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General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events Topic
Topic: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
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TWT
9/13/2022 12:13 PM
I guess the universities pandemic panic projections of smaller enrollments didn't play out the way they intended. Record freshman class size and GPA. Also almost a quarter (23%) in the top 10% of their HS class a metric President Glidden said was indicative of a top tier public university.

Quote:expand_more
In total, the Athens Campus welcomed the largest ever freshman class at 4,441 incoming first-year students, a 21 percent increase from 2021. The class includes the highest number of Ohio residents on record at 3,908, as well as 679 children of OHIO alumni and more than 1,100 students who will be the first in their family to earn a college degree.

https://www.ohio.edu/news/2022/09/ohio-brings-record-sett... [/QUOTE][QUOTE]Over the summer, Ohio University gave select students who were supposed to live in on-campus residence halls the option to relocate to apartments in River Park Towers due to the enrollment size of its freshman class.

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2022/09/ohio-univer...
River Park apartments contracted out to handle the overflow.
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TWT
9/13/2022 12:17 PM
Quote:expand_more
Ohio University received more than 100 student housing contracts over capacity for the 2022-23 academic year, altering future housing plans at OU.

The university’s housing programmatic capacity for 2022 is 7,230 beds, but 7,359 students had housing contracts going into the Fall Semester. To extend its capacity, OU offered residential students housing at River Park Towers.

Audrianna Wilde, a junior studying journalism who is a senior resident adviser (SRA) for Bryan Hall, said the limited availability has made it hard for students to get room changes.

“What I've heard is that we are basically at max capacity,” Wilde said. “I mean, what you've just seen on campus is people are living in apartments that are rented out and stuff like that. So there's very limited capacity for moving around.”

Jneanne Hacker, executive director of Housing and Residence Life, said OU usually wants around 100 “swing spaces” to complete room changes.

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2022/09/ou-on-campu...
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rpbobcat
9/13/2022 1:42 PM
Campus Flow wrote:expand_more



The Post article talks about the number of dorms demolished recently as well as
GAM undergoing renovations.

That takes a big bite out of your available housing.
Last Edited: 9/13/2022 1:42:38 PM by rpbobcat
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BillyTheCat
9/13/2022 2:03 PM
Campus Flow wrote:expand_more
I guess the universities pandemic panic projections of smaller enrollments didn't play out the way they intended. Record freshman class size and GPA. Also almost a quarter (23%) in the top 10% of their HS class a metric President Glidden said was indicative of a top tier public university.

In total, the Athens Campus welcomed the largest ever freshman class at 4,441 incoming first-year students, a 21 percent increase from 2021. The class includes the highest number of Ohio residents on record at 3,908, as well as 679 children of OHIO alumni and more than 1,100 students who will be the first in their family to earn a college degree.

https://www.ohio.edu/news/2022/09/ohio-brings-record-sett...
Over the summer, Ohio University gave select students who were supposed to live in on-campus residence halls the option to relocate to apartments in River Park Towers due to the enrollment size of its freshman class.

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2022/09/ohio-univer...
River Park apartments contracted out to handle the overflow.
You do realize that the University is down over 1200 beds since 2016.
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TWT
9/13/2022 6:11 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
I guess the universities pandemic panic projections of smaller enrollments didn't play out the way they intended. Record freshman class size and GPA. Also almost a quarter (23%) in the top 10% of their HS class a metric President Glidden said was indicative of a top tier public university.

In total, the Athens Campus welcomed the largest ever freshman class at 4,441 incoming first-year students, a 21 percent increase from 2021. The class includes the highest number of Ohio residents on record at 3,908, as well as 679 children of OHIO alumni and more than 1,100 students who will be the first in their family to earn a college degree.

https://www.ohio.edu/news/2022/09/ohio-brings-record-sett...
Over the summer, Ohio University gave select students who were supposed to live in on-campus residence halls the option to relocate to apartments in River Park Towers due to the enrollment size of its freshman class.

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2022/09/ohio-univer...
River Park apartments contracted out to handle the overflow.
You do realize that the University is down over 1200 beds since 2016.
I do and so I guess the admission strategy is to accept anyone who wants in and use River Park for overflow housing. With a long term goal of keeping campus housing at 7,500 students what happens next year if the freshman class is 4,500?
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TWT
9/13/2022 6:27 PM
3,900 in-state freshman at OU this year, only 2,000 less than Ohio State. I was checking around to see where those numbers came from and none of the other in-state universities put out a press release aside from UC which also had a record class on the books.

