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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Wadly granted release
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bornacatfan
4/12/2016 11:30 PM
Actually the reason behind the rule as discussed amongst the folks at the NCAA level is that they believe it is a huge upheaval for an athlete to switch schools, assimilate into a new student body, get classes to transfer and get back on a graduation track, sort out credits that will or won't transfer, get the lay of the land, mesh into their new team and a variety of other things that are a bit more complex than walking into a gym and playing ball. They really do look at the athlete and how much it actually takes to academically meld into a new school situation...most of those changes being the academic challenges that all but 2 rounds of draft choices will need to deal with as a student in order become part of the new school then to graduate.
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perimeterpost
4/13/2016 12:24 AM
With Wadley's departure here's the roster break down by class-

2 Sr- Campbell, Kaminski
3 Jr- Simmons, Laster, Harley
4 So- Dartis, Block, Taylor, Gollon
2 Fr- (RS)Dozier, Carter

Two scholarships available. I would be in favor of replacing Wadley with a 5th yr transfer if it was the right player.
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Monroe Slavin
4/13/2016 3:24 AM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
My only concern is whether or not Saul had an inkling this might happen and planned (recruited) accordingly. Otherwise, it's a little late in the game to be serious contenders for high school players. I'm going to assume that Saul and staff planned for this possibility.
Dude, you can't really think that BetterCallSaul is that unworldly wise?

If a coach isn't preparing for almost anything, let alone something as likely as this, I'm surprised said coach could find front door.

What you are thinking.
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71 BOBCAT
4/13/2016 8:49 AM
As we have all seen recently the players left for spring signing are questionable players at best. The 2 signed by SP in his 1st spring have not performed, Ryan Taylor transferred and Mike Laster is a marginal player at best.
I kind of agree that a 5th year player may just be the best option. We need PG help and SP needs to bring in at least 1 come next fall during that signing period.

GO BOBCATS
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OUVan
4/13/2016 8:54 AM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
Hopefully Wadly is able to play next year. Is there a more obnoxious rule in College Athletics than players having to sit out a year? Never heard a good reason for why students have to sit out....
Here's a good reason: without this rule, it would be open season for schools to continually recruit from and raid the rosters of other schools.
Yep, we would be a farm team for the big boys.
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OU_Country
4/13/2016 9:21 AM
71 BOBCAT wrote:expand_more
As we have all seen recently the players left for spring signing are questionable players at best. The 2 signed by SP in his 1st spring have not performed, Ryan Taylor transferred and Mike Laster is a marginal player at best.
I kind of agree that a 5th year player may just be the best option. We need PG help and SP needs to bring in at least 1 come next fall during that signing period.

GO BOBCATS
I'm not sure Mike is "marginal", as much as Dartis is just a little better than him. Jerome Tillman was a late signee if I recall. He was quite marginal. ;)


I agree with the general thought that signing everyone early to get the best opportunity for recruits that fit the mold of what the coaching staff wants. That said, I'd challenge your comments with two thoughts:

1) There are plenty of kids who wait to commit until late to see if they can get high major offers. They may not, and may be available to Saul & staff as an option.

2) There are good players who de-commit after a coaching staff they signed/committed to in the fall ends up getting fired. Take Maishe Danley that Ohio was recruiting as an example. Committed to Rutgers until the coaches were replaced. He has now "re-opened" his recruitment process, as he should in my opinion.
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UpSan Bobcat
4/13/2016 10:06 AM
As noted, there is a wide variety of the types of high school players still available at this point. Some of the ones Ohio has signed late recently include guys who didn't have many offers, and some of those guys have worked out better than others.

