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Topic: Sook
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Sam bobcat
10/30/2017 4:32 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
I don't know what the reality is today. I'm just giving you my perspective. I'm assuming the time demands are greater today than when I was there from 1977-81. When coaches make more money, there is incentive to coach 'em up. I know the NCAA has time limits, but I'm certain that line is blurred. Of course it is a challenge to play a division one sport and study. Time management skills are crucial, as is communication with professors and a commitment to your studies. My grades were lower as a result of juggling both, but I did graduate with my class on time. I feel I am better for the experience. I don't like the athletes being further segregated from the students. What about the band members, cheerleaders and those who work while attending class, and anyone who has extracurricular activities? Can they use the Sook Center? I don't think it's a bad thing, but makes me wonder about the big picture.
You don't like the athletes being segregated from the students? What does it matter what you or I like? It is done for good reasons. Things were different back when you played. And let me know how many people tune in to watch cheerleaders and band members perform. They don't get special treatment because they aren't special. That being said, I'm sure the players would be okay sharing with the cheerleaders.
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rpbobcat
10/31/2017 6:46 AM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
I don't like the athletes being further segregated from the students.
Unless I'm missing something,student athletes aren't forced to use an Academic Center.
They can study wherever they want.
But it does seem,from reading the comments of current/former athletes,that they find the environment of this type of facility conducive to their academic endeavors.

It also provides the ability to work with advisers who are familiar with the requirements/rules for athletes.

