General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events Topic
Topic: Student Protest
Page: 4 of 4
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Alan Swank
4/23/2013 6:35 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
. . . And if they ever did have a sit down with students it would be with a group that the folks in Cutler hand picked as opposed to the thousands who gathered for a party on Palmer Street yesterday. [Emphasis mine]


This is a most interesting comparison, Alan.  Do you prefer they talk with a bunch of party animals as opposed to students that were, say, in the library studying at that time?  And, there were actually students in the library studying, researching and writing papers at that time. 


My good man, you paint the picture as black and white, either/or.  There were very responsible students who attended Palmerfest and there are students who live in the library who can hardly function outside of that environment (generalizations but you get the point).   Personally I would listen to the students who do both, study and play - the proverbial well rounded student who a liberal arts education strives to produce.
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Bcat2
4/23/2013 8:34 PM
OrlandoCat wrote:expand_more
2. There was an article in The Atlantic this month about how a college education is still the best investment you can make, despite skyrocketing tuition.


 


Thoes stats mean nothing.   My girlfriend is an OU grad, and she works as a waitress because she cannot find true employment.  So yes, check her off as 'employed,' but don't kid yourself into thinking she's able to pay back her student loans.


Not enough info. Her degree is in what?  How far has she extended her job search and how willing is she to relocate?


Without going into to much about her on a public message board.  She graduated with an English degree and would like to teach middle or high school english.  She's willing to go just about anywhere. She has an interview with Palm Beach County on Thursday...which is a 2 hour drive from where we are in Orlando.

When I graduated from OU I recieved an internship at Disney World.  During the interview I asked what the correlation between an internship and full time employment at Disney was.  he lady told me that 98% of the people who wish to continue working for Disney are able too.  What she didn't say is that it's as front line hourly - with average pay of 8/hr.

Has my degree helped me gain employment?  Sure.  Has it pulled a salary that offsets the cost of going to college?  Not by a long shot.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my time at OU, but to say that the media is 'sensationalizing' how many people are struggling with student debt is a slap in the face.

Edit to add:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-05-12/business/bs-bz-jobs-college-grads-20120512_1_college-grads-graduates-job-market


I am a retired teacher.  I hope your girlfriend finds a position.  English is very competitive.  English classrooms rarely turnover. Subbing well is a good stepping stone, though, who really knows. English teachers usually assume extra duties with; the school paper, yearbook, honor society, ACT/SAT prep, Academic Team, school plays, dance team, cheerleaders,  class sponsorship, etc. Coaching is a real plus. These duties and a crazy load of papers to grade make a long commute difficult.  Living in the vicinity of the school is highly recommended.  It would be recommended that young teachers gain their education degree/teachers certificates with minimal debt since continued education/professional development is expected. Local graduates from directional institutions, with JUCO prep, who handle duties are most common in classrooms.  Again, investing with borrowed money is a bad plan.
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Bcat2
4/24/2013 8:08 AM
OrlandoCat wrote:expand_more
I again wonder how it varies from one degree to another. I do not see college purely as a "job factory" like Alan mentioned, but I absolutely believe there are majors that have a negative value for students picking those majors. Some careers that require a college degree do not see the payoff to make that degree profitable for the student.  Yes, there is more to life than the money you make..  But you need to be able to support yourself and you want to gain some financial flexibility for the money and effort you put forth in college.  My guess with no evidence to back it up is that the kids protesting college costs are in majors much less likely to pay off than some of their classmates.


There is so much to this topic I would love to dive into, but off the top of my head, the major problem is:

College costs have gone up considerably while the average starting salary is still around 32k.  Just for perspective, my student loan payment is $786 per month.  When you add that to my car payments, rent, bills, and insurance...32k a year does not cut it.  (btw it took me 5 years out of college to get to a job that paid 32k base salary with benifits.)  Sallie Mae, one of - if not the - largest student loan providers, does not allow you to simply defer payments until you can afford to make them.