But some of the guys who still are available are top-level recruits. It's not just guys who missed out on offers the first time. The #3 player in the country didn't decided until just the other day. There are guys of all levels of recruiting interest who have waited for various reasons.
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Alan Swank
4/13/2016 10:49 AM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Actually the reason behind the rule as discussed amongst the folks at the NCAA level is that they believe it is a huge upheaval for an athlete to switch schools, assimilate into a new student body, get classes to transfer and get back on a graduation track, sort out credits that will or won't transfer, get the lay of the land, mesh into their new team and a variety of other things that are a bit more complex than walking into a gym and playing ball. They really do look at the athlete and how much it actually takes to academically meld into a new school situation...most of those changes being the academic challenges that all but 2 rounds of draft choices will need to deal with as a student in order become part of the new school then to graduate.
This description of the NCAA sounds like the definition of a helicopter parent to me. Academically meld into a new school situation? Millions of freshmen do it every year without the support structure provided to athletes. It's no big deal - show up, go to class and study.
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bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
4/13/2016 11:00 AM
71 BOBCAT wrote:expand_more
As we have all seen recently the players left for spring signing are questionable players at best. The 2 signed by SP in his 1st spring have not performed, Ryan Taylor transferred and Mike Laster is a marginal player at best.
I kind of agree that a 5th year player may just be the best option. We need PG help and SP needs to bring in at least 1 come next fall during that signing period.

GO BOBCATS
Jerome Tillman, Ivo Baltic, Travis Wilkins all late signing period guys. So were Ryan Taylor and Ethan Jacobs. Yah, the last two guys transferred out, but they were both solid players.

There is talent out there with guys like Rodney Culver and Desmond Bane, probably more to be discovered too.

It would be great to get a 5th year player who can play right away, but that would probably be a big or a wing, not a PG. I can't imagine any PG is going to willingly spend their final season playing 5 minutes a game behind Jaaron, unless its a Chandler Thomas type transfer.
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OU_Country
4/13/2016 11:40 AM
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:expand_more
As we have all seen recently the players left for spring signing are questionable players at best. The 2 signed by SP in his 1st spring have not performed, Ryan Taylor transferred and Mike Laster is a marginal player at best.
I kind of agree that a 5th year player may just be the best option. We need PG help and SP needs to bring in at least 1 come next fall during that signing period.

GO BOBCATS
Jerome Tillman, Ivo Baltic, Travis Wilkins all late signing period guys. So were Ryan Taylor and Ethan Jacobs. Yah, the last two guys transferred out, but they were both solid players.

There is talent out there with guys like Rodney Culver and Desmond Bane, probably more to be discovered too.

It would be great to get a 5th year player who can play right away, but that would probably be a big or a wing, not a PG. I can't imagine any PG is going to willingly spend their final season playing 5 minutes a game behind Jaaron, unless its a Chandler Thomas type transfer.
The only 5th year guy I've wondered about is the kid from Michigan - Albrecht. I've no idea if he's a fit, but he is available, and has played at a high level in the past.
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bobcatsquared
4/13/2016 3:03 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
My only concern is whether or not Saul had an inkling this might happen and planned (recruited) accordingly. Otherwise, it's a little late in the game to be serious contenders for high school players. I'm going to assume that Saul and staff planned for this possibility.
It wouldn't surprise me if one of the incoming players, if they're a frosh, was red-shirted from the start. There is also the real potential that they just hold onto this scholarship for next fall.

OU Country, thank you for the respectful and insightful response. Amazingly, it didn't take you 7K-plus posts to display such quality insight.
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OU_Country
4/13/2016 4:00 PM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
My only concern is whether or not Saul had an inkling this might happen and planned (recruited) accordingly. Otherwise, it's a little late in the game to be serious contenders for high school players. I'm going to assume that Saul and staff planned for this possibility.
It wouldn't surprise me if one of the incoming players, if they're a frosh, was red-shirted from the start. There is also the real potential that they just hold onto this scholarship for next fall.

