Ohio Football Recruiting Topic
Topic: Thoughts on the last couple year's recruiting
Page: 3 of 3
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L.C.
7/10/2013 11:37 PM
the123kid wrote:expand_more
....If Solich had Toledo recruiting classes would the teams be better?  I don't think so.
[/QUOTE]It is clear that the Ohio teams have performed better on the field than their recruiting rank. I think everyone would agree with that. The key question is why that happened. Was it because of coaching, making them into better players? Was it because of better analysis of recruits, i.e. correctly identifying players with ability? Was it because of game planning and play calling, i.e. using the talent they have better? Honestly I have no answer, but I suspect it was a little of all of the above.



I would have thought that a fairly big name like Frank Solich would be able to attract top 3 level talent in the MAC on a yearly basis, but it just hasn't worked out that way so far ...

I think that, plus the stability of the situation at Ohio are both very good selling points. The upgraded facilities are a big help, too.  All these things are reasons the classes keep improving.




[QUOTE=BuddyLee]... I would venture to say that during the Solich tenure we've generally ended up in the mid to bottom half of the MAC conference yearly based on the final scouting website rankings.  They can't all be wrong can they?  ...

On Scout.com, that's really easy. Here a link, that has the conference rankings by year. Ohio from 2005 to now ranked 2005 -2d (91)
2006 - 8th (103)
2007 - 9th (110)
2008 - 9th (105)
2009 - 5th (96)
2010 - 12th (118)
2011 - 3rd (80)
2012 - 10th (103)
2013 - 9th (101)
Average Rank=7.44

As a comparison, let's look at NIU, which was only able to out-recruit Ohio in 2 of 9 years.
2005 -4th (97)
2006 - 9th (104)
2007 - 10th (114)
2008 - 13th (118)
2009 - 8th (105)
2010 - 9th (103) *Higher than Ohio
2011 - 9th (90)
2012 - 12th (105)
2013 - 7th (89) * Higher than Ohio
Average rank = 9

So, there you have it. The two teams with the best winning percentage over that time period were in the bottom half of recruiting.

OK. Now, who's up for a little work, and some fun? PM me, and I will send you a long list of names of players who have played at Ohio over the last 10 years. Simply rank them from 1-4 based on how you think they turned out, with 4 being a star, 3 being a good starter, 2 being a reliable backup and contributor, and 1 being a non-contributor. I will then see how your after-the-fact rankings compare to their recruiting rankings by the major services.
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colobobcat66
7/12/2013 12:17 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
....If Solich had Toledo recruiting classes would the teams be better? I don't think so.
It is clear that the Ohio teams have performed better on the field than their recruiting rank. I think everyone would agree with that. The key question is why that happened. Was it because of coaching, making them into better players? Was it because of better analysis of recruits, i.e. correctly identifying players with ability? Was it because of game planning and play calling, i.e. using the talent they have better? Honestly I have no answer, but I suspect it was a little of all of the above.



I would have thought that a fairly big name like Frank Solich would be able to attract top 3 level talent in the MAC on a yearly basis, but it just hasn't worked out that way so far ...

I think that, plus the stability of the situation at Ohio are both very good selling points. The upgraded facilities are a big help, too. All these things are reasons the classes keep improving.




... I would venture to say that during the Solich tenure we've generally ended up in the mid to bottom half of the MAC conference yearly based on the final scouting website rankings. They can't all be wrong can they? ...

On Scout.com, that's really easy. Here a link, that has the conference rankings by year. Ohio from 2005 to now ranked 2005 -2d (91)
2006 - 8th (103)
2007 - 9th (110)
2008 - 9th (105)
2009 - 5th (96)
2010 - 12th (118)
2011 - 3rd (80)
2012 - 10th (103)
2013 - 9th (101)
Average Rank=7.44

As a comparison, let's look at NIU, which was only able to out-recruit Ohio in 2 of 9 years.
2005 -4th (97)
2006 - 9th (104)
2007 - 10th (114)
2008 - 13th (118)
2009 - 8th (105)
2010 - 9th (103) *Higher than Ohio
2011 - 9th (90)
2012 - 12th (105)
2013 - 7th (89) * Higher than Ohio
Average rank = 9

So, there you have it. The two teams with the best winning percentage over that time period were in the bottom half of recruiting.

