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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Wadly granted release
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Speaker of Truth
4/19/2016 9:58 PM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Kenny might've needed a year to mature, I can't argue that. I have no problem with a Coach kicking a player off a team, but if he does so, there is no reason a player should have to sit out.

The rules are extremely stacked against the athletes, they have no right or say in anything that affects them. Rules are made by the people who are profiting the most.
Give me some real examples of rules being stacked against athletes. I am not following that.

Seems to me both parties have a leg up on each other. When you are basing your professional life on the actions and whims of 18 to 22 year olds you both have a situation where you depend on each other for success. How is the balance totally tipped in the favor of the institution or coach?. How does that compare to 20 30 years ago or have we reconsidered how we view coach/player relations and athlete/institutional responsibilities?

Obviously, the coaches who are like Bobby Knight or the situation at Rutgers have been unacceptable in this day and generation but do we have a situation brewing where the athletes are their own agents and run the program?

How is it there such and obvious disparity where the consensus is that the rules are "extremely" stacked against the athletes and what do you base your personal experiences non anecdotal judgements on?

Borna, The Athletes have no voting power in the rules that they must follow. Every other professional sports league in the world, the athletes have a say. A few examples: Transfer Rules, compensation, practice requirements, game travel. If these are student athletes and it is about developing them as students first, then make it about that. My issue is that the NCAA wants it both ways. They want to claim it is about the students and then go around and make billions.

To be clear, I am discussing the big two sports: Men's Hoops and Football.
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Speaker of Truth
4/19/2016 10:01 PM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
Just make a rule that schools can't recruit other players.
That rule is already in place but that didn't stop a big school from trying to get DJ to transfer after his freshman season. Relying on a rule not to be broken is ridiculous.

Sorry but without having to sit out there would be teams fielding almost all walk-on teams. I really don't see the problem with making them sit out a year. They don't lose a year of eligibility unless they transfer more than once.
OUVan, what you are saying is that because coaches won't follow the rules, we need to punish the players....that's pretty backwards thinking. You're treating these students like they are there purely for your enjoyment as a fan, it's actually pretty sad.
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Jeff McKinney
4/19/2016 10:33 PM
Agree with the Van on this.
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OUVan
4/20/2016 9:42 AM
the123kid wrote:expand_more
OUVan, what you are saying is that because coaches won't follow the rules, we need to punish the players....that's pretty backwards thinking. You're treating these students like they are there purely for your enjoyment as a fan, it's actually pretty sad.
Is it sad? The schools, who they committed to, are living up to their end of the bargain. They are getting their education paid for and still are able to play basketball. Sorry, don't see the sadness.
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cc-cat
4/20/2016 9:53 AM
Let's make scholarships for four years and not "renewable" on a yearly basis and start other discussions from there.
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bornacatfan
4/20/2016 9:57 AM
the123kid wrote:expand_more
Borna, The Athletes have no voting power in the rules that they must follow. Every other PROFESSIONAL sports league in the world, the athletes have a say.
well you are absolutely right about that.

Just Curious. Do you have a say in the rules of your profession? I can be active in my professional society but the rules of Insurance, Medicare, OSHA, IRS...I don't really have a choice. Pretty much quid pro quo...I get to eat and survive if I follow the rules....as outdated and unfair as some of them are. WOnder why professional athletes get to mandate ....
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GoCats105
4/20/2016 11:14 AM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
Let's make scholarships for four years and not "renewable" on a yearly basis and start other discussions from there.
That's an interesting scenario simply because it more or less turns into a 4-year contract and not a scholarship. Legalities of that would cause a lot of headaches.
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Bobcatbob
4/20/2016 2:30 PM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Borna, The Athletes have no voting power in the rules that they must follow. Every other PROFESSIONAL sports league in the world, the athletes have a say.
well you are absolutely right about that.

Just Curious. Do you have a say in the rules of your profession? I can be active in my professional society but the rules of Insurance, Medicare, OSHA, IRS...I don't really have a choice. Pretty much quid pro quo...I get to eat and survive if I follow the rules....as outdated and unfair as some of them are. WOnder why professional athletes get to mandate ....
I believe that the only way this is happening anywhere is through collective bargaining and/or litigation. The short-lived Northwestern union organization is proof it's not happening on campus any time soon.

Missouri had some success with a "labor" action, which led to this interesting proposal in the Missouri House (later withdrawn).

http://www.stltoday.com/news/legislation-targets-mizzou-f...
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cc-cat
4/20/2016 3:33 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
Let's make scholarships for four years and not "renewable" on a yearly basis and start other discussions from there.
That's an interesting scenario simply because it more or less turns into a 4-year contract and not a scholarship. Legalities of that would cause a lot of headaches.
Actually it is already and option - but many schools do not.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solom...

Not sure why not? Would think it could be a recruiting tool.
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bornacatfan
4/20/2016 4:25 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
Let's make scholarships for four years and not "renewable" on a yearly basis and start other discussions from there.
That's an interesting scenario simply because it more or less turns into a 4-year contract and not a scholarship. Legalities of that would cause a lot of headaches.
Actually it is already and option - but many schools do not.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solom...