OU Country, thank you for the respectful and insightful response. Amazingly, it didn't take you 7K-plus posts to display such quality insight.
You're welcome. I'm not sure how insightful I am. ;)

I just look at who we already have and figure Saul isn't going to play 10-12 deep, so we'll likely see him push a player back for a year, or hold on to the scholly for the fall period. I can't see three frosh getting major PT with the returnees, so at least one almost HAS to red-shirt by the time November rolls around.
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Speaker of Truth
4/15/2016 2:51 PM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
Hopefully Wadly is able to play next year. Is there a more obnoxious rule in College Athletics than players having to sit out a year? Never heard a good reason for why students have to sit out....
Here's a good reason: without this rule, it would be open season for schools to continually recruit from and raid the rosters of other schools.
Yep, we would be a farm team for the big boys.
Why does this matter? These are student athletes that you are putting their freedom to make a decision for their own well being underneath your fear they may want to play at a better school?

Just make a rule that schools can't recruit other players. Why punish the student athletes because other people are going to act poorly?

What if a student wants to transfer to a school because it is better academically? These are student athletes right? Students first, that's why they can't be paid.

Again, I ask....Is there any good reason why student athletes have to sit out a year?
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Speaker of Truth
4/15/2016 2:54 PM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Actually the reason behind the rule as discussed amongst the folks at the NCAA level is that they believe it is a huge upheaval for an athlete to switch schools, assimilate into a new student body, get classes to transfer and get back on a graduation track, sort out credits that will or won't transfer, get the lay of the land, mesh into their new team and a variety of other things that are a bit more complex than walking into a gym and playing ball. They really do look at the athlete and how much it actually takes to academically meld into a new school situation...most of those changes being the academic challenges that all but 2 rounds of draft choices will need to deal with as a student in order become part of the new school then to graduate.
Borna, I can't say I disgree with that line of thinking, but shouldn't that be a decision for the student athlete to make?

The rule clearly isn't in place from an academic standpoint, this is just the NCAA covering their tracks. If they cared about academics, they would play all games on the weekends to minimize missed class, have less practice hours, etc,

What if they wanted to transfer to a better school academically?
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bornacatfan
4/15/2016 4:36 PM
the123kid wrote:expand_more
Borna, I can't say I disgree with that line of thinking, but shouldn't that be a decision for the student athlete to make?

The rule clearly isn't in place from an academic standpoint, this is just the NCAA covering their tracks. If they cared about academics, they would play all games on the weekends to minimize missed class, have less practice hours, etc,

What if they wanted to transfer to a better school academically?
Just the messenger here repeating what the folks at the NCAA here in Indy are saying from ME on down in interviews I have watched and heard.

Met a lady on the plane to Utah that worked in NCAA Compliance and listened to her talk about transfers in terms of acclimitizing to the new situation, getting credits to transfer and majors straight in the new school, getting on track with tutors and lots of things I had not given much thought. I don't have their view of student athletes but I better understand their bigger picture view. FWIW...I think it is right to sit a year for reasons on many levels... in actuality ...it is a free year of school. I fail to see, for the guys who are not lottery picks, why that would be a bad thing.
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bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
4/15/2016 5:19 PM
the123kid wrote:expand_more
Hopefully Wadly is able to play next year. Is there a more obnoxious rule in College Athletics than players having to sit out a year? Never heard a good reason for why students have to sit out....
Here's a good reason: without this rule, it would be open season for schools to continually recruit from and raid the rosters of other schools.
Yep, we would be a farm team for the big boys.
Why does this matter? These are student athletes that you are putting their freedom to make a decision for their own well being underneath your fear they may want to play at a better school?

Just make a rule that schools can't recruit other players. Why punish the student athletes because other people are going to act poorly?

What if a student wants to transfer to a school because it is better academically? These are student athletes right? Students first, that's why they can't be paid.

Again, I ask....Is there any good reason why student athletes have to sit out a year?
You are being naive if you think any more than 5% of transfers move schools because of academic reasons. Guys transfer to get more playing time, or in a lot of the grad transfers cases to play at a better school. If you want to get rid of the Transfer Redshirt rule fine, but be prepared for the NCAA to turn into the NBA where everyone is on an expiring contract every year.
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Speaker of Truth
4/15/2016 6:04 PM
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:expand_more
Hopefully Wadly is able to play next year. Is there a more obnoxious rule in College Athletics than players having to sit out a year? Never heard a good reason for why students have to sit out....
Here's a good reason: without this rule, it would be open season for schools to continually recruit from and raid the rosters of other schools.
Yep, we would be a farm team for the big boys.
Why does this matter? These are student athletes that you are putting their freedom to make a decision for their own well being underneath your fear they may want to play at a better school?

