General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events Topic
Topic: Student Protest
Page: 3 of 4
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OhioCatFan
4/21/2013 9:07 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
. . . And if they ever did have a sit down with students it would be with a group that the folks in Cutler hand picked as opposed to the thousands who gathered for a party on Palmer Street yesterday. [Emphasis mine]


This is a most interesting comparison, Alan.  Do you prefer they talk with a bunch of party animals as opposed to students that were, say, in the library studying at that time?  And, there were actually students in the library studying, researching and writing papers at that time. 
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JSF
4/21/2013 10:20 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
. . . And if they ever did have a sit down with students it would be with a group that the folks in Cutler hand picked as opposed to the thousands who gathered for a party on Palmer Street yesterday. [Emphasis mine]


This is a most interesting comparison, Alan.  Do you prefer they talk with a bunch of party animals as opposed to students that were, say, in the library studying at that time?  And, there were actually students in the library studying, researching and writing papers at that time. 


One of the advantages to our recent football success was I could go to the library during games and find myself plenty of places to settle in for a day of research and writing.
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Robert Fox
4/22/2013 9:05 AM
JSF wrote:expand_more
You really think the trustees are going to sit down with students? [/QUOTE]

Yes.

[QUOTE=JSF]
And you keep bringing up this question, assuming the answer is no, and paternalizing.


You have yet to prove me wrong.
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Recovering Journalist
4/22/2013 9:44 AM
I’m enjoying reading this debate, so I’ll wade in. You can argue about the merits of their tactics, but I’m convinced these kids are protesting out of sincere concern for the university and its students. For what it’s worth, I happened to be sitting next to two of them at lunch yesterday, and I can tell you from what I overheard that they didn’t take the arrests lightly. I also found it interesting that they were still wearing OU shirts after how they were treated at the meeting. You can say they were wrong to disrupt the meeting, but you can’t say they did so thoughtlessly or stupidly. These are bright kids who love their school and did something they believe in without harming anyone. The campus is a better place with kids like them on it.
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Robert Fox
4/22/2013 10:04 AM
I seem to be sending the wrong message, somehow. My argument is about the method of their argument, not about the merit of their argument or their individual intelligence. If they believe in their cause, one would think they would approach their strategy with the best potential opportunity for sucess.

Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
You can say they were wrong to disrupt the meeting, but you can’t say they did so thoughtlessly or stupidly. [/QUOTE]

I didn't say they were thoughtless or stupid.

These are bright kids who love their school and did something they believe in without harming anyone. 


I believe they are probably bright. I believe they themselves believe in their cause. I believe they didn't harm anyone.

[QUOTE=Recovering Journalist]
The campus is a better place with kids like them on it.


Probably true.
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Ohio69
4/22/2013 10:42 AM
JSF wrote:expand_more
One of the advantages to our recent football success was I could go to the library during games and find myself plenty of places to settle in for a day of research and writing.


Bobcat Dragon is so disappointed in you.......
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Monroe Slavin
4/22/2013 11:55 AM
"The worst enemy of human hope is not brute facts, but men of brains who will not face them."  Max Eastman, author
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DelBobcat
4/22/2013 4:16 PM
1. The Student Trustees position on this issue is closer to the average student's than the position of the vocal minority that is protesting. The Student Trustees are actually representing the students by not adopting these protesters' stance. 

2. There was an article in The Atlantic this month about how a college education is still the best investment you can make, despite skyrocketing tuition. The student loan debt crisis has been way overblown by the likes of Richard Vedder. 

3. The education at Ohio University is top notch and is still affordable compared to many other places. When I factored in aid and scholarships my education at Ohio was less expensive than my sister's at Shawnee State University. With all due respect to my sister and to SSU I think that I received a better value for my dollars. 

4. I've talked with some of the people who are so vehemently anti-athletics and they really are some of the least intelligent Ohio University students I've ever met. They are very close-minded and outwardly ignore evidence that is presented to them. I will gladly admit that there are issues to be weighed when deciding whether to pump more money into athletics, but these people think that we should eliminate varsity athletics altogether--even if it is a drop in the bucket when looking at the total budget. Granted, I haven't met all of the anti-athletics crowd but that's what I've seen in my sample.
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JSF
4/22/2013 5:36 PM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
One of the advantages to our recent football success was I could go to the library during games and find myself plenty of places to settle in for a day of research and writing.


Bobcat Dragon is so disappointed in you.......


Bobcat Dragon no longer exists.
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cc-cat
4/22/2013 7:05 PM
DelBobcat wrote:expand_more
2. There was an article in The Atlantic this month about how a college education is still the best investment you can make, despite skyrocketing tuition.


