Ohio Football Topic
Topic: 110 and OSU Band Playing Together
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Alan Swank
9/23/2025 4:47 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
As a former member of the BOT once told several alumni at the Charles Ping retirement party in Cleveland, "Despite all our efforts, the one consistently elite characteristic of our university is the pettiness of its local community." OCF is Exhibit 1.
Would love to hear more about this so called pettiness. Was that board member an Athens resident?
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
9/23/2025 5:27 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Would love to hear more about this so called pettiness. Was that board member an Athens resident?
I dunno if pettiness is the word I would use, but even on BA it's clear that Athens has more than its share of small-town gossip, and that there are a whole lot of old grads in town who think their opinions matter.
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Alan Swank
9/23/2025 8:48 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Would love to hear more about this so called pettiness. Was that board member an Athens resident?
I dunno if pettiness is the word I would use, but even on BA it's clear that Athens has more than its share of small-town gossip, and that there are a whole lot of old grads in town who think their opinions matter.
Opinions matter in what context?
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rpbobcat
9/24/2025 6:57 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Would like to know who they are referring to.

The only prominent Asst director I can think of was Josh Boyer who still does works with the 110.

I've met him a number of times.
Super nice guy. Never heard anyone say a bad word about him.

If anyone knows any different, please post.
Why so protective of 110 leadership??????

Also, before you pass judgment on this unnamed worker, isn't important that you know their race/gender/sexual orientation so you can decide whether or not they were a DEI hire?
I've known Dr. Suk since he became director of the 110.

Never heard anyone say a bad word about him.

Same with their Asst. directors.

That's not being protective.
Merely stating my opinion.

You seem to want to make this about things about the 110 I never mentioned.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
9/24/2025 8:27 AM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
I've known Dr. Suk since he became director of the 110.

Never heard anyone say a bad word about him.

Same with their Asst. directors.

That's not being protective.
Merely stating my opinion.

You seem to want to make this about things about the 110 I never mentioned.
OCF is the one who has been critical of Dr. Suk and 110 leadership. He believes really strongly that an administrator is fully responsible for their subordinates, and a few posts ago, when he thought that the subordinate in question worked for the AD, it was reflective of poor leadership in the ADs office. So the only logical conclusion here is that the 110's leadership is the issue.

I don't know if it's a DEI thing or what, but I'm confident that you and OCF are on the case. We can all rest easy in the Ohiop University community knowing we've got an elderly buddy cop duo who know literally nothing about anything policing every school administrator from afar.
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MonroeClassmate
9/24/2025 8:32 AM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
Any administrator is ultimately responsible for what subordinates do. Why so protective of the AD?
Pretty sure SBH is pointing out -- again -- that the 110 is not part of the athletic department and therefore none of this has to do with the AD.

When they were investigated for hazing -- and boy is it exciting that we're talking about that again -- it was overseen by Jenny Hall-Jones, and I don't recall there being any involvement from the ADs office. It would be weird if there had been, given that the 110 isn't part of the athletic department.
100% correct.

The "hazing investigation" was all handled by Ms. Jones not the Athletic
department.

Ms. Jones, who replaced Jason Pina , was no friend of the 110 and seemed intent on hurting them.

The "hazing" investigation showed that.

She seemed to keep dragging out the investigation into the 110.

If I remember correctly she was only in the interim VP for student affairs
for less then 2 years before she left for Grand Valley State University.

I don't think you'll find any member of the 110 or their families who has
positive things to say about her.

Also, if I recall correctly, the extensive investigation didn't find any evidence of hazing on the part of any member of the 110.
Ms. Jones sounds like a perfect hire for Oberlin College.

Since she left after a short tenure was it rumored she was gong to be shown the door by the OU Administration and chose to move on instead of being canned?
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SBH
9/24/2025 9:45 AM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
As a former member of the BOT once told several alumni at the Charles Ping retirement party in Cleveland, "Despite all our efforts, the one consistently elite characteristic of our university is the pettiness of its local community." OCF is Exhibit 1.
Would love to hear more about this so called pettiness. Was that board member an Athens resident?
Countless examples. How about putting a parking boot on the football bus prior to departure for an away game?
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Alan Swank
9/24/2025 10:17 AM
SBH wrote:expand_more
As a former member of the BOT once told several alumni at the Charles Ping retirement party in Cleveland, "Despite all our efforts, the one consistently elite characteristic of our university is the pettiness of its local community." OCF is Exhibit 1.
Would love to hear more about this so called pettiness. Was that board member an Athens resident?
Countless examples. How about putting a parking boot on the football bus prior to departure for an away game?
Was that OUPD or APD and what violation was cited for the booting?
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SBH
9/24/2025 10:36 AM
The counterproductive pettiness - which the trustee cited as a reason for the difficulty in finding and retaining qualified leaders - can be seen within all elements of the local community, including many folks who work for the university.