I am sorry you did not receive better counsel as you were investing in your education.  Make no mistake education is an investment.  Very few investment advisers would counsel you to borrow to invest.  My father and I used the G.I. bill and part time jobs to pay for our investments in education. My son used scholarships and jobs to complete his investment without debt. College loans are business loans.  Only the college loans are inexplicably entered into without a business plan, without examination of the marketability of the product.  Again, if you are to invest with borrowed cash you need to be very sure of the return.  My son came home for a visit with a friend who was a year and a half into degree all on loans.  We spent an evening examining the eventual cost of the degree, the employment potential and the ten years it would take to pay off the loans.  His friend had never examined thee things before and decided to stop borrowing and to work through instead. 


Yea the problem is nobody refers to them as investments until after you graduate.  I was in one of the better school systems in the Columbus area for grade school.  From as early as 5th grade we were told in no certain terms that if you want a 'good job' college is a must.

All that being said - I was in the Army reserves, and missed so school to serve with the military.  That in part is why it took me so long to graduate.


Veterans have been present on campuses since the G.I. Bill.  They are more mature and more likely to graduate.  I had the G.I. Bill. I was an R.A. which paid for my dorm. I worked part time six days a week.  I did not graduate four years after high school, but, I married as a student, paid all the bills and even once vacationed to Colorado on my own dime.  No way I would ever advise anyone to borrow there way through college. 
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Recovering Journalist
4/24/2013 9:02 AM
It's a mistake to equate a type of degree to a career. The workplace is far too dynamic for that, and jobseekers need to be as well. Most employers require bachelor’s degrees less because those skills are required for the job and more because it’s a cheap and easy way to initially screen applicants. A degree shows you are at minimum able to follow directions and complete tasks over the course of four years. I’m not saying all majors are meaningless, but most are not as meaningful as people think. OrlandoCat’s girlfriend has an English degree, which is a fantastic asset. The market sucks for most professions (and in an era of government austerity, especially for teachers), but if she really wants a job using her degree, she should cast a wider net than English teacher, where she’s competing against people with experience, teaching certificates, education degrees, etc.

I’ve worked for more than two dozen companies and clients, and I can tell you they all needed communication help. I’d have never learned that if I stayed within the narrow focus of my major. I graduated with a news editing degree just as the internet was getting big. I wanted to be a print journalist, and I did so for a few years until the wheels really started falling off the industry. Since then, I've done PR, corporate communications, marketing, web editing, and a bunch of other communication work – much of which didn't even exist when I was in college. Instead of thinking my degree taught me how to be a print journalist, I've embraced what it did teach me:  To research well, write clearly, hit deadlines, and craft stories that resonate. Don’t let your degree define your career. Use your degree to help guide your career.
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Alan Swank
4/24/2013 9:08 AM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
Don’t let your degree define your career. Use your degree to help guide your career.


Wow!  Nominee for quote of the off season.

When I hire yearbook representatives what I look for are creative problem solvers.  I'm not sure which major that would fall under but it takes listening skills, speaking skills and analytical skills.  Some would say that a person is born with those skills and that formal schooling serves to refine them while others will say that education creates those skills.  Whichever theory you subscribe to, a broad based college education in my opinion is the way to go and the broader the better.
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Monroe Slavin
4/24/2013 9:43 AM
Key skill, across the board:  ability to write well.

Key traits:  smarts, drive, integrity.

The rest is less important skills for a particular field.
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DelBobcat
4/24/2013 10:05 AM
OrlandoCat wrote:expand_more
2. There was an article in The Atlantic this month about how a college education is still the best investment you can make, despite skyrocketing tuition.


Unemployment rate less than HS grad - 12.4%
Unemployment rate for HS grad - 8.3%
Unemployment rate for associate's degree grad - 6.2%
Unemployment rate for college grad (Bachelor's) - 4.5%
Unemployment rate for college grad (Master's) - 3.5%

Bureau of Labor Statistics


Thoes stats mean nothing.   My girlfriend is an OU grad, and she works as a waitress because she cannot find true employment.  So yes, check her off as 'employed,' but don't kid yourself into thinking she's able to pay back her student loans.


