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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: All I need to see as an Alum - Fire Albin
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rpbobcat
9/28/2021 1:23 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
If he returns, Albin is going to have to look at how to inject new ideas and life into the program. Staying at the status quo in terms of the staff and systems isn't going to work.
Coach Albin is 56.
He has been using pretty much the same offensive coaching
scheme his entire time here.

As they say "the leopard can't change his spots".
Even if he wanted to,I don't think it would be easy for Coach Albin to "inject
new ideas and life into the program".
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GoCats105
9/28/2021 1:56 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
While your point is fair, and pretty accurate, the point he makes and others feel, is that this program had developed a stagnant feel before Albin.
This is the outcome you get when your program's been so bad historically that the university and fanbase were willing to celebrate mediocrity as success for two decades.

We won zero MAC championships. We got some participation trophies at shitty bowl games. Last year there was a debate on this board about the biggest win in OU football history, and the conclusion reached was that it was beating a sub-par Pitt team in Solich's first game. People here, with a straight face, insisted it was bigger than the basketball team's many NCAA tournament wins.

Programs and organizations set the bar for themselves. We set it very low for ourselves. This is what happens when you do that.

Now, in our defense, we're competing at a level we're not able to compete at. So there are external factors competing against us. But that doesn't excuse the fact that the fanbase made an implicit promise to treat mediocrity as success for a very, very long time. What we've learned is that you fall to irrelevance from mediocrity very quickly. Had we actually been successful, the fall would take longer.
Nail meet hammer.
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SBH
9/28/2021 2:26 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
One thing I ask on all this ... Would our fanbase be as upset if Cromer had cleaned house when Frank hung it up ... hired an interim or an outside coach with the understanding the program is in a transition?

I think what upsets me (and maybe many) is we knew this would be the outcome with Albin.

I, for one, would be less disappointed by 0-4 knowing that this is bad timing on top of a new staff, etc. Instead we have a guy who very few seem to have confidence in guiding the program the next two years ... so the feeling is almost hopeless.

The hope will have to wait I guess until the end of 2022. Until then, may the tailgate beers remain cold and sun continues to shine thru October.
I was secretly hoping she would clean house just so we could get a fresh perspective. And with that I would have expected a transition period for sure.

I wasn't sure I was expecting THIS bad with Albin, but I was just so apathetic toward the move that I just sighed and said, "ok, I guess."
Would have been awesome doing a nationwide coaching search for a head coach and 10 assistants in July. That is a sure way to get the best candidates.
Perhaps this fact played into the timing of Frank's announcement. There was no way we couldn't choose his preferred successor.
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Pete Chouteau
9/28/2021 5:06 PM
That's a wreckless allegation.
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bshot44
9/28/2021 9:48 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
One thing I ask on all this ... Would our fanbase be as upset if Cromer had cleaned house when Frank hung it up ... hired an interim or an outside coach with the understanding the program is in a transition?

I think what upsets me (and maybe many) is we knew this would be the outcome with Albin.

I, for one, would be less disappointed by 0-4 knowing that this is bad timing on top of a new staff, etc. Instead we have a guy who very few seem to have confidence in guiding the program the next two years ... so the feeling is almost hopeless.

The hope will have to wait I guess until the end of 2022. Until then, may the tailgate beers remain cold and sun continues to shine thru October.
I was secretly hoping she would clean house just so we could get a fresh perspective. And with that I would have expected a transition period for sure.

I wasn't sure I was expecting THIS bad with Albin, but I was just so apathetic toward the move that I just sighed and said, "ok, I guess."
Would have been awesome doing a nationwide coaching search for a head coach and 10 assistants in July. That is a sure way to get the best candidates.
I'm just going to assume you completely ignored the "... hired an interim ... " part.

Obviously no one expected a completely new, competent staff could be assembled in July. But thanks for hammering home that point.

Sigh.

An interim hire would have signified she was open to taking the program in a different direction. Maybe she wasn't "allowed" to do that because of previous promises bestowed upon Frank? I don't know. But what I do know is this is a disaster and she's accountable. We'll see how long until something is done to change the trajectory
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Jerry86
9/28/2021 10:34 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
One thing I ask on all this ... Would our fanbase be as upset if Cromer had cleaned house when Frank hung it up ... hired an interim or an outside coach with the understanding the program is in a transition?