The infamous booting incident was the work of OU Parking Services, as I recall. BTC can offer more background I'm sure.
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OhioCatFan
9/24/2025 11:07 AM
Postulate: There should be good relations between the ADs office and the 110 leadership.

Postulate: Folks on BA will argue about anything.

Postulate: Discussions on BA are the modern equivalent of the "solemn foolery" of 19th Century groups like the Ancient and Honorable Court of Dover.

Postulate: When communication breaks down between two entities there are usually encoding and decoding issues on both ends.

Postulate: Supervisors are ultimately responsible for the actions of their subordinates.

Theorem: There's a lot of blame to spread around for the issues between the 110 and the ADs office, and we can argue endlessly about it, and the results of our discussion will have zero effect on the real world.
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Alan Swank
9/24/2025 11:28 AM
SBH wrote:expand_more
The counterproductive pettiness - which the trustee cited as a reason for the difficulty in finding and retaining qualified leaders - can be seen within all elements of the local community, including many folks who work for the university.

The infamous booting incident was the work of OU Parking Services, as I recall. BTC can offer more background I'm sure.
So the pettiness you quoted was the university booting its own bus. Yep, that's an Athens problem.

When city council met with the president last month, the two top challenges that the university administration cited in attracting people to come here to work were housing and a lack of amenities. There isn't an 18 hole golf course in the county, there is a dearth of middle to higher end restaurants, actual retail has virtually disappeared, the airport is almost 75 miles away, etc.
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MonroeClassmate
9/24/2025 12:14 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
The counterproductive pettiness - which the trustee cited as a reason for the difficulty in finding and retaining qualified leaders - can be seen within all elements of the local community, including many folks who work for the university.

The infamous booting incident was the work of OU Parking Services, as I recall. BTC can offer more background I'm sure.
There isn't an 18 hole golf course in the county.

GOAL--HAVE OU become the Kent State of the MAC in Men's and Women's Golf

Give Athens CC a 100 year lease on "The Hill" property and let them sell their property to developers for some upscale housing. These dollars can be put towards annual maintenance on the new course till the course becomes profitable.

Budget: University kicks in $5 million to building the course--the land is already controlled. Top Architect hired.

Remodel one of the current buildings to become the club house which includes banquet space, a grill, rooms for overnighters (like at Firestone CC).

And of course if we build it they will come. Recruits to the slightly more seasonal weather than other current MAC schools and golfers interested in a side trip from their family while visiting Hocking Hills.

Zanesville courses do a nice job of getting golfers to play and stay. Athens could lure golfers and benefit the hotels and restaurants in town.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
9/24/2025 12:23 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Postulate: There should be good relations between the ADs office and the 110 leadership.

Postulate: Folks on BA will argue about anything.

Postulate: Discussions on BA are the modern equivalent of the "solemn foolery" of 19th Century groups like the Ancient and Honorable Court of Dover.

Postulate: When communication breaks down between two entities there are usually encoding and decoding issues on both ends.

Postulate: Supervisors are ultimately responsible for the actions of their subordinates.

Theorem: There's a lot of blame to spread around for the issues between the 110 and the ADs office, and we can argue endlessly about it, and the results of our discussion will have zero effect on the real world.

Man is this sad.

You tried to blame this on the ADs office because you 1) misread something, 2) dislike the old AD, and 3) that dislike clouds your ability to think rationally when she's involved.

Everybody sees that. We've all watched it for years. Just own up to the mistake and move on. Just sad to then try and position yourself as some logically driven voice of reason.
Last Edited: 9/24/2025 12:24:12 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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SBH
9/24/2025 1:09 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
The counterproductive pettiness - which the trustee cited as a reason for the difficulty in finding and retaining qualified leaders - can be seen within all elements of the local community, including many folks who work for the university.

The infamous booting incident was the work of OU Parking Services, as I recall. BTC can offer more background I'm sure.
So the pettiness you quoted was the university booting its own bus. Yep, that's an Athens problem.

