or bowl games (or just being on ESPN in general)...or could they still care less?

Just curious...

Generally apathetic, although the Sweet Sixteen excited pretty much EVERY person I know.   Does anyone get excited over the bowl games we typically play in?  This years was at 2PM on a work day...

MAC championship games have garnered a little interest.

Though as Monroe is suggesting, maybe our continued success in volleyball pulls them aboard the ship...
Last Edited: 1/20/2014 6:02:50 PM by Ozcat
giacomo
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Posted: 1/20/2014 3:50 PM
If you graduated from X and wear gear from Y, I'm not sure what that says about you. If you grew up in Cleveland, as I did, and went to your first Indians and Browns game with your Dad at Municipal Stadium, how could you wear gear and root for another team? That is a tie that binds. I actually find it silly to see grown men wearing gear, other than a cap on game day, but that's me. I realize I'm in the minority. I have a good friend who grew up in Cleveland and pretty much had the same experiences as I did. He loves the Redskins and wears all their stuff. He loved John Riggins. But Riggins is gone and what do the Redskins represent? Truth, justice and the American way? No. You are merely rooting for laundry. Fan is an abbreviation for fanatical. I guess that best explains it.
Ozcat
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Posted: 1/20/2014 6:01 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
If you grew up in Cleveland, as I did, and went to your first Indians and Browns game with your Dad at Municipal Stadium, how could you wear gear and root for another team?

This is why I'm a Tribe fan.

It's also the same exact reason why I'm a Buckeye fan.

I didn't choose to attend Ohio because they had sports.  I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that applies to most every non-athlete.
Ozcat
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Posted: 1/20/2014 6:01 PM
To summarize: Who cares?
Last Edited: 1/20/2014 6:03:31 PM by Ozcat
RSBobcat
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Posted: 1/20/2014 9:43 PM
Ozcat wrote:expand_more
To summarize: Who cares?


Me, for one.

In my opinion "split" loyalty "splits" the effect of your support - and tO$U comes out the winner all day long there. You are feeding the Goliath - he's got plenty to eat. He also often snatches bits from OUr plate. You remind me of the dinner guest who always reaches across the table and takes bites of the food I ordered just to see what it tastes like. If I want to share I will offer you some. Eat what you ordered............order what you want to eat..  

In my opinion, the behemoth that is tO$U is the single biggest obstacle to OHIO effectively growing OUr name, brand, awareness, and support, in and out of state. You can also throw in The Columbus Dispatch and Walmart shoppers (and just about every other retail store) all across the state. tO$U is not only a Competitve institution, it is also a Very Significant force of Impediment to OHIO.  

Per college/university sports - I think there is a lot of merit to JSF's profile tag line ""Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

I do understand your struggle. I was born at tO$U hospital in 1959 when my parents were students there. I was raised in a fanatical tO$U environment - listening to the games on the radio every Saturday as early as I can remember anything. 45 records played in the house - constantly - "Chimes", "Carmen Ohio", "Don't give a damn 'bout the whole state of Michigan", "Across the Field", "Buckeye Battle Cry", etc., etc.

My original intent was to attend tO$U. I auditioned for and was accepted by tO$U School of Music (one of 6 accepted out of 37 trumpet/cornet auditioning players). Soon after that I visited the OHIO campus for a weekend - visiting a few hometown friends a year older than I who were Freshmen at OHIO. I had never been to Athens before. And then, like Tommy's 3 to win the game vs Fiami couple years ago, "Bang", Game Over, any interest I had in attending tO$U vanished.

For quite a few years I also experienced the schizophrenia of "dual loyalties". But I have seen the light. I have made my commitment clear, total, and solid, even to the displeasure of my parents (who actually paid about 25% of my OHIO tuition/room and board expenses - but can't understand why I seem to have some disdain for tO$U these days).  

So make up your mind. There's really no "Sophie's Choice" dilemma to it. Just Do It............ 

 
Last Edited: 1/20/2014 9:46:25 PM by RSBobcat
bornacatfan
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Posted: 1/20/2014 10:14 PM
RSBobcat wrote:expand_more
To summarize: Who cares?


Me, for one.

In my opinion "split" loyalty "splits" the effect of your support - and tO$U comes out the winner all day long there. You are feeding the Goliath - he's got plenty to eat. He also often snatches bits from OUr plate. You remind me of the dinner guest who always reaches across the table and takes bites of the food I ordered just to see what it tastes like. If I want to share I will offer you some. Eat what you ordered............order what you want to eat..  

In my opinion, the behemoth that is tO$U is the single biggest obstacle to OHIO effectively growing OUr name, brand, awareness, and support, in and out of state. You can also throw in The Columbus Dispatch and Walmart shoppers (and just about every other retail store) all across the state. tO$U is not only a Competitve institution, it is also a Very Significant force of Impediment to OHIO.  