As a former D1 athlete,and contributor to the Sook Center,I would like to cast my vote for allowing cheerleaders to use it.
Last Edited: 10/31/2017 6:49:02 AM by rpbobcat
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Buckeye to Bobcat
10/31/2017 2:41 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
I always see on this board where people want us using the Sports aD program guys more in our programs g. But are you guys aware that is who has started this Sook Center crap? The authors of this paper are our own Sports AD guy.
As one of those alums, he does not reflect as our viewpoint on everything. Definitely was beneficial for Sports AD guys to fill in, especially when looking at cost of an employee versus a graduate assistant. The personnel that comes into the athletic departments do pretty darn good work, and I can attest to that from my 3 years involved with OU.
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giacomo
10/31/2017 5:55 PM
Sam bobcat wrote:expand_more
I don't know what the reality is today. I'm just giving you my perspective. I'm assuming the time demands are greater today than when I was there from 1977-81. When coaches make more money, there is incentive to coach 'em up. I know the NCAA has time limits, but I'm certain that line is blurred. Of course it is a challenge to play a division one sport and study. Time management skills are crucial, as is communication with professors and a commitment to your studies. My grades were lower as a result of juggling both, but I did graduate with my class on time. I feel I am better for the experience. I don't like the athletes being further segregated from the students. What about the band members, cheerleaders and those who work while attending class, and anyone who has extracurricular activities? Can they use the Sook Center? I don't think it's a bad thing, but makes me wonder about the big picture.
You don't like the athletes being segregated from the students? What does it matter what you or I like? It is done for good reasons. Things were different back when you played. And let me know how many people tune in to watch cheerleaders and band members perform. They don't get special treatment because they aren't special. That being said, I'm sure the players would be okay sharing with the cheerleaders.
Not special? Is this the POTUS undercover? I've been to football games when the stands cleared out after the 101 played their halftime show.
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BillyTheCat
11/1/2017 12:59 AM
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:expand_more
I always see on this board where people want us using the Sports aD program guys more in our programs g. But are you guys aware that is who has started this Sook Center crap? The authors of this paper are our own Sports AD guy.
As one of those alums, he does not reflect as our viewpoint on everything. Definitely was beneficial for Sports AD guys to fill in, especially when looking at cost of an employee versus a graduate assistant. The personnel that comes into the athletic departments do pretty darn good work, and I can attest to that from my 3 years involved with OU.
I haven't dissed the work of the Sports Ad grad students, but facts are facts, the faculty in question here has a National and regional platform to spout his rhetoric and it looks bad. As I've stated before this is a guy who was banned from working in Athletics and was banned from a local youth league, and he wants to lecture the University on matters of academics, integrity and Athletics. No Thanks!
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BillyTheCat
11/1/2017 1:00 AM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
I don't know what the reality is today. I'm just giving you my perspective. I'm assuming the time demands are greater today than when I was there from 1977-81. When coaches make more money, there is incentive to coach 'em up. I know the NCAA has time limits, but I'm certain that line is blurred. Of course it is a challenge to play a division one sport and study. Time management skills are crucial, as is communication with professors and a commitment to your studies. My grades were lower as a result of juggling both, but I did graduate with my class on time. I feel I am better for the experience. I don't like the athletes being further segregated from the students. What about the band members, cheerleaders and those who work while attending class, and anyone who has extracurricular activities? Can they use the Sook Center? I don't think it's a bad thing, but makes me wonder about the big picture.
You don't like the athletes being segregated from the students? What does it matter what you or I like? It is done for good reasons. Things were different back when you played. And let me know how many people tune in to watch cheerleaders and band members perform. They don't get special treatment because they aren't special. That being said, I'm sure the players would be okay sharing with the cheerleaders.
Not special? Is this the POTUS undercover? I've been to football games when the stands cleared out after the 101 played their halftime show.
I've never even seen the 101 play.
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giacomo
11/1/2017 12:31 PM
9 were expelled for academic reasons.
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BillyTheCat
11/1/2017 1:28 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
9 were expelled for academic reasons.
LMAO!!!!
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OUVan
11/2/2017 9:00 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
I see nothing wrong with someone not from athletics running the tutoring and academic advising portion of this operation. Frankly, following the various scandals, including UNC, it would probably look really good on Ohio University to do this.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Obviously, anybody that worked in Sook would need to be well versed in NCAA eligibility issues but I think it's a good idea to have some oversight.
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rpbobcat
11/2/2017 9:59 AM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
I see nothing wrong with someone not from athletics running the tutoring and academic advising portion of this operation. Frankly, following the various scandals, including UNC, it would probably look really good on Ohio University to do this.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Obviously, anybody that worked in Sook would need to be well versed in NCAA eligibility issues but I think it's a good idea to have some oversight.
Thing is,as was posted earlier in this thread,the phantom courses at UNC were created by the university's academic side.
In fact,that's why there no NCAA violations/penalties for athletes taking them.
Last Edited: 11/2/2017 10:00:25 AM by rpbobcat
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Buckeye to Bobcat
11/2/2017 10:06 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
I always see on this board where people want us using the Sports aD program guys more in our programs g. But are you guys aware that is who has started this Sook Center crap? The authors of this paper are our own Sports AD guy.
As one of those alums, he does not reflect as our viewpoint on everything. Definitely was beneficial for Sports AD guys to fill in, especially when looking at cost of an employee versus a graduate assistant. The personnel that comes into the athletic departments do pretty darn good work, and I can attest to that from my 3 years involved with OU.
I haven't dissed the work of the Sports Ad grad students, but facts are facts, the faculty in question here has a National and regional platform to spout his rhetoric and it looks bad. As I've stated before this is a guy who was banned from working in Athletics and was banned from a local youth league, and he wants to lecture the University on matters of academics, integrity and Athletics. No Thanks!
Can't argue with that. Definitely agreeing with you here, but nonetheless does not look good to preach standards when one is a hypocrite
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BillyTheCat
11/2/2017 2:13 PM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
I see nothing wrong with someone not from athletics running the tutoring and academic advising portion of this operation. Frankly, following the various scandals, including UNC, it would probably look really good on Ohio University to do this.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Obviously, anybody that worked in Sook would need to be well versed in NCAA eligibility issues but I think it's a good idea to have some oversight.
Thing is,as was posted earlier in this thread,the phantom courses at UNC were created by the university's academic side.
In fact,that's why there no NCAA violations/penalties for athletes taking them.
Winner winner chicken dinner!!!!
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Sam bobcat
11/3/2017 9:00 AM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
I don't know what the reality is today. I'm just giving you my perspective. I'm assuming the time demands are greater today than when I was there from 1977-81. When coaches make more money, there is incentive to coach 'em up. I know the NCAA has time limits, but I'm certain that line is blurred. Of course it is a challenge to play a division one sport and study. Time management skills are crucial, as is communication with professors and a commitment to your studies. My grades were lower as a result of juggling both, but I did graduate with my class on time. I feel I am better for the experience. I don't like the athletes being further segregated from the students. What about the band members, cheerleaders and those who work while attending class, and anyone who has extracurricular activities? Can they use the Sook Center? I don't think it's a bad thing, but makes me wonder about the big picture.
You don't like the athletes being segregated from the students? What does it matter what you or I like? It is done for good reasons. Things were different back when you played. And let me know how many people tune in to watch cheerleaders and band members perform. They don't get special treatment because they aren't special. That being said, I'm sure the players would be okay sharing with the cheerleaders.
Not special? Is this the POTUS undercover? I've been to football games when the stands cleared out after the 101 played their halftime show.
Was that when you played?
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giacomo
11/6/2017 12:12 PM
I didn't play football, but I do recall attending games while in school and after, where a sizable amount of people left after the halftime show.
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Sam bobcat
11/6/2017 4:37 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
I didn't play football, but I do recall attending games while in school and after, where a sizable amount of people left after the halftime show.
When they start giving band members full rides I will agree with you on their importance.
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ExCat21
11/8/2017 2:00 PM
OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
I would assume donors to the Academic Center are more interested in education for the athletes than eligibility. Athletic Departments around the country have gotten in trouble for focusing solely on eligibility. I don't see a problem with this as long as the academic side understands the importance of athletics on campus. I believe it can be mutually beneficial to use this approach.
But the two (eligibility and education) are symbiotic. I don't really see them as being separate. If the focus is on keeping them eligible, tutoring can help them keep their grades at an acceptable level --> education.