Unemployment rate less than HS grad - 12.4%
Unemployment rate for HS grad - 8.3%
Unemployment rate for associate's degree grad - 6.2%
Unemployment rate for college grad (Bachelor's) - 4.5%
Unemployment rate for college grad (Master's) - 3.5%

Bureau of Labor Statistics
Last Edited: 4/22/2013 7:09:35 PM by cc-cat
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Alan Swank
4/23/2013 9:35 AM
cc cat wrote:expand_more
2. There was an article in The Atlantic this month about how a college education is still the best investment you can make, despite skyrocketing tuition.


Unemployment rate less than HS grad - 12.4%
Unemployment rate for HS grad - 8.3%
Unemployment rate for associate's degree grad - 6.2%
Unemployment rate for college grad (Bachelor's) - 4.5%
Unemployment rate for college grad (Master's) - 3.5%

Bureau of Labor Statistics


But those figures don't show is the underemployment of so many of those with a degree.  Anyway, don't you just love the "off season."  We get a chance to have a discussion about bigger issues AND we get to demonstrate what we learned or didn't learn at good old OU.
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OrlandoCat
4/23/2013 11:00 AM
cc cat wrote:expand_more
2. There was an article in The Atlantic this month about how a college education is still the best investment you can make, despite skyrocketing tuition.


Unemployment rate less than HS grad - 12.4%
Unemployment rate for HS grad - 8.3%
Unemployment rate for associate's degree grad - 6.2%
Unemployment rate for college grad (Bachelor's) - 4.5%
Unemployment rate for college grad (Master's) - 3.5%

Bureau of Labor Statistics


Thoes stats mean nothing.   My girlfriend is an OU grad, and she works as a waitress because she cannot find true employment.  So yes, check her off as 'employed,' but don't kid yourself into thinking she's able to pay back her student loans.
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The Optimist
4/23/2013 11:07 AM
I again wonder how it varies from one degree to another. I do not see college purely as a "job factory" like Alan mentioned, but I absolutely believe there are majors that have a negative value for students picking those majors. Some careers that require a college degree do not see the payoff to make that degree profitable for the student.  Yes, there is more to life than the money you make..  But you need to be able to support yourself and you want to gain some financial flexibility for the money and effort you put forth in college.  My guess with no evidence to back it up is that the kids protesting college costs are in majors much less likely to pay off than some of their classmates.
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medler
4/23/2013 11:16 AM

Last Edited: 4/23/2013 11:19:05 AM by medler
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OrlandoCat
4/23/2013 11:20 AM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
I again wonder how it varies from one degree to another. I do not see college purely as a "job factory" like Alan mentioned, but I absolutely believe there are majors that have a negative value for students picking those majors. Some careers that require a college degree do not see the payoff to make that degree profitable for the student.  Yes, there is more to life than the money you make..  But you need to be able to support yourself and you want to gain some financial flexibility for the money and effort you put forth in college.  My guess with no evidence to back it up is that the kids protesting college costs are in majors much less likely to pay off than some of their classmates.


There is so much to this topic I would love to dive into, but off the top of my head, the major problem is:

College costs have gone up considerably while the average starting salary is still around 32k.  Just for perspective, my student loan payment is $786 per month.  When you add that to my car payments, rent, bills, and insurance...32k a year does not cut it.  (btw it took me 5 years out of college to get to a job that paid 32k base salary with benifits.)  Sallie Mae, one of - if not the - largest student loan providers, does not allow you to simply defer payments until you can afford to make them.
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BillyTheCat
4/23/2013 11:58 AM
College is to a large degree a sham that fleeces money from people and inspires great amounts of debt.  When a school is producing so many worthless degrees.  Just look at our own beloved institution, what are kids doing with Sports Industry Degrees?  Coaching?  Adventure Recreation? Campus Recreation? Classical Civilization? Greek and Latin? Outdoor education and camping????? Any jobs that exist in these areas are not justified by a $60k degree, and the burden to repay the debit, and I did not even begin to go down the areas such as English, Art, and so forth that at one time were great classic degrees but a classic degree in today's world of economics is kind of hard to justify.
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Ohio69
4/23/2013 12:47 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
One of the advantages to our recent football success was I could go to the library during games and find myself plenty of places to settle in for a day of research and writing.


Bobcat Dragon is so disappointed in you.......


Bobcat Dragon no longer exists.


We need to shine the Bobcat Dragon symbol in the skies above the Convo to re-awaken him......
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Bcat2
4/23/2013 1:18 PM
OrlandoCat wrote:expand_more
2. There was an article in The Atlantic this month about how a college education is still the best investment you can make, despite skyrocketing tuition.