I think what upsets me (and maybe many) is we knew this would be the outcome with Albin.

I, for one, would be less disappointed by 0-4 knowing that this is bad timing on top of a new staff, etc. Instead we have a guy who very few seem to have confidence in guiding the program the next two years ... so the feeling is almost hopeless.

The hope will have to wait I guess until the end of 2022. Until then, may the tailgate beers remain cold and sun continues to shine thru October.
I was secretly hoping she would clean house just so we could get a fresh perspective. And with that I would have expected a transition period for sure.

I wasn't sure I was expecting THIS bad with Albin, but I was just so apathetic toward the move that I just sighed and said, "ok, I guess."
Would have been awesome doing a nationwide coaching search for a head coach and 10 assistants in July. That is a sure way to get the best candidates.
I'm just going to assume you completely ignored the "... hired an interim ... " part.

Obviously no one expected a completely new, competent staff could be assembled in July. But thanks for hammering home that point.

Sigh.

An interim hire would have signified she was open to taking the program in a different direction. Maybe she wasn't "allowed" to do that because of previous promises bestowed upon Frank? I don't know. But what I do know is this is a disaster and she's accountable. We'll see how long until something is done to change the trajectory
lol. She's accountable? Are you on crack?

8 weeks before Syracuse and we hire a new head coach and staff? Really? Interim or not that is asinine. Further, we'd hire a nobody in July.

How the heck does the coach and his assistants get the guys ready when they have played for Solich and his guys for the past 1,2, or 3 years?
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bshot44
9/28/2021 10:54 PM
Jerry86 wrote:expand_more
One thing I ask on all this ... Would our fanbase be as upset if Cromer had cleaned house when Frank hung it up ... hired an interim or an outside coach with the understanding the program is in a transition?

I think what upsets me (and maybe many) is we knew this would be the outcome with Albin.

I, for one, would be less disappointed by 0-4 knowing that this is bad timing on top of a new staff, etc. Instead we have a guy who very few seem to have confidence in guiding the program the next two years ... so the feeling is almost hopeless.

The hope will have to wait I guess until the end of 2022. Until then, may the tailgate beers remain cold and sun continues to shine thru October.
I was secretly hoping she would clean house just so we could get a fresh perspective. And with that I would have expected a transition period for sure.

I wasn't sure I was expecting THIS bad with Albin, but I was just so apathetic toward the move that I just sighed and said, "ok, I guess."
Would have been awesome doing a nationwide coaching search for a head coach and 10 assistants in July. That is a sure way to get the best candidates.
I'm just going to assume you completely ignored the "... hired an interim ... " part.

Obviously no one expected a completely new, competent staff could be assembled in July. But thanks for hammering home that point.

Sigh.

An interim hire would have signified she was open to taking the program in a different direction. Maybe she wasn't "allowed" to do that because of previous promises bestowed upon Frank? I don't know. But what I do know is this is a disaster and she's accountable. We'll see how long until something is done to change the trajectory
lol. She's accountable? Are you on crack?

8 weeks before Syracuse and we hire a new head coach and staff? Really? Interim or not that is asinine. Further, we'd hire a nobody in July.

How the heck does the coach and his assistants get the guys ready when they have played for Solich and his guys for the past 1,2, or 3 years?
She gave Albin a 4-yr contract with a 2-yr $1.1M guarantee. That's a larger base salary than Frank ever had.

So yeah. She's accountable.

She could have easily slapped an interim tag on him or anyone else on that staff signifying that she's ready to move in a different direction if they don't prove themselves.

She didn't. So yeah. She's accountable.

Maybe she wasn't allowed to go the interim route based off previous promises. I can buy that. But she paid him $1.1M guaranteed!

So yes. She. Is. Accountable.

But yeah. I'm on crack for holding the AD accountable for the decision of paying an unqualified guy more money than Ohio has ever paid a football coach in school history.