OK. Now, who's up for a little work, and some fun? PM me, and I will send you a long list of names of players who have played at Ohio over the last 10 years. Simply rank them from 1-4 based on how you think they turned out, with 4 being a star, 3 being a good starter, 2 being a reliable backup and contributor, and 1 being a non-contributor. I will then see how your after-the-fact rankings compare to their recruiting rankings by the major services.
thanks for putting the data together. One point that I have made before is that I think having standouts at the offensive skill positions pays big dividends. For Ohio , we have been fortunate to have had way better than average QB'S and receivers over the past 1/2 dozen or so seasons- just look at all the records that have fallen. ( Somewhat due to new offensive philosophy) And for NIU , they've had Harnish and Lynch recently. This is a team sport, and you have to have adequate offensive lines, but give me real difference makers on offense, and you'll win more than your average share of your ball games.
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L.C.
7/12/2013 8:16 PM
I used my own after-their-career evaluations of all players recruited from 2005-2009 to correlate with the "stars".
For scout:
Players they rated 1 star (they no longer give this rating) - I rated 2.8 stars
Players they rated 2 stars - I rated 2.8 stars
Players they rated 3 stars - I rated 2.7 stars
Players they rated 4 stars - I rated 3.5 stars

So... No difference at all between players they rate 1-3 stars, but players rated 4 stars are better.

For Rivals:
Players they rate 4.9 (they no longer give this rating, meant unknown) - I rate 3.0
Players they rate 5.0 (they no longer give this rating, meant low 2-star) - I rate 2.4 stars
Players they rate 5.1 (they no longer give this rating) - I rate 3.2
Players they rate 5.2 (now their current lowest rating) - I rate 2.6
Players they rate 5.3 - I rate 2.9
Players they rate 5.4 - I rate 3.4
Players they rate 5.5 - I rate 3.3
Players they rate 5.6 - I rate 2.9
Players they rate 5.7 - I rate 3.0

Breaking it down differently:
4.9 = unknown player = I rate 3.0
5.0-5.3 = 2-star players = I rate 2.6
5.4and up = very high 2-star players and up = I rate 3.1

so...It's better to have someone they don't know than someone they know, but don't like that well. Anything 5.4 and up is good.

ESPN - rarely rates any Ohio players, so these results aren't statistically significant, but...
unrated - 2.9
6.5-6.9 => 2.5
7.0-7.5 => 2.4
above 7.5 = 3.2

Like Rivals, the best players are either unknown, or rated very highly.

Overall conclusions - During this time period, Ratings from Scout and ESPN weren't particularly useful. Until you get to the 4-star level, there is no difference. Rivals was the rating that correlated best to on-the-field performance. The best groups of player were players rated 5.4 or better, and players they don't know at all. I think the same remains true today. By that standard, this class looks good - they two they know are rated 5.4 or better, and the rest are unknown.
Last Edited: 7/12/2013 11:24:31 PM by L.C.
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TWT
7/14/2013 7:36 PM
Some of you think the program is a long way off but the way I look at its 90% of the way to what it could be. There was a near miss on a MAC Championship in 2011 and had we won against Miami, BG and Kent last year there was a real shot at making a BCS game even when dropping one to Ball State. Attendance was at 90% of capacity last year with ticket prices at about 90% of the maximum you could charge with those bathrooms and concessions. The recruiting is good enough its more the injury bug that is a problem. The new surface should help cut down on injuries and of course the IPF should have a similar surface.
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Robert Fox
7/17/2013 11:31 AM
Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
The new surface should help cut down on injuries and of course the IPF should have a similar surface.


Not sure there is any correlation between our playing surface and injuries.
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Business_Cat
7/17/2013 5:29 PM
Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
The new surface should help cut down on injuries and of course the IPF should have a similar surface.


Not sure there is any correlation between our playing surface and injuries.


I have no supporting statistics. However, a friend of mine who works with the team said that he believes the injuries were caused by the playing surface having divots and uneven spots. That has to take a toll on ankels and knees. 

Anyone have data on types of injuries we had last year?
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L.C.
7/17/2013 6:08 PM
Business_Cat wrote:expand_more
...Anyone have data on types of injuries we had last year?

Travis Carrie - Shoulder
Jamil Shaw - Shoulder
John Tanner - Shoulder
Xavier Hughes - Shoulder
Derek Roback - Back
Vince Carlotta - Concussion
Tyler Tettleton - Abdomen
Josiah Yazdani - Knee
Ryan Boykin - Knee
Matt Pritchard - Knee
Jordon Thompson - Knee
Mario Dovell - Broken Leg
Sebastian Smith - Broken Leg
Ryan McGrath - Leg
Sam Johnson - Ankle
Landon Smith - Ankle
Tremayne Scott - Foot
Carl Jones - Don't remember
Neal Huynh - Don't remember
Showing Messages: 51 - 57 of 57
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