Unemployment rate less than HS grad - 12.4%
Unemployment rate for HS grad - 8.3%
Unemployment rate for associate's degree grad - 6.2%
Unemployment rate for college grad (Bachelor's) - 4.5%
Unemployment rate for college grad (Master's) - 3.5%

Bureau of Labor Statistics


Thoes stats mean nothing.   My girlfriend is an OU grad, and she works as a waitress because she cannot find true employment.  So yes, check her off as 'employed,' but don't kid yourself into thinking she's able to pay back her student loans.


Not enough info. Her degree is in what?  How far has she extended her job search and how willing is she to relocate?
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DelBobcat
4/23/2013 1:21 PM
OrlandoCat wrote:expand_more
2. There was an article in The Atlantic this month about how a college education is still the best investment you can make, despite skyrocketing tuition.


Unemployment rate less than HS grad - 12.4%
Unemployment rate for HS grad - 8.3%
Unemployment rate for associate's degree grad - 6.2%
Unemployment rate for college grad (Bachelor's) - 4.5%
Unemployment rate for college grad (Master's) - 3.5%

Bureau of Labor Statistics


Thoes stats mean nothing.   My girlfriend is an OU grad, and she works as a waitress because she cannot find true employment.  So yes, check her off as 'employed,' but don't kid yourself into thinking she's able to pay back her student loans.


This anecdote is not representative of the whole, even though the media likes to sensationalize and give only these examples. Yes, there are too many people that are in bad situations like your girlfriend BUT overwhelmingly holders of bachelor's degrees have jobs in their fields--even among the 25-35 cohort. 

College always has been and still is a great investment.

 

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DallasCat
4/23/2013 1:23 PM
OrlandoCat wrote:expand_more
College costs have gone up considerably while the average starting salary is still around 32k.  Just for perspective, my student loan payment is $786 per month..


Good God man have you looked into Income Based Repayment? My minimum went from about $500 to $280.
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Bcat2
4/23/2013 1:57 PM
OrlandoCat wrote:expand_more
I again wonder how it varies from one degree to another. I do not see college purely as a "job factory" like Alan mentioned, but I absolutely believe there are majors that have a negative value for students picking those majors. Some careers that require a college degree do not see the payoff to make that degree profitable for the student.  Yes, there is more to life than the money you make..  But you need to be able to support yourself and you want to gain some financial flexibility for the money and effort you put forth in college.  My guess with no evidence to back it up is that the kids protesting college costs are in majors much less likely to pay off than some of their classmates.


There is so much to this topic I would love to dive into, but off the top of my head, the major problem is:

College costs have gone up considerably while the average starting salary is still around 32k.  Just for perspective, my student loan payment is $786 per month.  When you add that to my car payments, rent, bills, and insurance...32k a year does not cut it.  (btw it took me 5 years out of college to get to a job that paid 32k base salary with benifits.)  Sallie Mae, one of - if not the - largest student loan providers, does not allow you to simply defer payments until you can afford to make them.


I am sorry you did not receive better counsel as you were investing in your education.  Make no mistake education is an investment.  Very few investment advisers would counsel you to borrow to invest.  My father and I used the G.I. bill and part time jobs to pay for our investments in education. My son used scholarships and jobs to complete his investment without debt. College loans are business loans.  Only the college loans are inexplicably entered into without a business plan, without examination of the marketability of the product.  Again, if you are to invest with borrowed cash you need to be very sure of the return.  My son came home for a visit with a friend who was a year and a half into degree all on loans.  We spent an evening examining the eventual cost of the degree, the employment potential and the ten years it would take to pay off the loans.  His friend had never examined thee things before and decided to stop borrowing and to work through instead. 
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DelBobcat
4/23/2013 2:20 PM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
I again wonder how it varies from one degree to another. I do not see college purely as a "job factory" like Alan mentioned, but I absolutely believe there are majors that have a negative value for students picking those majors. Some careers that require a college degree do not see the payoff to make that degree profitable for the student.  Yes, there is more to life than the money you make..  But you need to be able to support yourself and you want to gain some financial flexibility for the money and effort you put forth in college.  My guess with no evidence to back it up is that the kids protesting college costs are in majors much less likely to pay off than some of their classmates.


There is so much to this topic I would love to dive into, but off the top of my head, the major problem is:

College costs have gone up considerably while the average starting salary is still around 32k.  Just for perspective, my student loan payment is $786 per month.  When you add that to my car payments, rent, bills, and insurance...32k a year does not cut it.  (btw it took me 5 years out of college to get to a job that paid 32k base salary with benifits.)  Sallie Mae, one of - if not the - largest student loan providers, does not allow you to simply defer payments until you can afford to make them.