Just make a rule that schools can't recruit other players. Why punish the student athletes because other people are going to act poorly?

What if a student wants to transfer to a school because it is better academically? These are student athletes right? Students first, that's why they can't be paid.

Again, I ask....Is there any good reason why student athletes have to sit out a year?
You are being naive if you think any more than 5% of transfers move schools because of academic reasons. Guys transfer to get more playing time, or in a lot of the grad transfers cases to play at a better school. If you want to get rid of the Transfer Redshirt rule fine, but be prepared for the NCAA to turn into the NBA where everyone is on an expiring contract every year.
I bet the % is less than 5% maybe even 1%. That's not the point, the point is that they're restricting these students from doing what they desire to do. Scholarships are 1 year contracts FYI, take a look at kids that get kicked of teams or released.

Kaminski is a great example, Coach makes a decision that costs him a year and he has no say in the matter.

I agree that it will hurt schools like OU, but who are we to say what schools a guy should attend?
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Alan Swank
4/15/2016 6:19 PM
[/QUOTE]I bet the % is less than 5% maybe even 1%. That's not the point, the point is that they're restricting these students from doing what they desire to do. Scholarships are 1 year contracts FYI, take a look at kids that get kicked of teams or released.

Kaminski is a great example, Coach makes a decision that costs him a year and he has no say in the matter.

I agree that it will hurt schools like OU, but who are we to say what schools a guy should attend?

[/QUOTE]No, they are restricting athletes from doing what they desire. It's Ohio University not Ohio FC. Nowhere in the founding principles of any college or university does it state that they exist for the purpose of promoting intercollegiate athletic competition.
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colobobcat66
4/15/2016 8:35 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
[/QUOTE]I bet the % is less than 5% maybe even 1%. That's not the point, the point is that they're restricting these students from doing what they desire to do. Scholarships are 1 year contracts FYI, take a look at kids that get kicked of teams or released.

Kaminski is a great example, Coach makes a decision that costs him a year and he has no say in the matter.

I agree that it will hurt schools like OU, but who are we to say what schools a guy should attend?

[/QUOTE]No, they are restricting athletes from doing what they desire. It's Ohio University not Ohio FC. Nowhere in the founding principles of any college or university does it state that they exist for the purpose of promoting intercollegiate athletic competition.

The rules don't prevent a student from attending where they want, they just don't get to play varsity athletics for a year. What's wrong with a little more education?

Re Kaminski-I think he needed a year to mature and grow up some. He got into trouble multiple times with Izzo. I don't think coach made "the" decision, I lay that on the kid. He had a big say in the matter. I don't think that he should lose a year of eligibility because he sat it out though.
Last Edited: 4/16/2016 12:59:38 PM by colobobcat66
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Speaker of Truth
4/16/2016 3:34 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
[/QUOTE]I bet the % is less than 5% maybe even 1%. That's not the point, the point is that they're restricting these students from doing what they desire to do. Scholarships are 1 year contracts FYI, take a look at kids that get kicked of teams or released.

Kaminski is a great example, Coach makes a decision that costs him a year and he has no say in the matter.

I agree that it will hurt schools like OU, but who are we to say what schools a guy should attend?

[/QUOTE]No, they are restricting athletes from doing what they desire. It's Ohio University not Ohio FC. Nowhere in the founding principles of any college or university does it state that they exist for the purpose of promoting intercollegiate athletic competition.
Alan, I agree with you. Based on what you say, there should be no reason for a student to have to sit out a year. Am I reading it wrong?
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Speaker of Truth
4/16/2016 3:36 PM
colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
I bet the % is less than 5% maybe even 1%. That's not the point, the point is that they're restricting these students from doing what they desire to do. Scholarships are 1 year contracts FYI, take a look at kids that get kicked of teams or released.

