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General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events Topic
Topic: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
12/7/2021 10:44 AM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
Do you know where exactly ?

Given the lyrics, I would think women's organizations would be condemning this
all over the internet and on cable news.
But I haven't seen it.
Given which lyrics? Do you have specific examples that you think warrant frequent coverage on cable news right now?

In the last two weeks, there have been congressional hearings on this, for instance. There were also congressional hearings in 2007.

Over the years, there are dozens if not hundreds of artists who have dealt with blowback over lyrics. Eminem, for instance, had a song about murdering his wife back in the day and more recently there was a push about some lyric on a song with Rihanna: https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/08/entertainment/eminem-new-s... . I don't know the details because it's not a subject I care a ton about. There were protests against Nelly. It's a pretty common thing.

Recently though, the focus of the conversation on rap lyrics has been as it relates to the admissibility in criminal proceedings. For instance, a Pittsburgh rapper was charged with terroristic threats for lyrics in a song about Pittsburgh police; the Harvard Law Review and New York Law Journal weighed in (here: https://ambrosiaforheads.com/2019/04/rapper-convicted-for... / and here: https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2021/06/30/putting-... ). So did the New Yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-contro... and others.
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greencat
12/7/2021 11:10 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Do you know where exactly ?

Given the lyrics, I would think women's organizations would be condemning this
all over the internet and on cable news.
But I haven't seen it.
Given which lyrics? Do you have specific examples that you think warrant frequent coverage on cable news right now?

In the last two weeks, there have been congressional hearings on this, for instance. There were also congressional hearings in 2007.

Over the years, there are dozens if not hundreds of artists who have dealt with blowback over lyrics. Eminem, for instance, had a song about murdering his wife back in the day and more recently there was a push about some lyric on a song with Rihanna: https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/08/entertainment/eminem-new-s... . I don't know the details because it's not a subject I care a ton about. There were protests against Nelly. It's a pretty common thing.

Recently though, the focus of the conversation on rap lyrics has been as it relates to the admissibility in criminal proceedings. For instance, a Pittsburgh rapper was charged with terroristic threats for lyrics in a song about Pittsburgh police; the Harvard Law Review and New York Law Journal weighed in (here: https://ambrosiaforheads.com/2019/04/rapper-convicted-for... / and here: https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2021/06/30/putting-... ). So did the New Yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-contro... and others.
People have been appalled at hardcore rap lyrics for a long time.

In the early ’90s, politician and civil rights activist C. Delores Tucker was one of the staunchest opponents of gangster rap, boycotting various rap artists and albums, and going as far as buying stock in companies to chastise executives at their shareholders’ meetings. LINK:
https://www.okayplayer.com/music/controversial-rap-lyrics...

"Music" that is violently anti-female plus anti-semitic, pro-gang, anti-asian, homophobic, pro-crime, pro-school shootings, pro-drug abuse, trivialize suicide, and the list goes on and on... everybody who defends that crap must be terribly proud today.
Last Edited: 12/7/2021 11:10:48 AM by greencat
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
12/7/2021 11:13 AM
greencat wrote:expand_more
Do you know where exactly ?

Given the lyrics, I would think women's organizations would be condemning this
all over the internet and on cable news.
But I haven't seen it.
Given which lyrics? Do you have specific examples that you think warrant frequent coverage on cable news right now?

In the last two weeks, there have been congressional hearings on this, for instance. There were also congressional hearings in 2007.

Over the years, there are dozens if not hundreds of artists who have dealt with blowback over lyrics. Eminem, for instance, had a song about murdering his wife back in the day and more recently there was a push about some lyric on a song with Rihanna: https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/08/entertainment/eminem-new-s... . I don't know the details because it's not a subject I care a ton about. There were protests against Nelly. It's a pretty common thing.

Recently though, the focus of the conversation on rap lyrics has been as it relates to the admissibility in criminal proceedings. For instance, a Pittsburgh rapper was charged with terroristic threats for lyrics in a song about Pittsburgh police; the Harvard Law Review and New York Law Journal weighed in (here: https://ambrosiaforheads.com/2019/04/rapper-convicted-for... / and here: https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2021/06/30/putting-... ). So did the New Yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-contro... and others.
People have been appalled at hardcore rap lyrics for a long time.