Not enough info. Her degree is in what?  How far has she extended her job search and how willing is she to relocate?


Without going into to much about her on a public message board.  She graduated with an English degree and would like to teach middle or high school english.  She's willing to go just about anywhere. She has an interview with Palm Beach County on Thursday...which is a 2 hour drive from where we are in Orlando.

When I graduated from OU I recieved an internship at Disney World.  During the interview I asked what the correlation between an internship and full time employment at Disney was.  he lady told me that 98% of the people who wish to continue working for Disney are able too.  What she didn't say is that it's as front line hourly - with average pay of 8/hr.

Has my degree helped me gain employment?  Sure.  Has it pulled a salary that offsets the cost of going to college?  Not by a long shot.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my time at OU, but to say that the media is 'sensationalizing' how many people are struggling with student debt is a slap in the face.

Edit to add:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-05-12/business/bs-bz-jobs-college-grads-20120512_1_college-grads-graduates-job-market


I'm sorry but that link is chock full of anecdotes and poor analysis. They're singling out graduates under 25, who have historically had higher unemployment and underemployment. Yes, it is worse right now because we are on the heels of one of the worst recessions ever--but college is still a great investment in the long run.

This is exactly what I mean by media sensationalism. There is an established notion that something is happening (even though it's not) and they mold their story to fit that narrative.

Likewise, I presented you with a bunch of data and you are ignoring it because it contradicts your established opinion and personal experience.
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Bcat2
4/24/2013 11:11 AM
DelBobcat wrote:expand_more
2. There was an article in The Atlantic this month about how a college education is still the best investment you can make, despite skyrocketing tuition.


Unemployment rate less than HS grad - 12.4%
Unemployment rate for HS grad - 8.3%
Unemployment rate for associate's degree grad - 6.2%
Unemployment rate for college grad (Bachelor's) - 4.5%
Unemployment rate for college grad (Master's) - 3.5%

Bureau of Labor Statistics


Thoes stats mean nothing.   My girlfriend is an OU grad, and she works as a waitress because she cannot find true employment.  So yes, check her off as 'employed,' but don't kid yourself into thinking she's able to pay back her student loans.


Not enough info. Her degree is in what?  How far has she extended her job search and how willing is she to relocate?


Without going into to much about her on a public message board.  She graduated with an English degree and would like to teach middle or high school english.  She's willing to go just about anywhere. She has an interview with Palm Beach County on Thursday...which is a 2 hour drive from where we are in Orlando.

When I graduated from OU I recieved an internship at Disney World.  During the interview I asked what the correlation between an internship and full time employment at Disney was.  he lady told me that 98% of the people who wish to continue working for Disney are able too.  What she didn't say is that it's as front line hourly - with average pay of 8/hr.

Has my degree helped me gain employment?  Sure.  Has it pulled a salary that offsets the cost of going to college?  Not by a long shot.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my time at OU, but to say that the media is 'sensationalizing' how many people are struggling with student debt is a slap in the face.

Edit to add:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-05-12/business/bs-bz-jobs-college-grads-20120512_1_college-grads-graduates-job-market


I'm sorry but that link is chock full of anecdotes and poor analysis. They're singling out graduates under 25, who have historically had higher unemployment and underemployment. Yes, it is worse right now because we are on the heels of one of the worst recessions ever--but college is still a great investment in the long run.

This is exactly what I mean by media sensationalism. There is an established notion that something is happening (even though it's not) and they mold their story to fit that narrative.

Likewise, I presented you with a bunch of data and you are ignoring it because it contradicts your established opinion and personal experience.


Indeed, college is a great investment. However, you have to get any investment at the right price.  Scholarships, grants and working all minimize debt at graduation.  There has to be a plan that includes where you will work and paying your debt in the shortest run possible.
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Monroe Slavin
4/24/2013 4:06 PM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
2. There was an article in The Atlantic this month about how a college education is still the best investment you can make, despite skyrocketing tuition.