Looking into OSU's numbers they've had a decline in scores after peaking right before the pandemic. Believe it or not they've had a marked rise in students in the 18-23 and even the 12-17 ACT bracket where a full 1,000 admits sit. UC and OU appear to be gaining at the expense of OSU.

18-23 ACT
2018 5.7%
2019 7.3%
2020 8.3%
2021 11.8%

12-17 ACT
2018 0.5%
2019 0.6%
2020 0.6%
2021 1.2%

https://oesar.osu.edu/pdf/admissions/OSU_NewFreshmenProfi...
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Deciduous Forest Cat
9/14/2022 10:20 AM
Campus Flow wrote:expand_more
3,900 in-state freshman at OU this year, only 2,000 less than Ohio State. I was checking around to see where those numbers came from and none of the other in-state universities put out a press release aside from UC which also had a record class on the books.

Looking into OSU's numbers they've had a decline in scores after peaking right before the pandemic. Believe it or not they've had a marked rise in students in the 18-23 and even the 12-17 ACT bracket where a full 1,000 admits sit. UC and OU appear to be gaining at the expense of OSU.

18-23 ACT
2018 5.7%
2019 7.3%
2020 8.3%
2021 11.8%

12-17 ACT
2018 0.5%
2019 0.6%
2020 0.6%
2021 1.2%

https://oesar.osu.edu/pdf/admissions/OSU_NewFreshmenProfi...
Isn't there (supposed to be) a de-emphasis on these standardized test scores and greater focus on grades?
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BillyTheCat
9/14/2022 12:14 PM
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
3,900 in-state freshman at OU this year, only 2,000 less than Ohio State. I was checking around to see where those numbers came from and none of the other in-state universities put out a press release aside from UC which also had a record class on the books.

Looking into OSU's numbers they've had a decline in scores after peaking right before the pandemic. Believe it or not they've had a marked rise in students in the 18-23 and even the 12-17 ACT bracket where a full 1,000 admits sit. UC and OU appear to be gaining at the expense of OSU.

18-23 ACT
2018 5.7%
2019 7.3%
2020 8.3%
2021 11.8%

12-17 ACT
2018 0.5%
2019 0.6%
2020 0.6%
2021 1.2%

https://oesar.osu.edu/pdf/admissions/OSU_NewFreshmenProfi...
Isn't there (supposed to be) a de-emphasis on these standardized test scores and greater focus on grades?
You think that grades were inflated before, Covid post grades are grossly over inflated. As for test scores, like anything, if downplaying their importance makes you look/feel better you downplay them. If they benefit you, you use them.
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Alan Swank
9/14/2022 9:01 PM
We're still down 4000 undergraduate students in Athens from a high of 18K+ in 2016. Enrollments are up everywhere due to many students taking the 21 - 22 off due to 20 -21 being virtual in som many places.
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TWT
9/15/2022 7:20 AM
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
3,900 in-state freshman at OU this year, only 2,000 less than Ohio State. I was checking around to see where those numbers came from and none of the other in-state universities put out a press release aside from UC which also had a record class on the books.

Looking into OSU's numbers they've had a decline in scores after peaking right before the pandemic. Believe it or not they've had a marked rise in students in the 18-23 and even the 12-17 ACT bracket where a full 1,000 admits sit. UC and OU appear to be gaining at the expense of OSU.