As someone who has taken advantage of additional athletics department tutoring support, it is much appreciated. And I would almost deem it necessary given the amount of travel/practice time many of the student-athletes commit to.

There is often a stigma associated with student-athletes that they have it "easy" when it comes to classes. In many cases, they have it much harder -- especially the ones with more difficult course work.

With the advent of #MACtion weeknight games for football, this can make it much worse for football players. There are also other teams that travel during the week.

We can lament the perils of weekday games as fans, but students traveling to/from Michigan on a weekday is not easy when it comes to making up classes/tests.

It takes balance and compromise, from coaches, professors and the student-athletes themselves to make it work. And I think OU has a pretty good system in place that should only get better with the Sook Center.
OhioStunter,

I could not agree with you more on this. I hate when students say,"Ahh man, you have it easy." Buddy while you were playing with friends and not doing after-school activities as a kiddo, I was "preparing myself for the future putting the pads on in 3rd grade." I knew my parents could not afford college at a young age and I had to "go get it." I also agree with you on tests and exams during MACtion. Regular students get to study while we had to either take tests before our game or study playbook and schoolbooks on the road.
What I did not like about Academic Advisors (non-athletic advisor) is that they treat athletes like we are dumb. It got to the point, where I stopped meeting with my advisor. My athletic advisor Amy Wolfe-Washington and Chad Kelly at the time, were amazing. They moved on to great places; Amy went to Northwestern and Chad went to Mississippi State. I think the athletic program is in great hands and we have more academic scholars now than we did when I was playing. Ohio will never take the route UNC did (although the were proven as non-violators because their African-American studies "paper class" was available for all students, not just athletes). Sook will enhance that experience and make it better for future athletes. I hope the faculty never gets access to Sook. Meanwhile, ESPN is showing us some "construction love" on their site: http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/195/ohio-b...
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BillyTheCat
11/9/2017 6:53 AM
ExCat21 wrote:expand_more
I would assume donors to the Academic Center are more interested in education for the athletes than eligibility. Athletic Departments around the country have gotten in trouble for focusing solely on eligibility. I don't see a problem with this as long as the academic side understands the importance of athletics on campus. I believe it can be mutually beneficial to use this approach.
But the two (eligibility and education) are symbiotic. I don't really see them as being separate. If the focus is on keeping them eligible, tutoring can help them keep their grades at an acceptable level --> education.

