Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Boldon signs extension
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ts1227
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:37 AM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Do you think it'll require a FOIA request to find out the terms of this extension?
I would certainly hope that a simple question from one of our three local sports writers would reveal that information with the formal request.
Arkley tweeted that Ohio did require him to file a FOIA request to get the terms, and said request has been filed.
Ohio69
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:39 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/sports/ncaabasketball/p...

Great read if you are interested in differences in salaries.
Recovering Journalist
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Posted: 3/12/2015 11:40 AM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
I believe in fairness and equality - equal pay for equal work.
Does that mean the soccer coach or the swimming coach should get the same pay? They have similarly sized rosters and produce a similar amount of revenue.

Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
At the end of the day, what we're paying the "best" is way out of line with the value they bring to society as a whole. After all it's only a game. (Time to duck, I guess).
Would it make you happy if Ohio paid the D1 football coach and the men's basketball coach $100,000 or less? Is that what you mean by equal pay for equal work? Maybe then those onerous ticket prices of about $5 a game could finally come down to reasonable levels. Two bits for all seats when Alan's regime comes to power!
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Posted: 3/12/2015 1:19 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Which is less than 1/3 of what our men's coach is getting.
But Maryland is paying Brenda Frese $383k.

Well

Go yell at maryland. Brenda started at Ball State.left for Minny and ended up at Maryland, won a national champioship and yet only makes a fraction of what the men's coach makes.

Jees Alan ....what is your point? if the best of the best makes a fraction of what the men's coach makes at the highest levels should OHIO be the first to make pay levels the same? GO yell on their boards for pay equality and setting the standard. I am sure once we raise prices on seats you will be the first to complain about the new prices. How many ways do you want this cake? You want to look at it and eat it too? I don't get why you always find a way to be oppositional and cantakerous.
Two things - 1) why do you always have to attack the messenger rather than the message? And 2)my reasoning while perhaps idealistic is simple Tom - it's because I believe in fairness and equality - equal pay for equal work. And yes, someone, whether it is OU or some other school will have to be the first. At the end of the day, what we're paying the "best" is way out of line with the value they bring to society as a whole. After all it's only a game. (Time to duck, I guess).
When the women games start attracting as many fans and has as much overall revenue, then I'm all for equality. I believe in letting the market decide what the coaches salary should be. There are multiple women's coaches that make over $1,000,000. The Big 12 has 7 coaches making over $500,000. The money is there if the product is there. Also consider that much of any coaches pay package includes outside sources, in addition to base salary. If no sponsor sees fit to pay a women's coach what a men's coach is paid for their appearance on a show, that is the market deciding what they should be paid, not some arbitrary equality.
All within the limits of Title IX of course.

FWIW, Pat Summitt made more than the men's coach at Tennessee for good reason.

I'd be the first to say that college athletic salaries are out of control, and I'm not sure how to stop the apparent madness. It is certainly not just a game anymore.
Last Edited: 3/12/2015 2:19:12 PM by colobobcat66
Alan Swank
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Posted: 3/12/2015 3:24 PM
ts1227 wrote:expand_more
Do you think it'll require a FOIA request to find out the terms of this extension?
I would certainly hope that a simple question from one of our three local sports writers would reveal that information with the formal request.
Arkley tweeted that Ohio did require him to file a FOIA request to get the terms, and said request has been filed.
Really - required him to file? My guess is he'll be watching the games from the family pack sections going forward.
JSF
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Posted: 3/12/2015 4:32 PM
Back on topic: If this extension pushes him over $200k, that's very, very competitive and gives us a great chance to hold onto him over a middling or lower power conference team.
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Posted: 3/12/2015 5:04 PM
re: attendance

Toledo's WBB team is the gold standard for the MAC and was #25 in the nation last year with an average attendance of 3,932. Obviously they have a strong tradition etc, etc.

So, if I'm being wildly optimistic and making grand assumptions here- isn't it possible, given the passion for basketball that we see reflected in the superior attendance for MBB, that if we built a strong program from WBB then we could see attendance numbers that match or possibly beat Toledo's as well?