18-23 ACT
2018 5.7%
2019 7.3%
2020 8.3%
2021 11.8%

12-17 ACT
2018 0.5%
2019 0.6%
2020 0.6%
2021 1.2%

https://oesar.osu.edu/pdf/admissions/OSU_NewFreshmenProfi...
Isn't there (supposed to be) a de-emphasis on these standardized test scores and greater focus on grades?
GPA is also backsliding at OSU. Based on the data I've seen UC likely won the title of highest GPA for in-state freshman class at 3.8. OU is close to 3.7 and OSU is closer to 3.6. This is what I was saying a few years ago that eventually there was going to be an equilibrium between these universities because Ohio State was already up as high as what it could go, particularly when they expanded their freshman class to 8,000 students.
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TWT
9/15/2022 7:25 AM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
We're still down 4000 undergraduate students in Athens from a high of 18K+ in 2016. Enrollments are up everywhere due to many students taking the 21 - 22 off due to 20 -21 being virtual in som many places.
Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with smaller enrollment but the university administration is still shell shocked from the fall of 2020 and the projection of Athens campus undergraduate enrollment of 12,500 by 2025. They are now projecting enrollment of closer to 16,600 by 2025.
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Jeff McKinney
9/15/2022 10:46 AM
As some of you have noted, GPAs are so inflated that they aren't a legitimate metric for quality of incoming classes any more.
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TWT
9/15/2022 6:14 PM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
As some of you have noted, GPAs are so inflated that they aren't a legitimate metric for quality of incoming classes any more.
That opinion is centered on the 5 point scale A for IB and AP classes. For then an Ivy League college can easily have a freshman class average over a 4.0 scale. Grade inflation is much more a factor for the most selective schools.
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Mike Johnson
9/15/2022 9:24 PM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2022/09/ou-on-campu...



The Post article talks about the number of dorms demolished recently as well as
GAM undergoing renovations.

That takes a big bite out of your available housing.
I lived in GAM as a generation later so did my son Ben. During my years there it was a happening place to be.

Wonder what renovation will do to the interior.
Last Edited: 9/15/2022 9:24:39 PM by Mike Johnson
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OhioCatFan
9/15/2022 9:40 PM
Oh Scott Quad where are you now?
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Mike Johnson
9/15/2022 9:55 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Oh Scott Quad where are you now?
Strategic planning. Its essence boils down to thinking comprehensively and long term. How much of that do we see our alma mater leaders doing?
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
9/15/2022 10:34 PM
If I recall, you all wanted to make Scott Quad an Ohio University history museum, no?

What do you think is more cost effective for the University? A renovation and demolding of Scott Quad, or temporarily renting out extra space for overflow?

If you were running a university right now -- higher Ed being what it is -- would you choose fixed costs over flexible costs? It sounds like it. Why?
Last Edited: 9/15/2022 10:38:16 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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OhioCatFan
9/15/2022 11:20 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
If I recall, you all wanted to make Scott Quad an Ohio University history museum, no?

What do you think is more cost effective for the University? A renovation and demolding of Scott Quad, or temporarily renting out extra space for overflow?

If you were running a university right now -- higher Ed being what it is -- would you choose fixed costs over flexible costs? It sounds like it. Why?
I never suggested turning it into a museum. I suggested mothballing it until it might be needed in the future. I also said that not too long ago one wing had been used as office space for the university public affairs office. I said that it could have been repurposed, and that in Europe they never would have torn down a building of this age that was that well built. You thought all of those ideas were stupid and showed a lack of understanding of modern financing and sound fiscal management.

I have no idea what your mumbo jumbo about “fixed costs” vs. “flexible costs” means. I just know that the University is very short-sighted in its decision making and has torn down many buildings over the last 50 years that it shouldn’t have and that could still serve useful purposes today. I know that I put a much greater value than you do on the role that historic buildings and an aesthetic physical plant play in helping people feel rooted and giving them a sense of place. At the rate we are going, we may very well destroy our historic campus with many older buildings that give it a sense of character and continuity and turn the place into something akin to Bowling Green, probably the ugliest most dysfunctional campus in the state.
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OhioCatFan
9/15/2022 11:20 PM
Mike Johnson wrote:expand_more
Oh Scott Quad where are you now?
Strategic planning. Its essence boils down to thinking comprehensively and long term. How much of that do we see our alma mater leaders doing?
Not much is my answer.
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rpbobcat
9/16/2022 6:42 AM
Mike Johnson wrote:expand_more
I lived in GAM as a generation later so did my son Ben. During my years there it was a happening place to be.

Wonder what renovation will do to the interior.
From what I've read new HVAC (no more window air conditioners),
new windows, renovated bathrooms.