I am sorry you did not receive better counsel as you were investing in your education.  Make no mistake education is an investment.  Very few investment advisers would counsel you to borrow to invest.  My father and I used the G.I. bill and part time jobs to pay for our investments in education. My son used scholarships and jobs to complete his investment without debt. College loans are business loans.  Only the college loans are inexplicably entered into without a business plan, without examination of the marketability of the product.  Again, if you are to invest with borrowed cash you need to be very sure of the return.  My son came home for a visit with a friend who was a year and a half into degree all on loans.  We spent an evening examining the eventual cost of the degree, the employment potential and the ten years it would take to pay off the loans.  His friend had never examined thee things before and decided to stop borrowing and to work through instead. 


It's impossible to work and attend school without borrowing any more. College is more expensive than ever and you will not find a job that pays enough to pay for tuition, room, and board. Luckily, student loans have interest rates that are much lower than the average return on investment on a college degree. College is one situation where it is okay to borrow the money you invest. See the graphs I posted earlier in the thread. 

Also, to Orlando Cat: Sallie Mae allows income based repayment. There is no reason you should be paying that much every month.

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OrlandoCat
4/23/2013 3:35 PM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
I again wonder how it varies from one degree to another. I do not see college purely as a "job factory" like Alan mentioned, but I absolutely believe there are majors that have a negative value for students picking those majors. Some careers that require a college degree do not see the payoff to make that degree profitable for the student.  Yes, there is more to life than the money you make..  But you need to be able to support yourself and you want to gain some financial flexibility for the money and effort you put forth in college.  My guess with no evidence to back it up is that the kids protesting college costs are in majors much less likely to pay off than some of their classmates.


There is so much to this topic I would love to dive into, but off the top of my head, the major problem is:

College costs have gone up considerably while the average starting salary is still around 32k.  Just for perspective, my student loan payment is $786 per month.  When you add that to my car payments, rent, bills, and insurance...32k a year does not cut it.  (btw it took me 5 years out of college to get to a job that paid 32k base salary with benifits.)  Sallie Mae, one of - if not the - largest student loan providers, does not allow you to simply defer payments until you can afford to make them.


I am sorry you did not receive better counsel as you were investing in your education.  Make no mistake education is an investment.  Very few investment advisers would counsel you to borrow to invest.  My father and I used the G.I. bill and part time jobs to pay for our investments in education. My son used scholarships and jobs to complete his investment without debt. College loans are business loans.  Only the college loans are inexplicably entered into without a business plan, without examination of the marketability of the product.  Again, if you are to invest with borrowed cash you need to be very sure of the return.  My son came home for a visit with a friend who was a year and a half into degree all on loans.  We spent an evening examining the eventual cost of the degree, the employment potential and the ten years it would take to pay off the loans.  His friend had never examined thee things before and decided to stop borrowing and to work through instead. 


Yea the problem is nobody refers to them as investments until after you graduate.  I was in one of the better school systems in the Columbus area for grade school.  From as early as 5th grade we were told in no certain terms that if you want a 'good job' college is a must.

All that being said - I was in the Army reserves, and missed so school to serve with the military.  That in part is why it took me so long to graduate.
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OrlandoCat
4/23/2013 3:53 PM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
2. There was an article in The Atlantic this month about how a college education is still the best investment you can make, despite skyrocketing tuition.


Unemployment rate less than HS grad - 12.4%
Unemployment rate for HS grad - 8.3%
Unemployment rate for associate's degree grad - 6.2%
Unemployment rate for college grad (Bachelor's) - 4.5%
Unemployment rate for college grad (Master's) - 3.5%

Bureau of Labor Statistics


Thoes stats mean nothing.   My girlfriend is an OU grad, and she works as a waitress because she cannot find true employment.  So yes, check her off as 'employed,' but don't kid yourself into thinking she's able to pay back her student loans.


Not enough info. Her degree is in what?  How far has she extended her job search and how willing is she to relocate?


Without going into to much about her on a public message board.  She graduated with an English degree and would like to teach middle or high school english.  She's willing to go just about anywhere. She has an interview with Palm Beach County on Thursday...which is a 2 hour drive from where we are in Orlando.

When I graduated from OU I recieved an internship at Disney World.  During the interview I asked what the correlation between an internship and full time employment at Disney was.  he lady told me that 98% of the people who wish to continue working for Disney are able too.  What she didn't say is that it's as front line hourly - with average pay of 8/hr.

Has my degree helped me gain employment?  Sure.  Has it pulled a salary that offsets the cost of going to college?  Not by a long shot.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my time at OU, but to say that the media is 'sensationalizing' how many people are struggling with student debt is a slap in the face.

Edit to add:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-05-12/business/bs-bz-jobs-college-grads-20120512_1_college-grads-graduates-job-market
Last Edited: 4/23/2013 4:05:32 PM by OrlandoCat
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