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General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events Topic
Topic: Boyd Hall evacuated after 19 students test positive for Covid
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Alan Swank
10/17/2020 8:02 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
If you want to go the engineering route it all begins in high school by taking 4 if not 5 years worth of math to be able to handle the rigor. I had 5 years in math including calculus to go along with AP classes in the humanities. In my school district only honors students were permitted to take the courses from a lineage that starts from the gifted programs in elementary school.

It is possible to get an engineering degree starting from not having the traditional prep background for it but its fairly rare.
A lot depends on the how rigorous the high school program is.


The quality of high school AP programs varies a lot.

We've found that kids who were in programs that required taking the AP exam have a much higher level of competency then those who didn't have to.
"Taking" AP classes doesn't mean what it used to. I never could understand how taking the class and not taking the test made sense. RP hit the nail on the head with these three sentences.
With so few schools Giving AP class credit, not taking the test makes a lot of sense, speaking from personal experience with a student who received 7 - 5’s and not getting one class credit and dealing with seniors who have largely decided what school they are attending and their requirements, not taking the test makes perfect financial sense.

As an educator, of an AP class for 14 years in 3 different subjects, I have never had a student achieve less than a 3, (which is passing) and a 100% “passage” rate of my students, yet very little credit ever given to the students.

I agree Regional campuses need examined, but that will be a tough pill for many decision makers and politicians.

There is a reason the College Board started requiring money in November v the spring, they are bleeding numbers of test takers in AP classes.
Not sure what you mean by no credit given. No credit given by the local high school or no credit given by the college the student attended? Seems like lots of schools are giving credit.

http://pages.prompt.com/colleges-that-accept-2020-ap-cred...
Do you notice that none of them say what you need to get that credit? Some may give the hours but not count the class. Not like I am on the front lines of this with the students though. Oh well.
You'll have to explain this one - Some may give the hours but not count the class. From my experience working with high schools and colleges in over 25 states, AP credit used to be a big deal. Now taking an AP class in many cases is just another example of grade inflation and resume padding. Imagine, getting a 6.0 in an AP class and you don't even have to take the test. :)
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BillyTheCat
10/18/2020 12:00 AM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
If you want to go the engineering route it all begins in high school by taking 4 if not 5 years worth of math to be able to handle the rigor. I had 5 years in math including calculus to go along with AP classes in the humanities. In my school district only honors students were permitted to take the courses from a lineage that starts from the gifted programs in elementary school.

It is possible to get an engineering degree starting from not having the traditional prep background for it but its fairly rare.
A lot depends on the how rigorous the high school program is.


The quality of high school AP programs varies a lot.

We've found that kids who were in programs that required taking the AP exam have a much higher level of competency then those who didn't have to.
"Taking" AP classes doesn't mean what it used to. I never could understand how taking the class and not taking the test made sense. RP hit the nail on the head with these three sentences.
With so few schools Giving AP class credit, not taking the test makes a lot of sense, speaking from personal experience with a student who received 7 - 5’s and not getting one class credit and dealing with seniors who have largely decided what school they are attending and their requirements, not taking the test makes perfect financial sense.

As an educator, of an AP class for 14 years in 3 different subjects, I have never had a student achieve less than a 3, (which is passing) and a 100% “passage” rate of my students, yet very little credit ever given to the students.

I agree Regional campuses need examined, but that will be a tough pill for many decision makers and politicians.

There is a reason the College Board started requiring money in November v the spring, they are bleeding numbers of test takers in AP classes.
Not sure what you mean by no credit given. No credit given by the local high school or no credit given by the college the student attended? Seems like lots of schools are giving credit.

http://pages.prompt.com/colleges-that-accept-2020-ap-cred...
Do you notice that none of them say what you need to get that credit? Some may give the hours but not count the class. Not like I am on the front lines of this with the students though. Oh well.
You'll have to explain this one - Some may give the hours but not count the class. From my experience working with high schools and colleges in over 25 states, AP credit used to be a big deal. Now taking an AP class in many cases is just another example of grade inflation and resume padding. Imagine, getting a 6.0 in an AP class and you don't even have to take the test. :)
AP classes look good for High School accredition like North Central, IB, etc. looks good on college apps, but it’s not what it once was when I taught my first AP class in 1994.

For a high school, AP offerings help the profile while CC+ does not. However, which benefits the kids more?

As a teacher would you push a student to drop $100 on a test you know probably will not help a student in regards to acquiring class credit to make your HS look better? Or would you advise your student to look at what may be best for them? I average about 50% of my students take the exam yearly. 100% in my career has earned 3’s or higher. Two years ago, my 2 students who went IVY did not take the exam, guaranteed 5’s if they did. My student who received the lowest grade achieved a 5 on the exam.
Last Edited: 10/18/2020 12:04:48 AM by BillyTheCat
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Alan Swank
10/18/2020 12:12 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
If you want to go the engineering route it all begins in high school by taking 4 if not 5 years worth of math to be able to handle the rigor. I had 5 years in math including calculus to go along with AP classes in the humanities. In my school district only honors students were permitted to take the courses from a lineage that starts from the gifted programs in elementary school.

It is possible to get an engineering degree starting from not having the traditional prep background for it but its fairly rare.
A lot depends on the how rigorous the high school program is.


The quality of high school AP programs varies a lot.