In the early ’90s, politician and civil rights activist C. Delores Tucker was one of the staunchest opponents of gangster rap, boycotting various rap artists and albums, and going as far as buying stock in companies to chastise executives at their shareholders’ meetings. LINK:
https://www.okayplayer.com/music/controversial-rap-lyrics...

"Music" that is violently anti-female plus anti-semitic, pro-gang, anti-asian, homophobic, pro-crime, pro-school shootings, pro-drug abuse, trivialize suicide, and the list goes on and on... everybody who defends that crap must be terribly proud today.
I, personally, find plenty of it objectionable and don't listen to a ton of rap or anything else that's anti-female, anti-semitic, pro-gang, etc.

But I also like the First Amendment so in the end I accept that it has a right to exist and go on with my life.
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rpbobcat
12/7/2021 11:33 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Given which lyrics? Do you have specific examples that you think warrant frequent coverage on cable news right now?

In the last two weeks, there have been congressional hearings on this, for instance. There were also congressional hearings in 2007.

Over the years, there are dozens if not hundreds of artists who have dealt with blowback over lyrics. Eminem, for instance, had a song about murdering his wife back in the day and more recently there was a push about some lyric on a song with Rihanna: https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/08/entertainment/eminem-new-s... . I don't know the details because it's not a subject I care a ton about. There were protests against Nelly. It's a pretty common thing.

Recently though, the focus of the conversation on rap lyrics has been as it relates to the admissibility in criminal proceedings. For instance, a Pittsburgh rapper was charged with terroristic threats for lyrics in a song about Pittsburgh police; the Harvard Law Review and New York Law Journal weighed in (here: https://ambrosiaforheads.com/2019/04/rapper-convicted-for... / and here: https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2021/06/30/putting-... ). So did the New Yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-contro... and others.

First off, I don't recall ever saying "frequent".

I'm just surprised there isn't more outrage by women's organizations with rappers demeaning women.

Yesterday, at Gold's ,there was a song ,where every other line was "________ the bitch".

I would think that would be upsetting to any woman.

Actually, the woman using the treadmill next to me did get upset and went to the desk to ask them to change the station.

Were the Congressional hearings you mentioned dealing with rap music ?

I tried to google it, but couldn't find anything recent on rap music.

I'd really appreciate it if you could post a link to them.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
12/7/2021 11:57 AM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
First off, I don't recall ever saying "frequent". [/QUOTE]Sorry, I implied frequent from your saying it should be "all over the internet and on cable news."

I'm just surprised there isn't more outrage by women's organizations with rappers demeaning women.

Yesterday, at Gold's ,there was a song ,where every other line was "________ the bitch".

I would think that would be upsetting to any woman.
I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect it to be upsetting to any woman. I suspect different women interpret the intent differently. There's a line of thinking that as a genre rap music deals in hyperbole and exaggeration, and suspect plenty of people buy that as an argument.

I also think there's the pertinent question of what can actually be done about it.

[QUOTE=rpbobcat]
Were the Congressional hearings you mentioned dealing with rap music ?

I tried to google it, but couldn't find anything recent on rap music.

I'd really appreciate it if you could post a link to them.
Sorry about that, I think the link was dated incorrectly. It showed up in Google News as a 15 day old link, but was actually in reference to something from 2007. My bad.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3650628&page=1
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greencat
12/8/2021 2:20 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I, personally, find plenty of it objectionable and don't listen to a ton of rap or anything else that's anti-female, anti-semitic, pro-gang, etc.
GET OFF MY LAWN!! What are you, like 150 years old or something??

(just kidding, it seemed like a good time to ridicule some of the rap-bots who posted ignorant crap like insinuating that the lyrics of Neil Peart and Donald Fagen are the faves of criminals and gangs etc have no interest in gangsta rap)
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JSF
12/9/2021 11:02 PM
I, too, enjoy a good strawman.
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greencat
12/9/2021 11:10 PM
greencat wrote:expand_more
Young Dolph, a high-profile Memphis rapper, was killed in a shooting Wednesday while inside a cookie bakery on Airways Boulevard, Memphis police said.

previously involving this one rapper:

In February of 2017, in Charlotte, North Carolina, a suspect fired more than 100 rounds at a heavily armored SUV that Thornton would later credit with saving his life.

and

Later in 2017, Thornton was critically injured after a suspect shot him multiple times outside of a Hollywood hotel in Los Angeles.