Not sure why not? Would think it could be a recruiting tool.

That is a must read article for folks who want to understand how we got here. Good posting.

Not sure but I think I remember a couple of conferences were passing mandates that they would all be giving 4 year rides.
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Speaker of Truth
4/20/2016 11:38 PM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Borna, The Athletes have no voting power in the rules that they must follow. Every other PROFESSIONAL sports league in the world, the athletes have a say.
well you are absolutely right about that.

Just Curious. Do you have a say in the rules of your profession? I can be active in my professional society but the rules of Insurance, Medicare, OSHA, IRS...I don't really have a choice. Pretty much quid pro quo...I get to eat and survive if I follow the rules....as outdated and unfair as some of them are. WOnder why professional athletes get to mandate ....
No real regulations, but I see your point. I was never a big fan of "Well Scenario A isn't fair so Scenerio B should just put up with it". I like to look at it as it's own scenario.
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Eagle66
4/21/2016 6:43 PM
Sorry to pull this back around to the original topic... But Wadley might not be leaving after all...

Per Jeff Goodman - Wadly Mompremier has opted not to transfer and remain at Ohio U, sources told ESPN. No one’s weekend just got as good as Saul Phillips’.

https://twitter.com/goodmanespn/status/723257930812932096

Arkley said a return is probable but not a done deal.

http://www.athensmessenger.com/sports/ohiouniversity/pote...
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bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
4/21/2016 10:31 PM
Eagle66 wrote:expand_more
Sorry to pull this back around to the original topic... But Wadley might not be leaving after all...

Per Jeff Goodman - Wadly Mompremier has opted not to transfer and remain at Ohio U, sources told ESPN. No one’s weekend just got as good as Saul Phillips’.

https://twitter.com/goodmanespn/status/723257930812932096

Arkley said a return is probable but not a done deal.

http://www.athensmessenger.com/sports/ohiouniversity/pote...
Didn't see this reply when I posted the news in it's own thread, but given the seemingly fluid nature of this decision I think it makes the most sense to stay in this thread.

Interesting that Arkley makes it seem like it is not a done deal one way or the other, but Wadly did retweet Goodman's tweet that he was back.
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Chicken George
4/21/2016 11:13 PM
Not sure my thoughts are kosher or not, but unless SP thinks 1 of the available scholarships will go unused and he might as well allow Wadley to take it for one year,or he foresees Wadley serving a purpose such as the remote possibility Tony leaves for Europe and he'd be needed, I don't give him the scholarship back. If SP has another quality recruit that he feels he's going to sign, or an impact transfer that would serve a greater purpose--I'd use the "your lack decision making doesn't constitute an emergency on my behalf" line of reasoning. Once again, I'm note sure how this would sit, but if SP has made alternative plans he feels good about at this crucial juncture in the recruiting process, especially if the roster will utilize Wadley as little as it did this past year, I move on. Those are my initial thoughts.
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UpSan Bobcat
4/22/2016 9:18 AM
Chicken George wrote:expand_more
Not sure my thoughts are kosher or not, but unless SP thinks 1 of the available scholarships will go unused and he might as well allow Wadley to take it for one year,or he foresees Wadley serving a purpose such as the remote possibility Tony leaves for Europe and he'd be needed, I don't give him the scholarship back. If SP has another quality recruit that he feels he's going to sign, or an impact transfer that would serve a greater purpose--I'd use the "your lack decision making doesn't constitute an emergency on my behalf" line of reasoning. Once again, I'm note sure how this would sit, but if SP has made alternative plans he feels good about at this crucial juncture in the recruiting process, especially if the roster will utilize Wadley as little as it did this past year, I move on. Those are my initial thoughts.
Kind of reading between the lines, but it sounds like that probably is exactly the case. If they mutually agree it'd be a good situation for him to stay, then he still might do so.
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Dexcat
4/22/2016 11:32 AM
Chicken George wrote:expand_more
Not sure my thoughts are kosher or not, but unless SP thinks 1 of the available scholarships will go unused and he might as well allow Wadley to take it for one year,or he foresees Wadley serving a purpose such as the remote possibility Tony leaves for Europe and he'd be needed, I don't give him the scholarship back. If SP has another quality recruit that he feels he's going to sign, or an impact transfer that would serve a greater purpose--I'd use the "your lack decision making doesn't constitute an emergency on my behalf" line of reasoning. Once again, I'm note sure how this would sit, but if SP has made alternative plans he feels good about at this crucial juncture in the recruiting process, especially if the roster will utilize Wadley as little as it did this past year, I move on. Those are my initial thoughts.
I realize Saul has a system for basketball, but I don't think he views his players as assets or tools to best fit. I think he'll treat Wadley like a person and is probably trying to help Wadley find the best scenario possible. If that is to play here (albeit limited with Dougie and Tony), but he can finish his degree in time then that's the move he'll make and give him a scholarship regardless of recruiting.
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