For the record, I got the Pfizer vaccinations in April/May and Booster in November.
From the US National Library of Medicine/National Institutes of Health:
The underlying cause of cancer is thought to be damage to DNA, much of which is oxidative in nature. These oxidative processes, the mechanisms of which not fully understood, occur during the promotional stage of carcinogenesis. Therefore, it is plausible that antioxidants may be able to interfere with the metabolic activation of chemical carcinogens, cause regression of pre-malignant lesions or inhibit their development into cancer.
---------------------------------------------
PLUS: Last medically reviewed on October 11, 2020
Scientific research suggests that supplementing with vitamin D may protect against respiratory infections, especially among those who are deficient in the vitamin.
Recent research indicates that sufficient vitamin D levels may help people with COVID-19 avoid adverse outcomes.
---------------------------------------------
From a variety of respected medical websites:
Because COVID-19 comes with cold and flu-like symptoms, Vitamins B, C and D, as well as zinc may be helpful in boosting your immune system and fighting the illness in the same way they can help you get over a cold or flu.
Vitamin C
Generally, vitamin C can help you fight a cold faster or ease your cold symptoms if you were taking it prior to getting sick. As an antioxidant, vitamin C can help reduce inflammation—and lung inflammation is a severe symptom of COVID-19, which can lead to respiratory distress or even death. So if you’re still healthy, it doesn’t hurt to start taking vitamin C now.
Popping a zinc throat lozenge, or taking an over-the-counter cold remedy with zinc in it (as a syrup or tablet) helps shorten the length of rhinovirus colds. Zinc also helps symptoms—nasal congestion, nasal drainage, sore throat, and cough—resolve sooner.
Zinc has also been found to help produce and activate T-cells (t-lymphocytes), which trigger the body to respond to infections, according to the NIH. Full of antiviral and anti-inflammatory properties, elderberry syrup is used as a remedy for colds, flus, and bacterial sinus infections. Elderberry works by reducing swelling in the mucus membranes.
Some studies suggest elderberry extract reduces the duration of the flu, which is why some believe it may also help your immune system against coronavirus (COVID-19) infection.
Echinacea has been used to treat colds symptoms upon first signs of illness, but the research on its effectiveness varies. Some research shows that taking echinacea can reduce the risk of catching a cold by 45% to 58%.
Ginseng is a root with potent antioxidant effects that contributes to reduced inflammation, supported immunity, and other health benefits. Multiple studies have shown ginseng’s positive effects on the common cold and respiratory tract infections. In a systematic review looking at multitude studies, researchers concluded that ginseng extract reduced the duration of the common cold. The same results were replicated in a double-blind randomized control trial where subjects were given ginseng extract over a period of four months. Of particular relevance, ginseng reduced the risk and duration of respiratory symptoms in an elderly population by 48 and 55%, respectively. Takeaway: Ginseng could be especially helpful for the elderly. It's most effective when taken within a two-hour window of a meal. Aim for 2,000mg of ginseng extract daily.
[/QUOTE]So much to unpack here. With it being Christmas time, my interest in arguing with you is rapidly fading, so I’ll get through as much as I can before the interest is completely gone.
I
Above, you cite vitamin B, vitamin C, and vitamin D, zinc, elderberry extract, echinacea, and ginseng root. The nutritional supplement you advocated using on the other thread—and implied here that only “Qanon death cult of anti-science” persons would question taking (
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0260/4747/9880/products... ; “Zand Immunity Echinacea Zinc”) does not contain vitamin B, C, or D, doesn’t contain elderberry extract, and doesn’t contain ginseng root (all according to the product packaging found on the manufacturer’s website,
https://www.zandimmunity.com/collections/lozenges/product... ). It is listed as containing 5 mg zinc/lozenge. It also says that it contains 66 mg of the following allegedly active ingredients (but does not specify how much each ingredient is present): echinacea, extracts of hibiscus flower, orange peel, lemon peel, rose hips, lemongrass, perilla leaf, and schizonepeta herb.