Per college/university sports - I think there is a lot of merit to JSF's profile tag line ""Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

I do understand your struggle. I was born at tO$U hospital in 1959 when my parents were students there. I was raised in a fanatical tO$U environment - listening to the games on the radio every Saturday as early as I can remember anything. 45 records played in the house - constantly - "Chimes", "Carmen Ohio", "Don't give a damn 'bout the whole state of Michigan", "Across the Field", "Buckeye Battle Cry", etc., etc.

My original intent was to attend tO$U. I auditioned for and was accepted by tO$U School of Music (one of 6 accepted out of 37 trumpet/cornet auditioning players). Soon after that I visited the OHIO campus for a weekend - visiting a few hometown friends a year older than I who were Freshmen at OHIO. I had never been to Athens before. And then, like Tommy's 3 to win the game vs Fiami couple years ago, "Bang", Game Over, any interest I had in attending tO$U vanished.

For quite a few years I also experienced the schizophrenia of "dual loyalties". But I have seen the light. I have made my commitment clear, total, and solid, even to the displeasure of my parents (who actually paid about 25% of my OHIO tuition/room and board expenses - but can't understand why I seem to have some disdain for tO$U these days).  

So make up your mind. There's really no "Sophie's Choice" dilemma to it. Just Do It............ 

 


eloquent, poignant, well stated.

I find it funny and maybe a bit ironic that the man with split loyalties is the one bemoaning the resurrection of the thread and asking who cares....
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 1/21/2014 2:54 AM
How about people who choose a reference to the jr institution in columbus as part of their handle on this board.
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 1/21/2014 7:54 AM
RSBobcat wrote:expand_more
In my opinion "split" loyalty "splits" the effect of your support - and tO$U comes out the winner all day long there. 

This sums it up nicely.  I'd say 95% of the "split" fans I meet are very light on Bobcats and heavy on Buckeyes.  But even the die hards like Oz who truly do put Ohio first are still forced to prioritize.   We all have limitations, and those limitations become greater and greater the older you get.  Imagine if Oz took all his time and attention he spent on OSU and applied it to additional Ohio support...He could turn into a super fan like McBin or McKinney.  And those types of fans are what builds the program up.
 
Ozcat
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Posted: 1/21/2014 7:45 PM
I can assure you I don't "struggle" with anything.  My OSU fandom doesn't get in the way of my OU fandom in the slightest.  I don't know how I could devote any more time to being an OU fan, short of watching each game twice.  When you get down to it, you all don't have a problem with my support of another team - you have a problem with the team I support. If Notre Dame or Baylor was my 'other' team, nobody would think a thing of it.
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Posted: 1/21/2014 8:27 PM
Ozcat wrote:expand_more
Ah yes, the semi-regular return of the dumbest argument on this forum. 

I would respectfully argue that telling grown men they look stupid wearing jerseys at games is the dumbest semi-regular argument on the forum, but that's just me. 

 
bornacatfan
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Posted: 1/21/2014 8:52 PM
Ozcat wrote:expand_more
 If Notre Dame.......was my 'other' team, nobody would think a thing of it.

Ohhhh Yeahhh.... DO not get me started on the other team that has more sheep than the juggernaut in Columbus. I got so sick of folks in Chicago referring to the Irish as "we" .....when they would explain to me that the ONLY connection they had was a common religion but without being Catholic I could never understand.... . 

At least the folk growing up in OHio have an excuse with all the marketing, media and inundation in print, visual and radio passing by their eyeballs and ears fairly constantly, parents that may have been in the flock and schools that have educators and role models preaching the word as well as workplaces that have everything from cashiers and waitresses to employers pushing allegiences with clothes, menu items and such in their face.....

And of course by saying this.....all the Notre Dame fans will come at me as holding a grudge against their religion and ignore the fact that unless they have ties to the U they are simply sheep in the flock holding tight by the thread of association. 

 
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Posted: 1/21/2014 9:42 PM
Ozcat wrote:expand_more
If Notre Dame or Baylor was my 'other' team, nobody would think a thing of it.

But see Notre Dame and Baylor don't chant our name, wear our letters on their jerseys, and play in stadiums named for our university. Ohio State does all of these things and because of this they have to be seen as the enemy. Their gain is our loss. You wouldn't root for Miami or Kent State even if you grew up a fan of theirs would you? No, because their success comes at the expense of Ohio. That makes them our rival. 

 
Ozcat
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Posted: 1/21/2014 10:00 PM
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:expand_more
But see Notre Dame and Baylor don't chant our name, wear our letters on their jerseys, and play in stadiums named for our university. Ohio State does all of these things and because of this they have to be seen as the enemy. Their gain is our loss. You wouldn't root for Miami or Kent State even if you grew up a fan of theirs would you? No, because their success comes at the expense of Ohio. That makes them our rival.