Unemployment rate less than HS grad - 12.4%
Unemployment rate for HS grad - 8.3%
Unemployment rate for associate's degree grad - 6.2%
Unemployment rate for college grad (Bachelor's) - 4.5%
Unemployment rate for college grad (Master's) - 3.5%

Bureau of Labor Statistics


Thoes stats mean nothing.   My girlfriend is an OU grad, and she works as a waitress because she cannot find true employment.  So yes, check her off as 'employed,' but don't kid yourself into thinking she's able to pay back her student loans.


Not enough info. Her degree is in what?  How far has she extended her job search and how willing is she to relocate?


Without going into to much about her on a public message board.  She graduated with an English degree and would like to teach middle or high school english.  She's willing to go just about anywhere. She has an interview with Palm Beach County on Thursday...which is a 2 hour drive from where we are in Orlando.

When I graduated from OU I recieved an internship at Disney World.  During the interview I asked what the correlation between an internship and full time employment at Disney was.  he lady told me that 98% of the people who wish to continue working for Disney are able too.  What she didn't say is that it's as front line hourly - with average pay of 8/hr.

Has my degree helped me gain employment?  Sure.  Has it pulled a salary that offsets the cost of going to college?  Not by a long shot.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my time at OU, but to say that the media is 'sensationalizing' how many people are struggling with student debt is a slap in the face.

Edit to add:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-05-12/business/bs-bz-jobs-college-grads-20120512_1_college-grads-graduates-job-market


I'm sorry but that link is chock full of anecdotes and poor analysis. They're singling out graduates under 25, who have historically had higher unemployment and underemployment. Yes, it is worse right now because we are on the heels of one of the worst recessions ever--but college is still a great investment in the long run.

This is exactly what I mean by media sensationalism. There is an established notion that something is happening (even though it's not) and they mold their story to fit that narrative.

Likewise, I presented you with a bunch of data and you are ignoring it because it contradicts your established opinion and personal experience.


Indeed, college is a great investment. However, you have to get any investment at the right price.  Scholarships, grants and working all minimize debt at graduation.  There has to be a plan that includes where you will work and paying your debt in the shortest run possible.
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bobcat695
4/25/2013 9:42 AM
In my daily life, I spend a lot of time helping my clients develop strategies to save enough money to help educate their children.  The cost of a college education is nearly a ridiculous total compared to the financial value of most degrees.  I am seeing few students graduating with critical skills like the ones Monroe mentioned above.  In my opinion, a college degree proves two things:  1)  You are capable of learning, and 2)  You can finish what you started.  

There are different views of higher education.  Many think that college is a place to develop critical thinking and become more well-rounded.  Others view college as strictly a vocational training ground.  I see the merits of both, but tend to look at education as a passage to the real world.  You need both, but ultimately companies are hiring on their perception of your value to their specific trade.  

Personally, I had a double major in Finance and Marketing.  One would think I was uniquely qualified to market financial services.  As it turned out, very little of my classroom training has ever been used in my career as a Financial Advisor, and I chose a profession that was exactly in line with my major courses of study.  The real skills I developed in college were work/school/personal life balance and my ability to communicate with others.  The social interactions I had in my four years were far more valuable to me than any single class I took.  Ohio University provided an environment for me to grow up in.  I learned how to manage my life.  I learned how to get good grades, work at least 20 hours a week, volunteer with charities, be in a relationship and have a good time on evenings and weekends with my friends.  The only real difference in my life now is that I substituted more work for school and added kids to my responsibilities.

Nobody likes writing big checks for college, but there is no way around it.  As painful as it is to pay for the education, the alternative is exponentially more painful.  While students at public universities are staging protests, I think the real problem is with small, private colleges.  Marietta College has a tuition rate of over $30,000/year right now.  Outside of their Petroleum Engineering program, you could argue until you're blue in the face and never convince me their students are coming out of there 3x better prepared than the students an hour away in Athens.