When city council met with the president last month, the two top challenges that the university administration cited in attracting people to come here to work were housing and a lack of amenities. There isn't an 18 hole golf course in the county, there is a dearth of middle to higher end restaurants, actual retail has virtually disappeared, the airport is almost 75 miles away, etc.
Small-mindedness is an Athens problem whether it occurs among those who do or do not work for the university.
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SBH
9/24/2025 2:05 PM
MonroeClassmate wrote:expand_more
The counterproductive pettiness - which the trustee cited as a reason for the difficulty in finding and retaining qualified leaders - can be seen within all elements of the local community, including many folks who work for the university.

The infamous booting incident was the work of OU Parking Services, as I recall. BTC can offer more background I'm sure.
There isn't an 18 hole golf course in the county.

GOAL--HAVE OU become the Kent State of the MAC in Men's and Women's Golf

Give Athens CC a 100 year lease on "The Hill" property and let them sell their property to developers for some upscale housing. These dollars can be put towards annual maintenance on the new course till the course becomes profitable.

Budget: University kicks in $5 million to building the course--the land is already controlled. Top Architect hired.

Remodel one of the current buildings to become the club house which includes banquet space, a grill, rooms for overnighters (like at Firestone CC).

And of course if we build it they will come. Recruits to the slightly more seasonal weather than other current MAC schools and golfers interested in a side trip from their family while visiting Hocking Hills.

Zanesville courses do a nice job of getting golfers to play and stay. Athens could lure golfers and benefit the hotels and restaurants in town.
What has KSU's historic strength in golf really achieved? The university sold its course for housing development. Golf is not the attraction it once was; just ask the folks at Atwood Lake Resort, who poured money into their course hoping it would draw guests. That resort is now a heroin addition recovery center.
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Ohio69
9/24/2025 3:42 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
When city council met with the president last month, the two top challenges that the university administration cited in attracting people to come here to work were housing and a lack of amenities. There isn't an 18 hole golf course in the county, there is a dearth of middle to higher end restaurants, actual retail has virtually disappeared, the airport is almost 75 miles away, etc.
Anecdotally, if there was adequate housing folks would move to Athens. I've heard this from many people in Marietta/Parkersburg area, Lancaster, Gallipolis area, and Columbus in the last 12 months. And, none of those people had real ties to the area other an one was an alum. When I asked what type of housing it was 3-4 bedroom homes or a high end condo community. It was interesting hearing them bring it up on their own. Mostly, "oh, you are from Athens? We would consider moving there but...."

This string is sort of proof of pettiness. We played at OSU. They paid us $1.9 million. The band played halftime with the OSU band. The game was intriguing into the third quarter. My OU gear wearing group were treated great around the stadium... Win, win, win.... But people are bitter about where the band sat? Meh...
Last Edited: 9/24/2025 3:48:19 PM by Ohio69
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Alan Swank
9/24/2025 4:49 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
The counterproductive pettiness - which the trustee cited as a reason for the difficulty in finding and retaining qualified leaders - can be seen within all elements of the local community, including many folks who work for the university.

The infamous booting incident was the work of OU Parking Services, as I recall. BTC can offer more background I'm sure.
There isn't an 18 hole golf course in the county.

GOAL--HAVE OU become the Kent State of the MAC in Men's and Women's Golf

Give Athens CC a 100 year lease on "The Hill" property and let them sell their property to developers for some upscale housing. These dollars can be put towards annual maintenance on the new course till the course becomes profitable.

Budget: University kicks in $5 million to building the course--the land is already controlled. Top Architect hired.

Remodel one of the current buildings to become the club house which includes banquet space, a grill, rooms for overnighters (like at Firestone CC).

And of course if we build it they will come. Recruits to the slightly more seasonal weather than other current MAC schools and golfers interested in a side trip from their family while visiting Hocking Hills.

Zanesville courses do a nice job of getting golfers to play and stay. Athens could lure golfers and benefit the hotels and restaurants in town.
What has KSU's historic strength in golf really achieved? The university sold its course for housing development. Golf is not the attraction it once was; just ask the folks at Atwood Lake Resort, who poured money into their course hoping it would draw guests. That resort is now a heroin addition recovery center.
Actually golf participation has been on the rise since Covid. Kent plays at Windmill Lakes which was always a much better course than the university course. Check out Kent's golf training facility. And like any other business, a smart businessman will use the property for maximum profit.

https://www.ngf.org/short-game/golfs-state-of-industry-in... /

Still waiting to hear the examples of pettiness.

https://kentstatesports.com/sports/2013/7/18/GEN_0718132925
Last Edited: 9/24/2025 4:50:58 PM by Alan Swank
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SBH
9/24/2025 5:28 PM
I know a strong golf program will be a powerful tool for growing enrollment. Not.
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SBH
9/24/2025 5:58 PM
Quote:expand_more
Still waiting to hear the examples of pettiness.
Paul Wiehl's multi-year refusal to approve the curb cut connecting Bobcat Lane to Richland Ave.