Since the Zand Immunity Echinacea Zinc supplements do not contain vitamin B, vitamin C, vitamin D, elderberry extract, or ginseng root, I’m not going to be discussing them any further. I’m also not going to be discussing antioxidants and their role in cancer or DNA damage more generally, as that isn’t germane to a discussion of nutritional supplements and COVID-19. Please note that these are all extremely back of the envelop calculations and based on pretty cursory research. (If you’d like more detail, a more in-depth analysis, contact me and we’ll discuss an hourly consulting fee.) In no particular order:
a) Schizonepeta herb – this appears to be an herb used in traditional Chinese medicine. A paper by Kang et al. (PMID 18549677) reported that orally dosing mice with Schizonepeta herb extract at 200 mg/kg/day (a dose that the authors note is relevant to the to the therapeutic oral dose of this compound) appeared to reduce Th1 skewing in favor of Th2 skewing in an in vivo model. Please note that a dose of 200 mg/kg/day would work out to something like 13.5 GRAMS per day in a 150 pound (68 kg) person. The Zand Immunity lozenges referenced above contain something (substantially) less than 66 mg/lozenge, so if the entire herbal component of these lozenges were schizonepeta herb extract, you would need to take >200 lozenges PER DAY to achieve biologically relevant concentrations.
A paper by Geng et al (Fitoterapia Volume 82, Issue 7, October 2011, Pages 1110-1117) suggests that Schizonepeta herb extract is pretty much cleared from one’s system 24 hours after administration (in rats), though taking the lozenge as recommended you might get some steady LOW LOW LOW level of the compound in your system.
Conclusion: Even if this compound could have beneficial activity preventing or resolving a COVID infection, I’m extremely skeptical that you would receive a biologically meaningful quantity of it from the aforementioned supplement.
b) Perilla leaf – appears to be a mint relative used in various traditional medicines. I found a few papers looking at this as a component of traditional Chinese medicine preparations, but specific in vivo tested observations were few and far between. Several sources noted that there isn’t sufficient information to inform doses required to achieve biological effects in vivo. Likewise, information on oral bioavailability and clearance was lacking.
Conclusion: I suspect this was included primarily for flavor or as a soothing cough drop type agent. Conclusion: Even if this compound could have beneficial activity preventing or resolving a COVID infection, I’m extremely skeptical that you would receive a biologically meaningful quantity of it from the aforementioned supplement.
c) Lemongrass – Food, also appears to be a component of various traditional medicines. Reported antioxidant and anti-inflammatory activity. Again, very scant information on what effective dosing would be for this. This is complicated by the lack of a single active agent in lemongrass extract, but this paper (PMID 24799081) suggests an effective in vitro dose on the order of 3.2 ug/mL. Translating that directly to an effective in vivo dose is complicated by a lot of factors, so I’m going to say it is minimum 10-fold higher. That works out to about 30 ug/mL. It’s not the cleanest conversion, but for our purposes here we can consider 30 ug/ml to be equivalent to 30 ug/g, or 30 mg/kg. Another paper (SOJ Pharm Pharm Sci 4(3):1-9.DOI:
http://dx.doi.org/10.15226/2374-6866/4/3/00160 ) suggests that that might be achievable with an oral dose of ~68 mg/kg (depending on which of the many potential active ingredients we’re talking about), but these also tended to be rapidly cleared. Thus, the actual dose requirements could be significantly higher.
Conclusion: So, same as with the Schizonepeta herb, you might need to take grams/day of this to achieve biologically relevant concentrations. I suspect this was included primarily for flavor or for soothing cough drop type activities. Conclusion: Even if this compound could have beneficial activity preventing or resolving a COVID infection, I’m extremely skeptical that you would receive a biologically meaningful quantity of it from the aforementioned supplement.
