Even if he hasn’t yet lost the team, he has clearly lost me.....when apathy sets in, your issues become far greater than one individual....The time for Saul to go is now!..... 14 months from now and there may be nothing left to recover from.

And this is the bigger issue...great post here^^^^. So many are harping on Jason Carter's absence, but let's be real, Jason Carter is not Gary Trent. Would he make a difference and help...absolutely. But let's not get too carried away here. I am greatly concerned about the level of talent Saul has already brought in and what is coming in. None of the three signed for next year are slam dunk automatic contributors in year one. Heck, one or two could be considered projects. #SaulBall has me baffled right now.

Did Saul ever really have this program? We all like to say "Saul Ball" but what exactly is "Saul Ball?" I think he's a nice guy. I think he is a good person. I think he probably knows his stuff. But what is his vision? In year 1 we gave him a pass and said that it was a bunch of bad apples. In year 2 we get to see Tone come into his own and a great leader in Treg combining with Kaminski (once again, a great guy but how does he fit into Saul Ball?). And of course Jaaron has an amazing first year.

Year 3 we get Jaaron dribbling for 25 seconds and no player development. Dartis, Taylor and Block have been in the program playing major minutes for THREE YEARS. Gollon is in year 3 and so is Dozier. No improvement from any of those guys. We get Mickle in and he seemingly does not fit our program at all. Once again...nice guy, nice athleticism but how does he FIT? I would wonder if we should have found a diamond in the rough freshman rather than him. And look at next year's class. So McMurray seems like a "find." Murrell can't even get court time on a JUCO. Springs scores 20 one game and three the next. If you look at who we were interested in and lost out on that is also telling. I am not excited about next year's trio and don't know if Vander Plas will ever play.

I fell for the smile. I fell for the "aw shucks" stuff and I fell for the Wisconsin accent. I fell for the "I am going to stay here until my daughter graduates high school" stuff. But in year 4, injuries or no injuries, transfers or no transfers, we are not getting better while programs like Ball State, Buffalo and Toledo are getting much better.

Saul sounds just as frustrated as we do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M_ynZfJtUc

So let's say this season they finish .500, a little better, or a little worse than that. In your opinion what is the least amount it takes for an extension after 2019? A MAC title? A MAC title appearance? 25+ wins?

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but I can easily see an extension from this administration if there are 25 wins, noticeable improvement in player development and a MAC title appearance, but no title.
[/QUOTE]A .500ish finish next year would have to finish the Saulball era. We're not paying a mediocre MAC salary, so we shouldn't tolerate what would then be five years of mediocre results with the highest achievement being a close loss in a MAC tournament semifinal.

That's a long way from being mad a Jim Christian because he lost in the finals and grousing about making the CIT.

The last losing season at Ohio was Groce's first, and I think we all give a long leash to a first-year coach. We're about to suffer a losing season in year FOUR. We used to laugh at Miami for stuff like this, but now we're Miami. And Miami has excuses - they starved their program of money and attention to kill it. We're killing it while paying top-dollar in the conference to do so. At the risk of sounding like Chuck Landon, it's unacceptable.

I posted one time that he needed to recruit players that were at a minimum Carter/Kirk level or higher. No scrubs except as walk-ons.

This was amended with the prediction of what happened last night would happen.

Anybody still want to ridicule that post?

**and yes, Carter has lots of potential when healthy but his name is not Wilt or Kareem. Or Moses Malone or Artis Gilmore. Or Tim Duncan. His absence is not worth the home court @ss beating that happened.

I'm as frustrated (pi$$ed) as anyone, but if you're on here calling for Saul's head, then you've lost the ability to reason. Last year we lost our best player in January, and still grabbed the 2-seed in this conference. He didn't forget how to coach, and no one here has any clue what goes in the locker room. He deserves and will get a chance to get this right again.

I agree - and there's a TON of inability to reason happening 'round here these days.

I've defended them, to an extent, because of injuries. There's no defense for losing that bad at home, ever. Everyone knows it - especially the 15 players plus the coaches in the locker room. There's not much left to say about last night besides the fact that it was terrible all around.

I whole-heartedly disagree with any notion that the prior two seasons were "disappointing". If your expectation is something resembling the 2011-2013 years, then yeah, they are. But those 2011-13 years well above what the norm was in the prior 25 years of Ohio Basketball, save the three years of Gary Trent's time here. The prior two seasons are at, or a little above the norm. We've already covered what some people place as expectations on this program. Whatever yours are individually are up to you. While there's little question that this season has been well below expectations, I also know that some seem have expectations that will never be met here, regardless of who the coach is.

To say that we are Miami, ohhh boy, that's flat out absurd. That would imply that our program has been among the bottom 3 in the MAC over 5,6 years with multiple coaches. That's what is happening this year, but it sure as hell isn't what happened the previous two seasons.