The 2 faculty members I sat with at an AD fundraiser who told me they hate Ohio Athletics and attended only to enjoy the free food and drink.

Several recent posts here by OCF.

The owner of Artifacts Gallery

I can go on and on.
Last Edited: 9/24/2025 6:07:43 PM by SBH
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Alan Swank
9/24/2025 7:45 PM
This should be fun. No one said a thing about growing a strong golf program. The golf reference was to amenities that we lack in Athens that member of the administrative team acknowledge pose a challenge for attracting folks to move to Athens.

Paul Wiehl hasn't been mayor in almost 9 years. Maybe we cite Seward's Folly.

I would bet that at any fundraiser, you'd find folks there just for the free food and drink.

Artifacts Gallery. A business woman who stated her opiinions and continues to run a shop with lots of patrons. Surely you can do better than that.
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SBH
9/24/2025 9:13 PM
You quite clearly stated the goal of making OU the Kent State of MAC women's and men's golf.

Your defensiveness re Athens is disturbing. For a guy who criticizes the university as much as you do, pettiness hits pretty close to home I guess. Ask Rod McDavis about some of his experiences in Athens.

I simply related a conversation with a trustee who seemed to be very disappointed in the local "environment" and clearly stated that it's harming the institution.

And asking the school to pay $5 million to build out a private course...yeah, that'll make people happy.
Last Edited: 9/24/2025 9:19:40 PM by SBH
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Alan Swank
9/24/2025 9:42 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
You quite clearly stated the goal of making OU the Kent State of MAC women's and men's golf.

Your defensiveness re Athens is disturbing. For a guy who criticizes the university as much as you do, pettiness hits pretty close to home I guess. Ask Rod McDavis about some of his experiences in Athens.

I simply related a conversation with a trustee who seemed to be very disappointed in the local "environment" and clearly stated that it's harming the institution.

And asking the school to pay $5 million to build out a private course...yeah, that'll make people happy.


Nowhere did I say a thing about OU's golf teams. The comment was about a lack of amenities including an 18 hole golf course in Athens/Athens County as a deterrent for some to move here for a job.

You weren't in the meeting on August 12 with the OU president and the cabinet where we talked about how we could work together to better the university and the city. There's no doubt that without OU, the city wouldn't be what it is today. But with that presence comes certain obligations such as helping support the cost of a fire department that not only protects the city but almost 7000 students living in high rise dorms and learning in a multitude of classrooms. 1850+ calls for service to university property in 3 1/2 years and not one dime of compensation puts a serious strain on city resources. Yes we get $50k per year toward a ladder fire truck but who do you think has the greatest number of high rise buildings in Athens?

And no one has hinted at or asked the university to build a $5 million dollar golf course. For five million you'd get 5 holes.

Asking hard questions of an institution in no way shape or form implies criticism. It's called civic responsibility and civil discussion just like the hard questions we field every Monday night at city council meetings.
.
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SBH
9/25/2025 7:31 AM
SBH wrote:expand_more
[QUOTE=Alan Swank]


There isn't an 18 hole golf course in the county.

GOAL--HAVE OU become the Kent State of the MAC in Men's and Women's Golf

Give Athens CC a 100 year lease on "The Hill" property and let them sell their property to developers for some upscale housing. These dollars can be put towards annual maintenance on the new course till the course becomes profitable.

Budget: University kicks in $5 million to building the course--the land is already controlled. Top Architect hired.

Remodel one of the current buildings to become the club house which includes banquet space, a grill, rooms for overnighters (like at Firestone CC).

And of course if we build it they will come. Recruits to the slightly more seasonal weather than other current MAC schools and golfers interested in a side trip from their family while visiting Hocking Hills.

Zanesville courses do a nice job of getting golfers to play and stay. Athens could lure golfers and benefit the hotels and restaurants in town.
Last Edited: 9/25/2025 7:40:03 AM by SBH
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
9/25/2025 9:01 AM
I'll say this: if the people on this board accurately reflect the Athens community, it's hard not to side with SBH on this one. Pettiness in spades.
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OhioCatFan
9/25/2025 2:14 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I'll say this: if the people on this board accurately reflect the Athens community, it's hard not to side with SBH on this one. Pettiness in spades. 

What do you expect since my highest rank in the U.S. Navy was a third class petty officer!frown coolsmiley

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