GTFOH.
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cc-cat
9/28/2021 10:59 PM
Giving him only 2 years guaranteed (with the first fast approaching when Frank stepped down in July) is a contractual way of saying "interim"
Last Edited: 9/28/2021 11:00:20 PM by cc-cat
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bshot44
9/28/2021 11:03 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
Giving him only 2 years guaranteed (with the first fast approaching when Frank stepped down in July) is a contractual way of saying "interim"
The damage done in 2 years could be colossal. One year & there's a fighting chance to keep from sinking
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ou79
9/28/2021 11:14 PM
Uh not sure if Jerry was being serious but what makes this entire thing hard to accept is that even though Albin is a new HC, both he and the bulk of his staff have been here for years and the recruits are all theirs. This is not the case of bringing in someone from the outside who knew little or nothing about either how Frank ran his program or who the players were. If Albin was truly HC material, this year should have been a continuation of what the program had been doing for basically the last 17 years. Clearly we are on a greased slide to disaster.
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bshot44
9/28/2021 11:22 PM
ou79 wrote:expand_more
Uh not sure if Jerry was being serious but what makes this entire thing hard to accept is that even though Albin is a new HC, both he and the bulk of his staff have been here for years and the recruits are all theirs. This is not the case of bringing in someone from the outside who knew little or nothing about either how Frank ran his program or who the players were. If Albin was truly HC material, this year should have been a continuation of what the program had been doing for basically the last 17 years. Clearly we are on a greased slide to disaster.
Exxxxxxactly!
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BillyTheCat
9/29/2021 8:42 AM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
One thing I ask on all this ... Would our fanbase be as upset if Cromer had cleaned house when Frank hung it up ... hired an interim or an outside coach with the understanding the program is in a transition?

I think what upsets me (and maybe many) is we knew this would be the outcome with Albin.

I, for one, would be less disappointed by 0-4 knowing that this is bad timing on top of a new staff, etc. Instead we have a guy who very few seem to have confidence in guiding the program the next two years ... so the feeling is almost hopeless.

The hope will have to wait I guess until the end of 2022. Until then, may the tailgate beers remain cold and sun continues to shine thru October.
I was secretly hoping she would clean house just so we could get a fresh perspective. And with that I would have expected a transition period for sure.

I wasn't sure I was expecting THIS bad with Albin, but I was just so apathetic toward the move that I just sighed and said, "ok, I guess."
Would have been awesome doing a nationwide coaching search for a head coach and 10 assistants in July. That is a sure way to get the best candidates.
I'm just going to assume you completely ignored the "... hired an interim ... " part.

Obviously no one expected a completely new, competent staff could be assembled in July. But thanks for hammering home that point.

Sigh.

An interim hire would have signified she was open to taking the program in a different direction. Maybe she wasn't "allowed" to do that because of previous promises bestowed upon Frank? I don't know. But what I do know is this is a disaster and she's accountable. We'll see how long until something is done to change the trajectory
YOU completely miss that I was replying to GoCats who said we should have cleaned house in July! My comments did not even refer to your "interm" tag! Not sure how you took it as such, but that is your perogative.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
9/29/2021 11:42 AM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
I'm just going to assume you completely ignored the "... hired an interim ... " part.

Obviously no one expected a completely new, competent staff could be assembled in July. But thanks for hammering home that point.

Sigh.

An interim hire would have signified she was open to taking the program in a different direction. Maybe she wasn't "allowed" to do that because of previous promises bestowed upon Frank? I don't know. But what I do know is this is a disaster and she's accountable. We'll see how long until something is done to change the trajectory
There were no good options. To recap:

1. There wasn't time for a new search.
2. A promise may have been made to Frank that he be allowed to name his successor.
3. The 'interim' tag may have led to recruits and players bolting

What is effectively a two year deal for Albin's actually as close to an ideal outcome as we could have hoped for, given the circumstances. Had we gone the interim route (and it's not clear that was even a possibility) and recruits/players left, people here would be blaming Cromer for that decision. Instead, she opted for stability but got a quick turnaround opt-out.
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El Gato Roberto
9/29/2021 3:34 PM
I’m not going to play shoulda-woulda…that disaster has set sail and is sinking…but I will acknowledge that she IS accountable from this moment forward. I’ll be interested to see if she can arrange a buy-out and start the re-boot next season. It’s on her and I hope that she can rise to the challenge.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
9/29/2021 4:48 PM
El Gato Roberto wrote:expand_more
I’m not going to play shoulda-woulda…that disaster has set sail and is sinking…but I will acknowledge that she IS accountable from this moment forward. I’ll be interested to see if she can arrange a buy-out and start the re-boot next season. It’s on her and I hope that she can rise to the challenge.
We're in the middle of a budget crisis and have a football program that was completely irrelevant even when the best coach in the history of the university was at the helm. Spending an extra 500k on a buyout, when (as Billy pointed out) we're already paying both Albin and Solich as is, would be a ridiculous decision.

