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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: MAC Conference, and other Tournaments discussion?
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Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 3/12/2015 1:26 PM
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Agree with Van and Country on the MAC tournament format. I liked the current format when it was first instituted, but I've now changed my mind.

A tournament isn't legit when two thirds of the league (seeds five through 12) has absolutely no prayer of winning the tournament.

There are several ways to address this. Go back to the previous format where seeds one thru four get a bye to the quarters. Or other plans along the lines suggested by Van and Country.

Was here for the games last night. I expected Eastern to fold as usual down the stretch but they fooled me. I wanted to see BGSU win to set up a match w Toledo tonight. Eastern looked really good. Both teams played hard.

Main reason Western struggled from field was Akron's excellent defense. Akron had more depths and big, athletic bodies to throw at Western than we did Monday night. Last 10 mins at Kzoo we ran out of gas.

Officiating was uneven in Akron game. I could never get a feel on how they were going to deal with contact. Led to some chippy behavior at times.
Last Edited: 3/12/2015 1:27:07 PM by Jeff McKinney
OUVan
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Posted: 3/12/2015 2:09 PM
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Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
Officiating was uneven in Akron game. I could never get a feel on how they were going to deal with contact. Led to some chippy behavior at times.
Agreed. No wonder they had to warn both coaches. There was one call that stood out to me. In the first half David Brown was streaking down the court with the ball and he ran into Antino Jackson, who clearly wasn't in position, and the collision caused Brown to fall down. The refs called it a travel. Shocked Hawkins didn't get a T on that. I could understand a no call if he had maintained his balance but you can't call a travel on that because the contact was significant and he fell as a direct result. Had to rewind to make sure I saw what I thought I saw and I did. And then the damn color guy defended the call by saying that Jackson got in great position. He nearly had his back turned to Brown. They let things get way too physical.
OU_Country
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Posted: 3/12/2015 2:32 PM
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I was hoping for BG vs Toledo as well tonight.

I'm not suggesting my little sketch is the only solution on the format, but the idea that the 5th seed has to win 4 games and the 5th seed just 2, in order to get to the finals doesn't seem right. The last two seasons the difference between the 4th and 5th seeds is negligible.
JSF
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Posted: 3/12/2015 4:28 PM
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I find it interesting it's MAC fans who dislike the tournament format and outsiders who think highly of it.
OUVan
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Posted: 3/12/2015 9:17 PM
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JSF wrote:expand_more
I find it interesting it's MAC fans who dislike the tournament format and outsiders who think highly of it.
I think that makes sense though. In theory it's a great idea that serves its purpose which is to reward the teams that did well in the regular season and give the league the best chance to put its best team in tourney. If you look at it dispassionately it's great. The only problem is it isn't nearly as much fun for those who watch it.
JSF
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Posted: 3/13/2015 12:13 AM
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As always, there just weren't enough people to support a four game Thursday. How many people would be in attendance for all four? 300? How many people watched the early games on TV?
Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 3/13/2015 12:35 AM
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JSF I think you're referring to that experiment that lasted a couple of years where the first round games were played on Wednesday in Cleveland rather than on campus sites. It was one four game session on Wednesday with only a half hour break between games. The attendance was horrible for those games so that was a failure. The games were returned to campus sites.

I think what Van and others are referring to is when the quarter finals were played on Thursday with the top four seeds playing. There were two sessions of two games each with a two hour break between sessions. Attendance varied in these sessions, but certainly there was enough attendance to justify them.
JSF
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Posted: 3/13/2015 1:05 AM
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Nope. There were like 70 people for those Wednesday games.

I'm talking about people who were there for both Thursday sessions. They were few in number. Attendance in the evening session was fine, but the day session was always sparse.
Last Edited: 3/13/2015 1:06:01 AM by JSF
bobcat2nc
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Posted: 3/13/2015 2:14 PM
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I never liked the current format and still don't. I understand all the reasons to do it but feel like it does a couple of things that undercut the MAC. 1) Greatly limits the chances of a 5-8 team to win the tourney (always tough but tougher under this format). 2) Reduces the chance for a bubble team to get in the NCAA... If a team is a bubble team it is probably one of the 1 or 2 seeds. If that team only plays 2 games in tourney and loses the final it would be harder for the selection committee to choose them (assuming they take this into consideration at all).
OU_Country
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Posted: 3/13/2015 3:12 PM
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JSF wrote:expand_more
As always, there just weren't enough people to support a four game Thursday. How many people would be in attendance for all four? 300? How many people watched the early games on TV?