I didn't know they played in Ohio University Stadium...  Perhaps it is just named after the state we reside in?  And I actually root for Miami anytime they're not playing OU.

And OSU is not our rival, at all.  Quit kidding yourself.
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Posted: 1/22/2014 8:46 AM
Ozcat wrote:expand_more
But see Notre Dame and Baylor don't chant our name, wear our letters on their jerseys, and play in stadiums named for our university. Ohio State does all of these things and because of this they have to be seen as the enemy. Their gain is our loss. You wouldn't root for Miami or Kent State even if you grew up a fan of theirs would you? No, because their success comes at the expense of Ohio. That makes them our rival.

I didn't know they played in Ohio University Stadium...  Perhaps it is just named after the state we reside in?  And I actually root for Miami anytime they're not playing OU.

And OSU is not our rival, at all.  Quit kidding yourself.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rival

Actually, based on Big Tilly's quote, Merriam Webster precisely define's tOSU as our rival:

 Full Definition of RIVAL

1
a :  one of two or more striving to reach or obtain something that only one can possess
 
b :  one striving for competitive advantage

 

Last Edited: 1/22/2014 8:49:36 AM by D.A.
Recovering Journalist
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Posted: 1/22/2014 11:46 AM
Ozcat wrote:expand_more
Ah yes, the semi-regular return of the dumbest argument on this forum.

100%Cat nailed it - Who cares?!

It is a sad and tiresome argument on some level, as each side seems to talk past the other and both sides seem intransigent. But there’s a reason it keeps coming up.

I don’t think anyone here, save for the deluded or irrationally optimistic, would argue that O$U is a traditional athletic rival in revenue sports. We get that they’re Goliath and we’re David. I also accept that Ozcat is much more of a Bobcat fan than even most on this board. I don’t think dual loyalty fans are evil for loving O$U but I do think they’re deeply misguided.

Much of this has been discussed on here before, but a reminder seems to be in order. 

Things big and small that O$U does with the name Ohio continue to cause material harm to our brand and institution. No other university in the country named after a state has to add a “U” before or after its name, but we still do after more than 200 years, lest we be confused with O$U. No other university with “state” in its name tries to shake the “state” moniker – most embrace it as a differentiator. Our unique situation sucks for branding and differentiation. From the time Ohio State was founded as Ohio A&M all the way up until the present, the school and its supporters have robbed us of our identity.

Every Ohio graduate has had to clarify where they went to school at some point, and that’s only partly due to athletic prominence. Anyone who cares about Ohio University should loathe Ohio State.

Ohio State was founded as Ohio A&M in 1870, 66 years after Ohio. Since Ohio State’s birth, it’s been ashamed of its name. Ohio A&M faced competition for resources from the other two state universities (Miami and Ohio), but the 1906 Eagleson Bill (a treat from the Columbus-based legislature) named Ohio State the state’s flagship campus and explicitly stated that only Ohio State could offer doctoral degrees and conduct research. This paved the way for Ohio State’s rapid growth and dominance, and it hamstrung all other state schools for decades both academically and athletically. Their gains have often come at our expense.

So Miami has a case against O$U as well, but ours is even stronger. That’s because Ohio State has long coveted Ohio University’s name. Before 1920, it tried to get the legislature to change its name to the University of Ohio while forcing Ohio University to change its name (an effort that was successfully thwarted). Their coveting, thievery and abuse of “Ohio” as it relates to athletics is ongoing. Ohio State even challenged Ohio University’s athletic trademark on “Ohio” in the 1990s and lost again. 

I’m a Clevelander so I love an underdog and loyalty means more to me than a hollow ride on a bandwagon. I understand that we need all the fans we can get, including those who wear Buckeye gear to the Convo. I understand the history and motivations of those fans. I've heard all their justifications. I don't hate them, but I’m glad I’ll never be one of them.

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Posted: 1/22/2014 12:35 PM
I was coming to games in the Convo and being a fan since I was 10-11 years old.  My father and I had no connection to OU whatsoever, none.  I did later come to OU for multiple degrees.  Maybe 20ish years ago, one of you superfans should have told my dad and I to get lost since we apparently weren't welcome in the Convo. 

Alienating people whose butts tend to be in the seats for your games regardless of affiliation to the institution, never a good idea.
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Posted: 1/22/2014 12:52 PM
I bet Eastern Michigan checks fans for institutional connections at the ticket gate.  That would explain a lot.



What player wouldn't want to play in front of a solid group of hard core fans like that?  What true fan would want support from anyone else? (sarcasm alert)
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Posted: 1/22/2014 1:07 PM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
Ah yes, the semi-regular return of the dumbest argument on this forum.