We've found that kids who were in programs that required taking the AP exam have a much higher level of competency then those who didn't have to.
"Taking" AP classes doesn't mean what it used to. I never could understand how taking the class and not taking the test made sense. RP hit the nail on the head with these three sentences.
With so few schools Giving AP class credit, not taking the test makes a lot of sense, speaking from personal experience with a student who received 7 - 5’s and not getting one class credit and dealing with seniors who have largely decided what school they are attending and their requirements, not taking the test makes perfect financial sense.

As an educator, of an AP class for 14 years in 3 different subjects, I have never had a student achieve less than a 3, (which is passing) and a 100% “passage” rate of my students, yet very little credit ever given to the students.

I agree Regional campuses need examined, but that will be a tough pill for many decision makers and politicians.

There is a reason the College Board started requiring money in November v the spring, they are bleeding numbers of test takers in AP classes.
Not sure what you mean by no credit given. No credit given by the local high school or no credit given by the college the student attended? Seems like lots of schools are giving credit.

http://pages.prompt.com/colleges-that-accept-2020-ap-cred...
Do you notice that none of them say what you need to get that credit? Some may give the hours but not count the class. Not like I am on the front lines of this with the students though. Oh well.
You'll have to explain this one - Some may give the hours but not count the class. From my experience working with high schools and colleges in over 25 states, AP credit used to be a big deal. Now taking an AP class in many cases is just another example of grade inflation and resume padding. Imagine, getting a 6.0 in an AP class and you don't even have to take the test. :)
AP classes look good for High School accredition like North Central, IB, etc. looks good on college apps, but it’s not what it once was when I taught my first AP class in 1994.

For a high school, AP offerings help the profile while CC+ does not. However, which benefits the kids more?

As a teacher would you push a student to drop $100 on a test you know probably will not help a student in regards to acquiring class credit to make your HS look better? Or would you advise your student to look at what may be best for them? I average about 50% of my students take the exam yearly. 100% in my career has earned 3’s or higher. Two years ago, my 2 students who went IVY did not take the exam, guaranteed 5’s if they did. My student who received the lowest grade achieved a 5 on the exam.
Good questions all. Your first paragraph is exactly one of the points that I was making - AP in some caes has simply been a "keep up with the Jones" addition to many schools course offerings when in reality, it's nothing more than a traditional honors course as opposed to the rigorous AP courses that you first saw in the New England states years ago.

While many families have benefited greatly financially speaking from CC+ here in Ohio, depending on the high school and the teacher, I'd much rather a student stay at their local high school and take a CC+ class from an experienced teacher than heading off to a local college to take an easier version of the same class. Multiple students at Athens told us that the classes at OU were a piece of cake compared to what they would be required to do at AHS (not all classes obviously but some).

As for spending the money, if the AP test would guarantee advanced placement with college credit at the stuednt's school of choice, I'd say it would be a wise investment. I took tests at Muskingum and exempted freshman comp, freshman math and two years of French. Those were free tests the college gave in the summer before admittance. There was no course credit towards the 128 hours required to graduate but I didn't have to take comp or math and was therefore able to take more electives. Junior level French was a bear considering how little time most high schools spent on actually speaking French as opposed to conjugating every verb under the sun. :)
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BillyTheCat
10/18/2020 8:31 PM
“ As for spending the money, if the AP test would guarantee advanced placement with college credit at the stuednt's school of choice, I'd say it would be a wise investment. I took tests at Muskingum and exempted freshman comp, freshman math and two years of French. Those were free tests the college gave in the summer before admittance. There was no course credit towards the 128 hours required to graduate but I didn't have to take comp or math and was therefore able to take more electives. Junior level French was a bear considering how little time most high schools spent on actually speaking French as opposed to conjugating every verb under the sun.”


Al, If’s and Butts were candy and nuts.....exactly my point, AP is not guaranteed anything other than a check mark on an application for accreditation and admission. As for the work load aspect and rigor of some classes v other, we will have to simply disagree.
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longtiimelurker
11/1/2020 10:45 PM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
Also, many students will spend the first two years at a community college then transfer credits to a four-year university as a cost-saving measure. They stay with their parents or rent a cheap apartment to save on room and board. So Ohio gets two years' of tuition, maybe less of room and board, instead of four.
New Jersey is actually encouraging the Community College approach.

A few years ago they put in place a system that assures a 100% "seamless" transfer of Community College credits to any state school.

We've had a problem with students from Community Colleges going into the engineering programs at FDU.
We've found that most Community College classes in math and science,especially things like Calculus and Physics are not taught at the same level as a four year college.

So, even though the credits may be accepted,the students aren't able to function in higher level classes.

That means that a lot of our Community College students end up having to retake these of classes.
That has been the case for many years at Illinois and Purdue. It is quite eye opening though to watch a student take Stats, Statics and Calculus online. I am not sure how Universities are delivering on line education while taking Physics, Microbiology, Organic Chem and similar lab and science type courses. Seems counter intuitive to watch a lab in any of those and them expect to go out into the workforce without ever actually doing a lab.
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rpbobcat
11/2/2020 6:46 AM
longtiimelurker wrote:expand_more
Seems counter intuitive to watch a lab in any of those and them expect to go out into the workforce without ever actually doing a lab.
How about nurses.

A friend of mine's daughter just finished a 14 month B.S. to B.S.N. degree.

Because of covid,almost all of her "clinical",was "virtual",watching videos.

Her mom said her pediatrics "clinical" was watching videos of different types of births.

Her daughter said that, even though she has her B.S.N.,and after she passes her boards,she will be an R.N. she's not prepared to work in the "real world" where people's lives are at stake.
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