What do we gain from that, exactly? We do that to be one year closer to losing more money by going to some bowl game nobody cares about and which has no national significance?

Continuing to dump money into trying to compete at this level makes no sense for the University. I just don't get this viewpoint.
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Jerry86
9/29/2021 5:18 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
One thing I ask on all this ... Would our fanbase be as upset if Cromer had cleaned house when Frank hung it up ... hired an interim or an outside coach with the understanding the program is in a transition?

I think what upsets me (and maybe many) is we knew this would be the outcome with Albin.

I, for one, would be less disappointed by 0-4 knowing that this is bad timing on top of a new staff, etc. Instead we have a guy who very few seem to have confidence in guiding the program the next two years ... so the feeling is almost hopeless.

The hope will have to wait I guess until the end of 2022. Until then, may the tailgate beers remain cold and sun continues to shine thru October.
I was secretly hoping she would clean house just so we could get a fresh perspective. And with that I would have expected a transition period for sure.

I wasn't sure I was expecting THIS bad with Albin, but I was just so apathetic toward the move that I just sighed and said, "ok, I guess."
Would have been awesome doing a nationwide coaching search for a head coach and 10 assistants in July. That is a sure way to get the best candidates.
I'm just going to assume you completely ignored the "... hired an interim ... " part.

Obviously no one expected a completely new, competent staff could be assembled in July. But thanks for hammering home that point.

Sigh.

An interim hire would have signified she was open to taking the program in a different direction. Maybe she wasn't "allowed" to do that because of previous promises bestowed upon Frank? I don't know. But what I do know is this is a disaster and she's accountable. We'll see how long until something is done to change the trajectory
lol. She's accountable? Are you on crack?

8 weeks before Syracuse and we hire a new head coach and staff? Really? Interim or not that is asinine. Further, we'd hire a nobody in July.

How the heck does the coach and his assistants get the guys ready when they have played for Solich and his guys for the past 1,2, or 3 years?
She gave Albin a 4-yr contract with a 2-yr $1.1M guarantee. That's a larger base salary than Frank ever had.

So yeah. She's accountable.

She could have easily slapped an interim tag on him or anyone else on that staff signifying that she's ready to move in a different direction if they don't prove themselves.

She didn't. So yeah. She's accountable.

Maybe she wasn't allowed to go the interim route based off previous promises. I can buy that. But she paid him $1.1M guaranteed!

So yes. She. Is. Accountable.

But yeah. I'm on crack for holding the AD accountable for the decision of paying an unqualified guy more money than Ohio has ever paid a football coach in school history.

GTFOH.
Giving him one year would have been laughable. Great for recruiting, right? And the price tag for a new head coach is what it is. She did NOT commit to paying him 4 years. Go take a Contract Law course.
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El Gato Roberto
9/29/2021 5:51 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I’m not going to play shoulda-woulda…that disaster has set sail and is sinking…but I will acknowledge that she IS accountable from this moment forward. I’ll be interested to see if she can arrange a buy-out and start the re-boot next season. It’s on her and I hope that she can rise to the challenge.
We're in the middle of a budget crisis and have a football program that was completely irrelevant even when the best coach in the history of the university was at the helm. Spending an extra 500k on a buyout, when (as Billy pointed out) we're already paying both Albin and Solich as is, would be a ridiculous decision.

What do we gain from that, exactly? We do that to be one year closer to losing more money by going to some bowl game nobody cares about and which has no national significance?