100%Cat nailed it - Who cares?!

It is a sad and tiresome argument on some level, as each side seems to talk past the other and both sides seem intransigent. But there’s a reason it keeps coming up.

I don’t think anyone here, save for the deluded or irrationally optimistic, would argue that O$U is a traditional athletic rival in revenue sports. We get that they’re Goliath and we’re David. I also accept that Ozcat is much more of a Bobcat fan than even most on this board. I don’t think dual loyalty fans are evil for loving O$U but I do think they’re deeply misguided.

Much of this has been discussed on here before, but a reminder seems to be in order. 

Things big and small that O$U does with the name Ohio continue to cause material harm to our brand and institution. No other university in the country named after a state has to add a “U” before or after its name, but we still do after more than 200 years, lest we be confused with O$U. No other university with “state” in its name tries to shake the “state” moniker – most embrace it as a differentiator. Our unique situation sucks for branding and differentiation. From the time Ohio State was founded as Ohio A&M all the way up until the present, the school and its supporters have robbed us of our identity.

Every Ohio graduate has had to clarify where they went to school at some point, and that’s only partly due to athletic prominence. Anyone who cares about Ohio University should loathe Ohio State.

Ohio State was founded as Ohio A&M in 1870, 66 years after Ohio. Since Ohio State’s birth, it’s been ashamed of its name. Ohio A&M faced competition for resources from the other two state universities (Miami and Ohio), but the 1906 Eagleson Bill (a treat from the Columbus-based legislature) named Ohio State the state’s flagship campus and explicitly stated that only Ohio State could offer doctoral degrees and conduct research. This paved the way for Ohio State’s rapid growth and dominance, and it hamstrung all other state schools for decades both academically and athletically. Their gains have often come at our expense.

So Miami has a case against O$U as well, but ours is even stronger. That’s because Ohio State has long coveted Ohio University’s name. Before 1920, it tried to get the legislature to change its name to the University of Ohio while forcing Ohio University to change its name (an effort that was successfully thwarted). Their coveting, thievery and abuse of “Ohio” as it relates to athletics is ongoing. Ohio State even challenged Ohio University’s athletic trademark on “Ohio” in the 1990s and lost again. 

I’m a Clevelander so I love an underdog and loyalty means more to me than a hollow ride on a bandwagon. I understand that we need all the fans we can get, including those who wear Buckeye gear to the Convo. I understand the history and motivations of those fans. I've heard all their justifications. I don't hate them, but I’m glad I’ll never be one of them.



I've had a theory about this whole situation. If Ohio State were to lose to a MAC school or some other non-BCS school in football/basketball it wouldn't essentially mean all that much, which is why it hasn't happened. Sure those schools would have lots to gain from beating OSU, but no where near what it would mean if Ohio beat them.

Ohio has to be the school to beat Ohio State in a major athletic event. Not only would it mean more to Ohio fans than anybody else, but it would matter nationally.
Last Edited: 1/22/2014 1:08:07 PM by GoCats105
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Posted: 1/22/2014 3:34 PM
100%Cat wrote:expand_more
I was coming to games in the Convo and being a fan since I was 10-11 years old. My father and I had no connection to OU whatsoever, none. I did later come to OU for multiple degrees. Maybe 20ish years ago, one of you superfans should have told my dad and I to get lost since we apparently weren't welcome in the Convo.

Alienating people whose butts tend to be in the seats for your games regardless of affiliation to the institution, never a good idea.

I have no problem with OU fans that have no affiliation with the program as long as they're loyal to the program. If your family had no ties to OU but came to the games then that's great. I'm guessing you grew up in the area? I would consider local residents to be just as affiliated with OU as its students and alumni.

But I want to address another part of your comment- after growing up rooting for a college team that you and your family had no direct affiliation with you decided to attend that college to earn multiple degrees, and likely spend untold tens of thousands of dollars in the process. I would guess that your connection to OU as a child played at least a small role in your decision to attend.

That's the point! that's why some of us think alums who root for OSU should bugger off. how many kids end up going to OSU because they grew up in a house where their family all defaulted as OSU fans? Students who graduate and root for Ohio and not some other school have a better chance of raising lifelong Bobcat fans, some of whom will grow up and attend Ohio themselves and spend tens of thousands of dollars too. Its the circle of life.
Last Edited: 1/22/2014 3:35:05 PM by perimeterpost
Ozcat
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Posted: 1/22/2014 3:37 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
Ohio has to be the school to beat Ohio State in a major athletic event. Not only would it mean more to Ohio fans than anybody else, but it would matter nationally.

UC fans would disagree.

RJ - Great post.  Well stated.
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