This is an interesting way to look at it for the afternoon games. Maybe have the quarters the way they used to, but play them in consecutive evenings, and give the highest seeds the advantage of a day off?
bobcatsquared
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Posted: 3/13/2015 4:09 PM
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Notre Dame beats Duke in ACC semi later tonight if the Irish play like they did last night in first half v. Hurricanes.

ND loses to Duke if they play like they did in second half v. Miami.
JSF
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Posted: 3/13/2015 4:29 PM
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bobcat2nc wrote:expand_more
If that team only plays 2 games in tourney and loses the final it would be harder for the selection committee to choose them (assuming they take this into consideration at all).
An additional game against a mediocre at best team is not going to make or break a resume.
OUVan
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Posted: 3/13/2015 5:43 PM
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JSF wrote:expand_more
An additional game against a mediocre at best team is not going to make or break a resume.
Are you saying you prefer this format?
JSF
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Posted: 3/13/2015 5:47 PM
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OUVan wrote:expand_more
An additional game against a mediocre at best team is not going to make or break a resume.
Are you saying you prefer this format?
I'm on board with whatever is in the conference's best interests.
Ohio69
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Posted: 3/13/2015 6:28 PM
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CMU is gonna win it all this year.

And the next few years the MAC will be Keno Davis vs Saul Phillips.
bobcatsquared
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Posted: 3/13/2015 6:29 PM
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UB wins it all this year
JSF
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Posted: 3/13/2015 6:40 PM
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Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
CMU is gonna win it all this year.

And the next few years the MAC will be Keno Davis vs Saul Phillips.
Keno Davis's history suggests he'll take the first train out of town.
Ohio69
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Posted: 3/13/2015 7:56 PM
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True JSF. But I assume it will take a few years to get the Providence stink off.

Chips guards look pretty good so far tonight.
perimeterpost
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Posted: 3/13/2015 8:54 PM
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OT but I just saw where last year's FOY Zavier Turner announced he is transferring from Ball State. Tough break for the Red Birds.
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Posted: 3/13/2015 9:10 PM
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Ball State's board seemed to expect it.
ts1227
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Posted: 3/13/2015 10:09 PM
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After tonight's loss, Toledo already came out and said they won't play in CBI or CIT if invited. Arkley ranting about it on Twitter now.
JSF
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Posted: 3/13/2015 11:24 PM
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I'm going to guess CMU opens as 2.5 point favorites against UB.
BuddyLee
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Posted: 3/13/2015 11:24 PM
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ts1227 wrote:expand_more
After tonight's loss, Toledo already came out and said they won't play in CBI or CIT if invited. Arkley ranting about it on Twitter now.

Wonder if it's due to not wanting to lose money, or cause they think they're just too good for it.
Last Edited: 3/13/2015 11:26:00 PM by BuddyLee
ts1227
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Posted: 3/13/2015 11:31 PM
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BuddyLee wrote:expand_more
After tonight's loss, Toledo already came out and said they won't play in CBI or CIT if invited. Arkley ranting about it on Twitter now.

Wonder if it's due to not wanting to lose money, or cause they think they're just too good for it.
I assume the latter, only because schools have agreed to play if they don't have to host in the past (that's where you lose the most money due to the stupid hosting fees)

Also it was stated that it was a team decision, not Athletic Dept.
Last Edited: 3/13/2015 11:32:38 PM by ts1227
Victory
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Posted: 3/14/2015 6:06 AM
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You have to figure winner tonight to the NCAA and the loser to the NIT without a doubt. There are then 7 teams that have a resume that would spell CBI or NIT. I wouldn't think Toledo or Kent or BGSU would quite qualify for the NIT with a few teams with worse resumes than them winning their league regular season or tournament and taking up a few of the 100 combined spots. I had wondered if there might be a problem with Eastern or Western having to stay home with all the parity in the MAC at the "pretty decent but not all that good level." So many teams are ranked just over 100. You need to be in the top 90 or so to get an at large bid to the NIT. Toledo turning down a bid may open a spot up that someone else may not have gotten not because they weren't deserving but because they were looking for a way to not have 4 teams from one league in a minor tournament.
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