Continuing to dump money into trying to compete at this level makes no sense for the University. I just don't get this viewpoint.
I didn’t say “dump money”…I said “arrange a buyout”. Maybe there’s a creative solution? Leaders find ways to get stuff done that aren’t obvious to the rest of us.
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MonroeClassmate
9/29/2021 8:30 PM
As for the AD, at the end of the season, she will be in the same position which she wanted the program to avoid and that is having a lame duck coach. A one year and gone was simply delayed 12 months because if he does not quit, he is then an interim coach for 2022.

How is recruiting going at the end of September compared to other ends of Septembers in recent years? How many HS players are attending games? Is recruiting showing any ill effects to a new coach and an OH and fOUr start?

Go OHIO pound the ZIPS!
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BobcatLackey2017
9/29/2021 9:52 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
While your point is fair, and pretty accurate, the point he makes and others feel, is that this program had developed a stagnant feel before Albin.
This is the outcome you get when your program's been so bad historically that the university and fanbase were willing to celebrate mediocrity as success for two decades.

We won zero MAC championships. We got some participation trophies at shitty bowl games. Last year there was a debate on this board about the biggest win in OU football history, and the conclusion reached was that it was beating a sub-par Pitt team in Solich's first game. People here, with a straight face, insisted it was bigger than the basketball team's many NCAA tournament wins.

Programs and organizations set the bar for themselves. We set it very low for ourselves. This is what happens when you do that.

Now, in our defense, we're competing at a level we're not able to compete at. So there are external factors competing against us. But that doesn't excuse the fact that the fanbase made an implicit promise to treat mediocrity as success for a very, very long time. What we've learned is that you fall to irrelevance from mediocrity very quickly. Had we actually been successful, the fall would take longer.
When you say that we are competing at a level we aren’t able to compete at you are 1,000% correct. It was explained to me that a huge factor in recruiting is “schools in between”. So if you are trying to get a kid from Northwestern Ohio for instance then they have to drive past Toledo, BG, and Miami. You want a kid from Cleveland then they drive past Kent and Akron. So they factor that into their decision making process because they want their mom and dad to come see them play on Saturdays and it’s way more convenient. Frank at least gave us the Nebraska connection and was a big enough name that out of state guys parents knew who he was at Nebraska. I am almost certain we are going to lose that “in”. I can’t imagine how things are going to look going forward in terms of recruiting unless we get a big name. I saw someone in a post weeks ago mention Will Healy from Charlotte but that’s not even realistic because of the pay cut to begin with. He’s making $750,000 there and I don’t think he’s worth half of that to begin with. We need someone who is tenured as a coach with a name who probably screwed up a little along the way to begin to get us back on track. I think Albin is great as a person but a former stud for us told me last week that guys just don’t want to do it for him the way they would when Frank was watching. I think that’s a ridiculous justification but apparently that’s how these guys view it.
Last Edited: 9/29/2021 9:53:17 PM by BobcatLackey2017
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ytownbobcat
9/30/2021 11:09 AM
Does anyone know the terms of Franks new position as assistant to the AD?
FWIW I don't think any coach has the right to name his successor. Under the circumstances it was necessary due to the timing.
Since it is all public funds, there should be some disclosure or confirmation of Franks cardiac condition. Yes I have heard of Hippa and privacy but 2 Million dollars of state money had to be reallocated due to the condition. I think transparency in these situations is the best policy for the long term credibility for our athletic program.
I remember when Urban Meyer has a brain cyst which was the basis of his OSU departure. Don't hear much about that anymore.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
9/30/2021 11:59 AM
ytownbobcat wrote:expand_more
Does anyone know the terms of Franks new position as assistant to the AD?
FWIW I don't think any coach has the right to name his successor. Under the circumstances it was necessary due to the timing.
Since it is all public funds, there should be some disclosure or confirmation of Franks cardiac condition. Yes I have heard of Hippa and privacy but 2 Million dollars of state money had to be reallocated due to the condition. I think transparency in these situations is the best policy for the long term credibility for our athletic program.
I remember when Urban Meyer has a brain cyst which was the basis of his OSU departure. Don't hear much about that anymore.
I don't think it's a question of a "right to name his successor." I think it's more that Frank had the leverage to do so. He's dangling a substantial donation in front of the athletic department, and there are also important optics about how you treat your 18 year coach on his way out the door.