d) Orange peel and lemon peel—[Interest in this exercise rapidly fading]....what I’m seeing suggests that biological effects would require, again, many many times the dosage you’d get from the above mentioned nutritional supplement. Probably included for taste, but if included to for “immune support”, unlikely to be present in anything approaching a sufficient dose
e) Zinc – Finally, an easy one. Quoting from the US NIH’s COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines, “The Panel recommends against using zinc supplementation above the recommended dietary allowance for the prevention of COVID-19, except in a clinical trial” (
https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/... /). At 5 mg/lozenge, this one might put you into the measurable (possibly even biologically meaningful) range.
f) Echinacea--
https://www.rxlist.com/echinacea/supplements.htm suggests a daily dose of 2400 – 4000 mg/day for prevention of the common cold. That is, clearly, FAR in excess of what would be found lozenges containing 66 mg of various herbs of which echinacea is only a subset (the packaging of these nutritional supplements tell users not to exceed 6 lozenges in 24 hours).
g) Hibiscus flower and Rose hips: I’ve definitely run out of steam and interest at this point, so just color me skeptical.
II
Stepping away from the more detailed scientific analysis, I’d like to direct your attention to a couple of statements on the product packaging.
a) First, their mission statement: “We believe health should be rooted in nature, not the laboratory.” [But questioning the efficacy of this product gets you labeled as anti-science?!]. “Guided by an herb-first ethos….” [an herb first ethos is fine for cooking, but I question its value in medical decisions, science, or immune modulation]
b) (Emphasis mine) “THESE STATEMENTS HAVE NOT BEEN EVALUATED BY THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION. THIS PRODUCT IS NOT INTENDED TO DIAGNOSE, TREAT, CURE, OR PREVENT ANY DISEASE.”
c) Dosing: you’re taking 6 of these per day? They honestly sound more like cough drops with aggressive marketing than they do something that is going to boost your immune system which…looking at the packaging, other than the brand name (Zand Immunity) it makes no claims of having immune boosting activity. The mission statement said they wanted to create a “line of immunity supplements”, but the packaging itself isn’t claiming to boost immune function. So score one for their lawyers I guess
III
Now, if you go to their website, you’ll find the comforting statement “Backed by Science; our team of scientists and nutrition experts are always watching the latest clinical trials to create formulas that are precise, potent[,] and effective”. Which I read to mean they don’t conduct any clinical trials of their own.
To be fair, under the heading “Lab verified” you’ll find the statement “Quality matters. Our lab is ISO accredited and our facilities follow GMP (Good Manufacturing Practices) so ensure precision and consistency.” Which I read to mean that their product gets sent to a lab for purity/QC testing, NOT that it has been tested in patients (or animal models) in a rigorous
IV
I’ve spent at least 30 minutes looking through the manufacturer's website, and I haven’t been able to find any citations to back up the explicit or implicit claims made about the ingredients in this “immunity” product. (though I do see several uses of the phrase “Statements regarding dietary supplements have not been evaluated by the FDA and are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease or health condition” in big bold letters). (A page discussing one of the ingredients in one of their other products does link out to clinical studies conducted by a different manufacturer, but that isn’t relevant to this discussion).
V
As to claims made about the highlighted ingredients in the “Zand Immunity Echinacea Zinc” lozenges, I find them less than convincing but I’ll let you judge for yourself (based on how much trust you place in herbalism, naturopathy, homeopathy, astrology, etc.). (
https://www.zandimmunity.com/collections/lozenges/product... )
VI
In general, I would rate the Zand Immunity website as being light on real science but big on words like “natural”, “wellbeing”, and a surprising blurb that might have been written by the Utah tourism office (
https://www.zandimmunity.com/pages/faq ).
VII
A lot of emphasis is placed on their products being “made with care from original formulations by Zand founder, Dr. Janet Zand”, but I can’t find any reference as to Dr. Zand’s credentials, expertise, experience, etc. on their website. Through the wonders of Google, I have found a Dr. Janet Zand, who may be the same person. I’ll not comment on her qualifications but—speaking for myself—I wouldn’t engage her services or those of any similar practitioner.
[QUOTE=greencat] Instead of fox "news" I prefer to get medical info from sources like Mayo Clinic and Johns Hopkins.