Maybe they'll get rid of the fluorescent bulb in front of the mirror on the
bureau. :-)
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BillyTheCat
9/16/2022 8:18 AM
Campus Flow wrote:expand_more
As some of you have noted, GPAs are so inflated that they aren't a legitimate metric for quality of incoming classes any more.
That opinion is centered on the 5 point scale A for IB and AP classes. For then an Ivy League college can easily have a freshman class average over a 4.0 scale. Grade inflation is much more a factor for the most selective schools.
How about schools that have a 6.0 scale, which actually tops out at 6.4.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
9/16/2022 9:18 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
I never suggested turning it into a museum. I suggested mothballing it until it might be needed in the future. I also said that not too long ago one wing had been used as office space for the university public affairs office. I said that it could have been repurposed, and that in Europe they never would have torn down a building of this age that was that well built. You thought all of those ideas were stupid and showed a lack of understanding of modern financing and sound fiscal management. [/QUOTE]Please provide a quote in which I talked about modern financing and fiscal management. I'm truly not sure what you're talking about.

Our disagreement about Scott Quad was simple, little as you seem to understand it. I just don't think it was a particularly historic building worth preserving at all costs. As I said in that thread 8 times, it never felt to me like a building that was in the top 15 or so on campus.

I have no idea what your mumbo jumbo about “fixed costs” vs. “flexible costs” means.
This is pretty clear.

I just know that the University is very short-sighted in its decision making and has torn down many buildings over the last 50 years that it shouldn’t have and that could still serve useful purposes today.
The question about fixed/flexibile costs is a question about the short view vs. the long. We have more enrollees today then we expected, and thus need more beds. If you think that OU can maintain those enrollment levels, then a fixed cost -- i.e. mothballing Scott Quad, renovating, and utilizing as dorms -- makes sense. If you think the state of higher Ed makes it hard to project enrollment going forward and this might be a temporary spike, the current set up is a better financial one.

I know that I put a much greater value than you do on the role that historic buildings and an aesthetic physical plant play in helping people feel rooted and giving them a sense of place.


No, we just disagree about Scott Quad and whether it qualifies as historic.

[QUOTE=OhioCatFan]
At the rate we are going, we may very well destroy our historic campus with many older buildings that give it a sense of character and continuity and turn the place into something akin to Bowling Green, probably the ugliest most dysfunctional campus in the state.
I think this is a completely irrational fear.

I encourage you to go back to the conversation about Scott Quad, because you're putting words in my mouth. Often, you seem to assume that if someone disagrees with you, it means they believe the opposite of what you believe. That's simply not the case here. You think we're having a macro disagreement about historic buildings. I just think Scott Quad was a brick box from the 50s and that people are confusing sentimentality with history.
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TWT
9/16/2022 9:37 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
As some of you have noted, GPAs are so inflated that they aren't a legitimate metric for quality of incoming classes any more.
That opinion is centered on the 5 point scale A for IB and AP classes. For then an Ivy League college can easily have a freshman class average over a 4.0 scale. Grade inflation is much more a factor for the most selective schools.
How about schools that have a 6.0 scale, which actually tops out at 6.4.
Can you provide proof that any high school in Ohio is running a 6.4 scale?
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BillyTheCat
9/16/2022 10:18 AM
Campus Flow wrote:expand_more
As some of you have noted, GPAs are so inflated that they aren't a legitimate metric for quality of incoming classes any more.
That opinion is centered on the 5 point scale A for IB and AP classes. For then an Ivy League college can easily have a freshman class average over a 4.0 scale. Grade inflation is much more a factor for the most selective schools.
How about schools that have a 6.0 scale, which actually tops out at 6.4.
Can you provide proof that any high school in Ohio is running a 6.4 scale?
Sure: Page 24 in the student handbook.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-re1NeyJHcIXwc1SCin1o...
Last Edited: 9/16/2022 10:19:58 AM by BillyTheCat
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Mike Johnson
9/16/2022 10:48 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
If I recall, you all wanted to make Scott Quad an Ohio University history museum, no?

What do you think is more cost effective for the University? A renovation and demolding of Scott Quad, or temporarily renting out extra space for overflow?

If you were running a university right now -- higher Ed being what it is -- would you choose fixed costs over flexible costs? It sounds like it. Why?
Sort of but not exactly. What I proposed, using the resurrection of Old Town Warsaw after WWII as a template, was razing all of Scott Quad except the facade with its portal to the courtyard. Then use at least some of the rubble in building an OU history museum. It wouldn't be as large as Scott but large enough to display OU's impressive collection of memorabilia. I saw - would see - the museum as a magnet for visiting alums and prospective students and their parents.
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