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/news/2021/11/17/yo... /
>>>> UPDATE <<<<

Compton rapper Slim 400 was fatally shot in California on Wednesday evening, police confirmed to ABC News. He was 33.

The shooting occurred hours after the hip-hop artist shared a tribute on Instagram to fellow rapper and collaborator Young Dolph, who was shot and killed last month while visiting a bakery in his hometown of Memphis, Tennessee.

https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/compton-rapper-slim-...

---------------------------------------------------

**** UPDATE TO THE UPDATE ****

The fatal shooting of rapper Slim 400 (shot close range 8 times) is being investigated as “gang-related retaliation,” with the Inglewood Police Department bracing for a turf war. (they think the shooting was gang-related — which almost always means revenge... really? Nice detective work, Sherlocks)

Slim 400 had previously narrowly escaped death when he was “ambushed” and shot nine times while visiting his family in Compton in the summer of 2019. Slim revealed that one of his family members risked their own life to save him by dragging him indoors to safety amid a hail of drive-by bullets.

BUT-BUT-BUT.... it's no different than the Beatles on Ed Sullivan.

Some of Slim 400's Lennon/McCartney-ish lyrics:

Got my hand on the trigger (my hand on my guap)
If I put everything in, could you see the bigger picture?
And I won't never run my mouth, I show love to all my n-ggas
I do Percocets and Xan, and I mix drugs with my liquor
If you can twerk, go back and back for every one of you b-tches
I used to lurk for every bag on every one of 'em missions
Lil' b-tch, come get your issue
Last Edited: 12/11/2021 12:27:06 PM by greencat
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JSF
12/12/2021 4:44 PM
Do you need us for this, or are you happy to keep arguing against yourself?
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greencat
12/12/2021 6:26 PM
You can keep bumping this thread for people to keep up with gangsta rappers murdering each other. At least until the next season of Call Saul drops.

I already know one plot twist that was leaked. It involves the "Sandpiper Crossing" case. But that is all I will say about it.
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Cellis033
12/12/2021 9:26 PM
I still listen to rap as an OU student but mostly 80's rap (Notorious B.I.G and Beastie Boys in particular)
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cc-cat
12/13/2021 2:02 PM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
Being a Democrat doesn't mean anything. Jesse Helms was a lifelong Democrat.
Not so. He was a Republican from 1970 to 2008.
Just to clear it up for everyone, He was a lifelong conservative racist ass that aligned with which ever party most reflected his conservative racist views.
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greencat
12/13/2021 5:42 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
Being a Democrat doesn't mean anything. Jesse Helms was a lifelong Democrat.
Not so. He was a Republican from 1970 to 2008.
Just to clear it up for everyone, He was a lifelong conservative racist ass that aligned with which ever party most reflected his conservative racist views.
And as CLEARLY pointed out, recognizing gangsta rap as toxic rubbish certainly does not make a person racist. Unless civil rights activist C. Delores Tucker was (cough-cough) "a racist."

Cynthia Delores Tucker (née Nottage; October 4, 1927 – October 12, 2005) was an American politician and civil rights activist. She had a long history of involvement in the American Civil Rights Movement. From the 1990s onward, she engaged in a campaign against gangsta rap music.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._Delores_Tucker
Last Edited: 12/13/2021 5:44:53 PM by greencat
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cc-cat
12/13/2021 5:53 PM
greencat wrote:expand_more
And as CLEARLY pointed out, recognizing gangsta rap as toxic rubbish certainly does not make a person racist. Unless civil rights activist C. Delores Tucker was (cough-cough) "a racist."
I didn't realize "Asshole Jesse" felt gangsta rap was toxic rubbish (though anything that was perceived as African American - he felt was rubbish) - seeing as that is who I was taking about. Did you think I was making reference to someone / anyone else?
Last Edited: 12/13/2021 5:54:52 PM by cc-cat
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greencat
12/13/2021 6:17 PM
Actually it was part of a larger picture. He probably didn't even know what hardcore rap was in his old senile age. However, there are rap defenders who will imply that anybody willing to call out hardcore rap as the vile detestable garbage it undeniably is, must be either 150 years old, racist, or some kind of 5hit-kicking country music/nascar fan yokel not "cool enough" to understand what the "poetic" gangsta rap "lyrics" mean.