Albin was Frank's guy, and Albin got the job. I suspect there's no circumstance under which he wouldn't have.
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OU_Country
9/30/2021 12:04 PM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
If he returns, Albin is going to have to look at how to inject new ideas and life into the program. Staying at the status quo in terms of the staff and systems isn't going to work.
Coach Albin is 56.
He has been using pretty much the same offensive coaching
scheme his entire time here.

As they say "the leopard can't change his spots".
Even if he wanted to,I don't think it would be easy for Coach Albin to "inject
new ideas and life into the program".
Fair point. I just can't imagine trying to sell this, the way things are right now, to ticket holders and Bobcat Club members for a second time starting next summer of 2022. If they retain him (based on the first 4 games this year), something has to change, and to me, the AD should be demanding that change.
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BillyTheCat
9/30/2021 12:09 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Does anyone know the terms of Franks new position as assistant to the AD?
FWIW I don't think any coach has the right to name his successor. Under the circumstances it was necessary due to the timing.
Since it is all public funds, there should be some disclosure or confirmation of Franks cardiac condition. Yes I have heard of Hippa and privacy but 2 Million dollars of state money had to be reallocated due to the condition. I think transparency in these situations is the best policy for the long term credibility for our athletic program.
I remember when Urban Meyer has a brain cyst which was the basis of his OSU departure. Don't hear much about that anymore.
I don't think it's a question of a "right to name his successor." I think it's more that Frank had the leverage to do so. He's dangling a substantial donation in front of the athletic department, and there are also important optics about how you treat your 18 year coach on his way out the door.

Albin was Frank's guy, and Albin got the job. I suspect there's no circumstance under which he wouldn't have.
What donation is Frank dangling infront of anyone? His role is to help raise money, but you'd have to show me where he's preparing his own sizeable gift.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
9/30/2021 1:08 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Does anyone know the terms of Franks new position as assistant to the AD?
FWIW I don't think any coach has the right to name his successor. Under the circumstances it was necessary due to the timing.
Since it is all public funds, there should be some disclosure or confirmation of Franks cardiac condition. Yes I have heard of Hippa and privacy but 2 Million dollars of state money had to be reallocated due to the condition. I think transparency in these situations is the best policy for the long term credibility for our athletic program.
I remember when Urban Meyer has a brain cyst which was the basis of his OSU departure. Don't hear much about that anymore.
I don't think it's a question of a "right to name his successor." I think it's more that Frank had the leverage to do so. He's dangling a substantial donation in front of the athletic department, and there are also important optics about how you treat your 18 year coach on his way out the door.

Albin was Frank's guy, and Albin got the job. I suspect there's no circumstance under which he wouldn't have.
What donation is Frank dangling infront of anyone? His role is to help raise money, but you'd have to show me where he's preparing his own sizeable gift.
My bad, must have misinterpreted. Either way, the leverage stands.
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A-townBound
9/30/2021 2:34 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Does anyone know the terms of Franks new position as assistant to the AD?
FWIW I don't think any coach has the right to name his successor. Under the circumstances it was necessary due to the timing.
Since it is all public funds, there should be some disclosure or confirmation of Franks cardiac condition. Yes I have heard of Hippa and privacy but 2 Million dollars of state money had to be reallocated due to the condition. I think transparency in these situations is the best policy for the long term credibility for our athletic program.
I remember when Urban Meyer has a brain cyst which was the basis of his OSU departure. Don't hear much about that anymore.
I don't think it's a question of a "right to name his successor." I think it's more that Frank had the leverage to do so. He's dangling a substantial donation in front of the athletic department, and there are also important optics about how you treat your 18 year coach on his way out the door.

Albin was Frank's guy, and Albin got the job. I suspect there's no circumstance under which he wouldn't have.
What donation is Frank dangling infront of anyone? His role is to help raise money, but you'd have to show me where he's preparing his own sizeable gift.
My bad, must have misinterpreted. Either way, the leverage stands.
I got the impression here, around the 35 min mark, that he was in negations with Julie (when he mentioned arm wrestling with her) concerning a donation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJmBY5m4c-4&t=2s
Last Edited: 9/30/2021 2:34:44 PM by A-townBound
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