Kaminski is a great example, Coach makes a decision that costs him a year and he has no say in the matter.

I agree that it will hurt schools like OU, but who are we to say what schools a guy should attend?

[/QUOTE]No, they are restricting athletes from doing what they desire. It's Ohio University not Ohio FC. Nowhere in the founding principles of any college or university does it state that they exist for the purpose of promoting intercollegiate athletic competition.

[/QUOTE]
The rules don't prevent a student from attending where they want, they just don't get to play varsity athletics for a year. What's wrong with a little more education?

Re Kaminski-I think he needed a year to mature and grow up some. He got into trouble multiple times with Izzo. I don't think coach made "the" decision, I lay that on the kid. He had a big say in the matter. I don't think that he should lose a year of eligibility because he sat it out though.
Kenny might've needed a year to mature, I can't argue that. I have no problem with a Coach kicking a player off a team, but if he does so, there is no reason a player should have to sit out.

The rules are extremely stacked against the athletes, they have no right or say in anything that affects them. Rules are made by the people who are profiting the most.
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bornacatfan
4/16/2016 8:33 PM
the123kid wrote:expand_more
Kenny might've needed a year to mature, I can't argue that. I have no problem with a Coach kicking a player off a team, but if he does so, there is no reason a player should have to sit out.

The rules are extremely stacked against the athletes, they have no right or say in anything that affects them. Rules are made by the people who are profiting the most.
Give me some real examples of rules being stacked against athletes. I am not following that.

Seems to me both parties have a leg up on each other. When you are basing your professional life on the actions and whims of 18 to 22 year olds you both have a situation where you depend on each other for success. How is the balance totally tipped in the favor of the institution or coach?. How does that compare to 20 30 years ago or have we reconsidered how we view coach/player relations and athlete/institutional responsibilities?

Obviously, the coaches who are like Bobby Knight or the situation at Rutgers have been unacceptable in this day and generation but do we have a situation brewing where the athletes are their own agents and run the program?

How is it there such and obvious disparity where the consensus is that the rules are "extremely" stacked against the athletes and what do you base your personal experiences non anecdotal judgements on?
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OUVan
4/17/2016 12:15 AM
the123kid wrote:expand_more
Just make a rule that schools can't recruit other players.
That rule is already in place but that didn't stop a big school from trying to get DJ to transfer after his freshman season. Relying on a rule not to be broken is ridiculous.

Sorry but without having to sit out there would be teams fielding almost all walk-on teams. I really don't see the problem with making them sit out a year. They don't lose a year of eligibility unless they transfer more than once.
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colobobcat66
4/17/2016 8:13 AM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
Just make a rule that schools can't recruit other players.
That rule is already in place but that didn't stop a big school from trying to get DJ to transfer after his freshman season. Relying on a rule not to be broken is ridiculous.

Sorry but without having to sit out there would be teams fielding almost all walk-on teams. I really don't see the problem with making them sit out a year. They don't lose a year of eligibility unless they transfer more than once.
I thought Kaminski lost a year of eligibility?
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bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
4/17/2016 10:58 AM
colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
Just make a rule that schools can't recruit other players.
That rule is already in place but that didn't stop a big school from trying to get DJ to transfer after his freshman season. Relying on a rule not to be broken is ridiculous.

Sorry but without having to sit out there would be teams fielding almost all walk-on teams. I really don't see the problem with making them sit out a year. They don't lose a year of eligibility unless they transfer more than once.
I thought Kaminski lost a year of eligibility?
Players get 5 years to play 4 seasons, but unfortunately Kaminski redshirted his first year at MSU following shoulder surgery. There is a chance he can gain a 6th year of eligibility, but unfortunately we won't know until next year.

Former Cincinnati and Ball State player Jeremiah Davis was just granted a 6th year of eligibility in a similar situation so there is a chance Kaminski could get one as well.
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