Waiting on the next "GET OFF MY LAWN...yuk-yuk-yuk!!!" passive/aggressive weak {sort-of} rap defense without bothering to attempt a defense of it.

Yes, Helms was a (R) for his final 38 years... that explains the a-hole thing.
Last Edited: 12/13/2021 6:19:25 PM by greencat
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cc-cat
12/13/2021 9:06 PM
Actually I don't give a rip what you or anyone else listens to as long as I don't have to listen to it - put the headphones on and enjoy (rap, classical, country, punk, etc). To each their own - since music has never driven a sane person to do anything - I could care less. As I drive through Helm's hometown 3-4 times a week, I just wanted to make sure he was properly profiled.
Last Edited: 12/13/2021 9:07:41 PM by cc-cat
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greencat
12/14/2021 2:03 AM
1) Helms has certainly been profiled as an a-hole bigot which he was.

2) Not certain how "sane" crackpipe hitting gang bangers are but they seem to love drive-by shootouts and the like. The problem with gangster rappers having shootouts in parking lots and on street corners is that innocent bystanders could (and often do) get killed. Ever seen teddy bears nailed up on telephone poles in the bad part of Memphis? Pretty sure the shooters who killed the innocent little kids didn't have Bach or Beethoven on their headphones. Gangsta rap is the soundtrack of violent thug life and the horror and misery that results from it.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
12/14/2021 7:52 AM
greencat wrote:expand_more
1) Helms has certainly been profiled as an a-hole bigot which he was.

2) Not certain how "sane" crackpipe hitting gang bangers are but they seem to love drive-by shootouts and the like. The problem with gangster rappers having shootouts in parking lots and on street corners is that innocent bystanders could (and often do) get killed. Ever seen teddy bears nailed up on telephone poles in the bad part of Memphis? Pretty sure the shooters who killed the innocent little kids didn't have Bach or Beethoven on their headphones. Gangsta rap is the soundtrack of violent thug life and the horror and misery that results from it.
Whether you like the music or not, or whether you can objectively say the message is bad, blaming the music is really outdated thinking. The music like the violence is a product of the environment. People sing about what they know. Besides, no rap song has ever been as offensive as most of today's pop country music.
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cc-cat
12/14/2021 9:57 AM
greencat wrote:expand_more
12) Not certain how "sane" crackpipe hitting gang bangers are but they seem to love drive-by shootouts and the like. The problem with gangster rappers having shootouts in parking lots and on street corners is that innocent bystanders could (and often do) get killed. Ever seen teddy bears nailed up on telephone poles in the bad part of Memphis? Pretty sure the shooters who killed the innocent little kids didn't have Bach or Beethoven on their headphones. Gangsta rap is the soundtrack of violent thug life and the horror and misery that results from it.
So you must also believe in gun control and those that listen to and or produce gangsta rap should not be sold a gun.... since they are predisposed to gun violence. Note: if you don't believe in gun control then you can't possibly believe in music control.
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greencat
12/14/2021 7:12 PM
I don't think "music control" should be legislated as already stated in this thread. People should voluntarily shun the gangsta "music" crap out of common sense and decency. Humans can go into Home Depot and buy rat poison and ingest it. But if they have a brain and feel like using it, they won't. But there is no law against the hardware store selling rat poison.

I have no problem with gun control laws except they should be stronger. Back in the day when I purchased a handgun, they took my thumbprints and ran a background check. Then after the waiting period that I did not complain about since I had nothing to hide... they called me and said it was OK to come pick it up. The people against gun control are usually either right wing nut-jobs (conspiracy theory wackos) or have something to hide. "Ghost guns" are a big problem right now and that is an issue that needs to be dealt with.
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cc-cat
12/14/2021 10:08 PM
We agree
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rpbobcat
12/15/2021 7:11 AM
greencat wrote:expand_more
I don't think "music control" should be legislated as already stated in this thread. People should voluntarily shun the gangsta "music" crap out of common sense and decency. Humans can go into Home Depot and buy rat poison and ingest it. But if they have a brain and feel like using it, they won't. But there is no law against the hardware store selling rat poison.