So for the people concerned about the spend vs the take, retaining a coach like Boldon could be a wise investment if the fan base grows to its potential.
JSF
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Posted: 3/12/2015 5:32 PM
I agree. We can have a strong showing for both sports. We have good attendance for volleyball; that can translate over to basketball.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 3/12/2015 5:47 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
I agree. We can have a strong showing for both sports. We have good attendance for volleyball; that can translate over to basketball.
Could not agree more. An exciting/interesting style of play combined with success will put butts in seats. Solid promotion of the product would also help and not just at tournament time.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 3/12/2015 6:39 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Really - required him to file? My guess is he'll be watching the games from the family pack sections going forward.
Alan, I'm confused by what you mean here. Arkley will be in the cheap seats or the clown in the AD's office who required him to file an FOIA request? I know the former won't be true, and very much doubt the latter either. They didn't throw me out of the Bobcat Club and make me sit in the nosebleed section of the Convo because I sent in a FOIA request on the Northwestern football contract after they changed it.
Last Edited: 3/12/2015 6:39:56 PM by OhioCatFan
Alan Swank
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Posted: 3/12/2015 7:10 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Really - required him to file? My guess is he'll be watching the games from the family pack sections going forward.
Alan, I'm confused by what you mean here. Arkley will be in the cheap seats or the clown in the AD's office who required him to file an FOIA request? I know the former won't be true, and very much doubt the latter either. They didn't throw me out of the Bobcat Club and make me sit in the nosebleed section of the Convo because I sent in a FOIA request on the Northwestern football contract after they changed it.
Tell us more. I've never heard this story.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 3/12/2015 7:32 PM
First you answer my question, Alan.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 3/12/2015 7:43 PM
The writer.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 3/12/2015 8:16 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
The writer.
That's absolutely stupid, Alan. They are not going to do anything against Arkley for exercising his FOIA rights. In the Northwestern case, there were a bunch of allegations on BA about what the original contract had said and what were the terms of the new contract with no return game in Athens. I then submitted an FOIA request and got the contracts. At that point, I posted what I found out, which turned out to be nothing of great moment. I don't know if this was before or after the Great BA Data Loss. If after, you could search for my posts at that time.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 3/12/2015 9:43 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
The writer.
That's absolutely stupid, Alan. They are not going to do anything against Arkley for exercising his FOIA rights. In the Northwestern case, there were a bunch of allegations on BA about what the original contract had said and what were the terms of the new contract with no return game in Athens. I then submitted an FOIA request and got the contracts. At that point, I posted what I found out, which turned out to be nothing of great moment. I don't know if this was before or after the Great BA Data Loss. If after, you could search for my posts at that time.
Guess I should have put a smiley face after my original post. :)
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 3/12/2015 10:42 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
The writer.
That's absolutely stupid, Alan. They are not going to do anything against Arkley for exercising his FOIA rights. In the Northwestern case, there were a bunch of allegations on BA about what the original contract had said and what were the terms of the new contract with no return game in Athens. I then submitted an FOIA request and got the contracts. At that point, I posted what I found out, which turned out to be nothing of great moment. I don't know if this was before or after the Great BA Data Loss. If after, you could search for my posts at that time.
Guess I should have put a smiley face after my original post. :)
That would have helped.
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Posted: 3/13/2015 5:05 AM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Hey - At least we are trying to keep him around. I'm sure its not easy for Athletics to come up with some extra money for non-revenue sport coach salaries -- which I assume they just did. I sure hope he sticks for at least one more year. But fully understand if he moves on to a bigger paying gig.
Basketball is a revenue sport.
Men's basketball creates a revenue. Does women's ? I am not familiar with the figures in college. It is not at the HS level. Often costs more to pay the officials and operate the bus than the gate and season tics generate
Depends on where you are. Regardless, WBB is considered and classified as a revenue sport, does not mean that revenue is necessarily positive in flow.
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Posted: 3/13/2015 5:54 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Boldon's base salary was already $170,000:

http://www.vindy.com/news/2013/mar/29/boldon-leaves-ysu-f.../



is the pay gap, relatively speaking, just as large and big of an issue in women's hoops as men's? COULD we, if we wanted to, be like a VCU or Butler on the men's side, and be a mid major that pays a coach high major-ish money to stay? don't know, just asking.
Honestly, if we want to, we can pay him enough to compete with all but the biggest schools. Baylor's giving Mulkey $1 million a year, which is obviously out of our range. But Maryland is paying Brenda Frese $383k. So if we had the ability and desire to give Boldon, say, $100-$150k, that would be pretty competitive.
Which is less than 1/3 of what our men's coach is getting.
Does women's basketball bring in a least 1/3 of the revenue men's basketball brings in? Just curious.
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Posted: 3/13/2015 7:33 PM
hawaiian bobcat wrote:expand_more
Does women's basketball bring in a least 1/3 of the revenue men's basketball brings in? Just curious.
Honestly, I would venture to guess it's more like 1/30th. Season tickets are $20 and single game tickets $5. It's not a fair fight.
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Posted: 3/13/2015 8:37 PM
catfan28 wrote:expand_more
Does women's basketball bring in a least 1/3 of the revenue men's basketball brings in? Just curious.
Honestly, I would venture to guess it's more like 1/30th. Season tickets are $20 and single game tickets $5. It's not a fair fight.
It depends on the argument you're trying to make. If salary is based on revenue percentage, Boldon is being treated very fairly. Not everything in life and society should be just an apples to apples comparison. It's outrageous that the women's coach only makes 1/3 of the men's coach unless you add other variables like revenues each program brings to the table. There are other variables that could be used as well. Philips is grossly over paid if you look at win totals this season. Again it's all based on the argument you want to make. In my opinion it is very elementary to compare college coaching salaries at the same institution solely based on the apples to apples comparison.
catfan28
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Posted: 3/13/2015 11:57 PM
The fairest way to compare any salary is market value. Boldon and Phillips are compensated quite well relative to their Division I and MAC peers. Of course if you look at the Power 5, their salaries pale in comparison. There is almost no school where the women's coach is going to make anywhere near the men's coach. It just doesn't make sense if you look at what the market is telling you.
colobobcat66
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Posted: 3/14/2015 1:04 PM
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-04-01/women-s...

Don't know if this helps, but it's interesting. A little dated, but probably still relevant.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 3/14/2015 3:50 PM
colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-04-01/women-s...

Don't know if this helps, but it's interesting. A little dated, but probably still relevant.
According to the lady most quoted, if you don't carry your own weight, you should be gone. That would eliminate every sport at every school except for football and men's basketball at some schools. Is that really what she meant to say?
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Posted: 3/15/2015 7:32 PM
Seems to me that not disclosing the new salary/terms, at least during the peak of hiring season, would help Ohio retain Boldon more than it would if it were released now. At least for 1 season.
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Posted: 3/16/2015 4:43 AM
How much will the women bring in from the big dance? Women basketball could be profitable with a good run in the tournament. Good luck team and congratulation to the team and coaches. Extension and increase was well deserved.
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