This is a really interesting discussion.  I can't wait for the eventual transition in this thread to the cost of health insurance and long term care.          
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DelBobcat
4/25/2013 11:29 AM
bobcat695 wrote:expand_more
In my daily life, I spend a lot of time helping my clients develop strategies to save enough money to help educate their children.  The cost of a college education is nearly a ridiculous total compared to the financial value of most degrees.  I am seeing few students graduating with critical skills like the ones Monroe mentioned above.  In my opinion, a college degree proves two things:  1)  You are capable of learning, and 2)  You can finish what you started.  

There are different views of higher education.  Many think that college is a place to develop critical thinking and become more well-rounded.  Others view college as strictly a vocational training ground.  I see the merits of both, but tend to look at education as a passage to the real world.  You need both, but ultimately companies are hiring on their perception of your value to their specific trade.  

Personally, I had a double major in Finance and Marketing.  One would think I was uniquely qualified to market financial services.  As it turned out, very little of my classroom training has ever been used in my career as a Financial Advisor, and I chose a profession that was exactly in line with my major courses of study.  The real skills I developed in college were work/school/personal life balance and my ability to communicate with others.  The social interactions I had in my four years were far more valuable to me than any single class I took.  Ohio University provided an environment for me to grow up in.  I learned how to manage my life.  I learned how to get good grades, work at least 20 hours a week, volunteer with charities, be in a relationship and have a good time on evenings and weekends with my friends.  The only real difference in my life now is that I substituted more work for school and added kids to my responsibilities.

Nobody likes writing big checks for college, but there is no way around it.  As painful as it is to pay for the education, the alternative is exponentially more painful.  While students at public universities are staging protests, I think the real problem is with small, private colleges.  Marietta College has a tuition rate of over $30,000/year right now.  Outside of their Petroleum Engineering program, you could argue until you're blue in the face and never convince me their students are coming out of there 3x better prepared than the students an hour away in Athens.

This is a really interesting discussion.  I can't wait for the eventual transition in this thread to the cost of health insurance and long term care.          

One thing that helps alleviate the high cost of private colleges is the fact that they are very generous with aid. Very few people pay the full cost at a private college. This is even more true at elite private colleges. For example, many students at Harvard pay less than they would at a public university, and if you make less than $60,000 per year your child can attend for FREE, assuming they are qualified.

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Alan Swank
4/25/2013 12:01 PM
Well this discussion that so many were enjoying just got killed.  Sad.
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OrlandoCat
4/26/2013 12:17 AM
DelBobcat wrote:expand_more
Likewise, I presented you with a bunch of data and you are ignoring it because it contradicts your established opinion and personal experience.


Your graphs didn't say anything about what I stated.  Sure, we're employed, but we're not making enough to pay back student loans.  Your graphs show me that I can make 12k more per year then a non college grad.  Great - 7k of that goes back to paying loans that the non college grad doesn't have.

My greater point is that while the cost of going to school (and thus the amount of student loan debt) companies don't pay for our more expensive college degrees.
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DelBobcat
4/26/2013 1:58 PM
OrlandoCat wrote:expand_more
Likewise, I presented you with a bunch of data and you are ignoring it because it contradicts your established opinion and personal experience.


Your graphs didn't say anything about what I stated.  Sure, we're employed, but we're not making enough to pay back student loans.  Your graphs show me that I can make 12k more per year then a non college grad.  Great - 7k of that goes back to paying loans that the non college grad doesn't have.

My greater point is that while the cost of going to school (and thus the amount of student loan debt) companies don't pay for our more expensive college degrees.


You will make hundreds of thousands of dollars more in your lifetime than a non-college graduate. That is a darn good investment, even after paying off your student loans.
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Alan Swank
4/26/2013 4:02 PM
Here's an interesting article.  Looks like one's sex has a great effect in the disparity than a degree.

http://education-portal.com/articles/How_Much_More_Do_College_Graduates_Earn_Than_Non-College_Graduates.html
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