I have no problem with gun control laws except they should be stronger. Back in the day when I purchased a handgun, they took my thumbprints and ran a background check. Then after the waiting period that I did not complain about since I had nothing to hide... they called me and said it was OK to come pick it up. The people against gun control are usually either right wing nut-jobs (conspiracy theory wackos) or have something to hide. "Ghost guns" are a big problem right now and that is an issue that needs to be dealt with.
Going a bit O.T.:

The problem with gun control laws, NJ where I live has some of the toughest, is that criminals don't follow them.

In NJ its virtually impossible to get any kind of carry permit.

Doesn't stop the gun violence, especially in places like Paterson, Camden, Newark, Jersey City, to name a few.

Whenever there's a news story about a shooting, it involves illegal weapons.
The only rare exception is for domestic disputes.

A few years ago a guy was walking around Hackensack firing a fully automatic
AK-47.

In North Jersey you can a gun, pretty much any gun, on the street in less then a couple of hours.
Last Edited: 12/15/2021 7:14:47 AM by rpbobcat
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
12/15/2021 10:48 AM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
Going a bit O.T.:

The problem with gun control laws, NJ where I live has some of the toughest, is that criminals don't follow them.

In NJ its virtually impossible to get any kind of carry permit.

Doesn't stop the gun violence, especially in places like Paterson, Camden, Newark, Jersey City, to name a few.

Whenever there's a news story about a shooting, it involves illegal weapons.
The only rare exception is for domestic disputes.

A few years ago a guy was walking around Hackensack firing a fully automatic
AK-47.

In North Jersey you can a gun, pretty much any gun, on the street in less then a couple of hours.
To be more specific, the actual problem for New Jersey has nothing to do with their gun laws, but with the fact that easily accessible states have very lax gun laws.

An "illegal gun" in New Jersey is often a perfectly legal gun elsewhere; there's little done to control or monitor the secondary market, and as such there's a gigantic secondary market in which guns are purchased legally in states with lax gun laws, effectively laundered through a secondary market sale which takes them "off the grid" and then end up sold in places like New York, Newark, Chicago, etc. turning them into illegal guns.

In the Northeast, Virginia's historically been the starting point for guns used in crimes. In Chicago, it's right next door in Indiana.

The reason there are so many guns is because it's really, really easy to get them in a whole bunch of places. That New Jersey's gun laws are so easily skirted by crossing state lines isn't, in my mind, an argument against the effectiveness of New Jersey's laws, but rather an argument that more states should have similar laws if there's a real, serious desire to address gun violence in the US.
Last Edited: 12/15/2021 10:52:38 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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greencat
12/15/2021 11:51 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
..... if there's a real, serious desire to address gun violence in the US.
As if the death cult of right wing nut-jobs is going to support it?

With Boebert's and Taylor-Greene's and Ron Johnson's of the world getting elected?

***Notice those are from three totally different parts of the country.
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rpbobcat
12/15/2021 12:01 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
To be more specific, the actual problem for New Jersey has nothing to do with their gun laws, but with the fact that easily accessible states have very lax gun laws.

An "illegal gun" in New Jersey is often a perfectly legal gun elsewhere; there's little done to control or monitor the secondary market, and as such there's a gigantic secondary market in which guns are purchased legally in states with lax gun laws, effectively laundered through a secondary market sale which takes them "off the grid" and then end up sold in places like New York, Newark, Chicago, etc. turning them into illegal guns.

In the Northeast, Virginia's historically been the starting point for guns used in crimes. In Chicago, it's right next door in Indiana.

The reason there are so many guns is because it's really, really easy to get them in a whole bunch of places. That New Jersey's gun laws are so easily skirted by crossing state lines isn't, in my mind, an argument against the effectiveness of New Jersey's laws, but rather an argument that more states should have similar laws if there's a real, serious desire to address gun violence in the US.
New Jersey's gun laws aren't effective, primarily because only law abiding citizens, like me, follow them.

What you're saying about the availability, especially from certain states, may be 100% true.

But that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of gun crimes in NJ are being committed by people who couldn't care less what the laws are.

I'm sure they don't ask the person they are buying the gun from anything
other the "how much " ?
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