As someone who has taken advantage of additional athletics department tutoring support, it is much appreciated. And I would almost deem it necessary given the amount of travel/practice time many of the student-athletes commit to.

There is often a stigma associated with student-athletes that they have it "easy" when it comes to classes. In many cases, they have it much harder -- especially the ones with more difficult course work.

With the advent of #MACtion weeknight games for football, this can make it much worse for football players. There are also other teams that travel during the week.

We can lament the perils of weekday games as fans, but students traveling to/from Michigan on a weekday is not easy when it comes to making up classes/tests.

It takes balance and compromise, from coaches, professors and the student-athletes themselves to make it work. And I think OU has a pretty good system in place that should only get better with the Sook Center.
OhioStunter,

I could not agree with you more on this. I hate when students say,"Ahh man, you have it easy." Buddy while you were playing with friends and not doing after-school activities as a kiddo, I was "preparing myself for the future putting the pads on in 3rd grade." I knew my parents could not afford college at a young age and I had to "go get it." I also agree with you on tests and exams during MACtion. Regular students get to study while we had to either take tests before our game or study playbook and schoolbooks on the road.
What I did not like about Academic Advisors (non-athletic advisor) is that they treat athletes like we are dumb. It got to the point, where I stopped meeting with my advisor. My athletic advisor Amy Wolfe-Washington and Chad Kelly at the time, were amazing. They moved on to great places; Amy went to Northwestern and Chad went to Mississippi State. I think the athletic program is in great hands and we have more academic scholars now than we did when I was playing. Ohio will never take the route UNC did (although the were proven as non-violators because their African-American studies "paper class" was available for all students, not just athletes). Sook will enhance that experience and make it better for future athletes. I hope the faculty never gets access to Sook. Meanwhile, ESPN is showing us some "construction love" on their site: http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/195/ohio-b...

FYI: your academic advisor was Jason Kelly, not Chad.
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rpbobcat
10/18/2018 6:49 AM
Bringing this back from the dead.

If you don't know,the official opening of the Sook Center is this weekend.

No surprise,The Post has an article with professors commenting that the money that was donated for it should have been used for things like "teaching and research".

As has been stated here before,the donations were solicited specifically for the Sook Center.

I resent professors telling me what my donation should be used for.

If the professors want to start their own fundraising campaign for "teaching and research" let them.
Last Edited: 10/18/2018 7:08:06 AM by rpbobcat
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TWT
10/18/2018 7:14 AM
I guess I may be wrong but isn't tutoring part of teaching? I guess I may be wrong again but isn't the academic center in alignment with the concept of learning communities on campus? Isn't athletics a community no different than others (women's center, J-School, Engineering) so it can have needs specific to it as a community?
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rpbobcat
10/18/2018 7:26 AM
Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
I guess I may be wrong but isn't tutoring part of teaching? I guess I may be wrong again but isn't the academic center in alignment with the concept of learning communities on campus? Isn't athletics a community no different than others (women's center, J-School, Engineering) so it can have needs specific to it as a community?
One of the professors' issues is "control".
They object to the fact that they don't get to run the facility.

I also found it interesting that,just as in the in past,The Post article doesn't
include any comments from the student athletes who be using Sook.

The only time The Post ever put in athletes' comments were when they got "called out" for one sidedness.
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Mark Lembright '85
10/18/2018 9:32 AM
Gotta agree with RPBobcat, I'm not a fan of professors telling me where I should make a donation. It's my $ to donate, not theirs.

I don't see how there can be anything bad to say about Sook. The picture on Ohio.edu/Compass taken behind Sook overlooking Peden/Sook is beautiful; Sook shockingly makes that antiquated football complex actually look good; no small feat in that!

I understand the point Prof. Ridpath has about further separation of the general student body from the the athletes Sook might encourage. However, I think the plusses outweigh the minuses. Besides, I know when I was an undergrad at OU, living on N. College and State St., we weren't hanging out with the athletes at all, know what I mean? So how much interaction between athlete and general students are there anyway? I tend to think just as much after Sook as there was before Sook. So thank you Mr. and Mrs. Sook (and all the donors)!
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