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Topic: If Boo can't throw and Bates can't play, get Tettleton in
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Pataskala
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Posted: 9/11/2010 10:35 PM
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Tonight's game was the most frustrating since Solich took charge.  The biggest "offensive" play for OU was a pass interference on Toledo.  This was embarrassing.  I really got tired of pass plays no more than four yards downfield.  I'm still for Boo but if his arm isn't well enough to get the ball downfield, they need to get somebody in there who can keep the defenses honest with an occasional long pass.  If Bates was too hurt, then Tettleton should have been given a shot.  He couldn't have done any worse.  With Brazill fumbling around, the prospects for the season have suddenly become bleak.  We're now looking at 1-3 for September with Eastern and Akron as the only two real prospects for wins the rest of the season. Unless things change, next week's game is going to be brutal.  I'll match our defense against OSU's offense, but not if they have to be on the field 35 or 40 minutes.
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Posted: 9/11/2010 10:39 PM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
Tonight's game was the most frustrating since Solich took charge.  The biggest "offensive" play for OU was a pass interference on Toledo.  This was embarrassing.  I really got tired of pass plays no more than four yards downfield.  I'm still for Boo but if his arm isn't well enough to get the ball downfield, they need to get somebody in there who can keep the defenses honest with an occasional long pass.  If Bates was too hurt, then Tettleton should have been given a shot.  He couldn't have done any worse.  With Brazill fumbling around, the prospects for the season have suddenly become bleak.  We're now looking at 1-3 for September with Eastern and Akron as the only two real prospects for wins the rest of the season. Unless things change, next week's game is going to be brutal.  I'll match our defense against OSU's offense, but not if they have to be on the field 35 or 40 minutes.


In other news...the sky continues to fall.  More at 11..
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Posted: 9/11/2010 10:41 PM
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Alumni complain because the students do not go to the game, but maybe they are getting tired of this kind of outcome. They filled the stands when Frank first got there, but uninspired football does not make anyone want to spend their day or evening watching a death match. Hopefully things get better in a hurry and they beat the teams they need to down the stretch like the basketball team did last year.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 9/12/2010 3:55 AM
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I've posted time and again about how important it is for the 'Cats to have a season in which they start off smokin' so we can get the OHIO faithful set afire.  This year was gonna be a great chance for that.

Good-bye this year.  No matter what we do from here on out the stain of tonight cannot be eradicated.

We lost to Toledo.  Unbelievable.
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Posted: 9/12/2010 9:40 AM
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Monroe Slavin, CPA wrote:expand_more
I've posted time and again about how important it is for the 'Cats to have a season in which they start off smokin' so we can get the OHIO faithful set afire.  This year was gonna be a great chance for that.

Good-bye this year.  No matter what we do from here on out the stain of tonight cannot be eradicated.

We lost to Toledo.  Unbelievable.


Do you think the NCAA might offer an exemption or something that will allow Ohio to forgo the rest of the season?  To get some rest and get ready for next year.  It would be an unprecedented step of course but in Ohio's case it's merited.  I mean this was a seven point loss against a conference foe.  What's the point in continuing to play football?

Seriously: Ohio played its worst game in probably a couple years and only lost by seven.  That's not terrible.  Things do need to be fixed.  What needs to be done?  I don't pretend to really know, but Solich, Albin, and Gdowski need to focus the offense and find something that works.  The coaching must be better but ultimately the onus is on the players.  The offense's rudderless performance last night is unsurprising when you consider that all four of the team captains are on the defense.  It's time for someone on the offense -- and the OL in particular -- to step up and lead this team.
Last Edited: 9/12/2010 9:43:12 AM by Cats-22
bobcatgrad
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Posted: 9/12/2010 10:12 AM
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I think our coaching staff and the talent of our players is plenty good enough that it is way too early to give up on this team after one poor performance. We had a bad game in 2006 against Bowling Green and last year with Kent, but both times players stepped up and took control and we finished strong. If our past history means anything at all, I know that we can at the very least salvage something out of this season. The players certainly sounded like they had plenty of drive to do much more than that before it started.

I do also at the same time agree with Monroe though in that we need to have consistent winning seasons if we want to pick up more loyal long term fans. That is one of the reasons why it hurts to have a bad loss like this at this point in the season. Hopefully here too, we can bounce back and make this game a distant memory like our token bad games of seasons past.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 9/12/2010 12:28 PM
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What needs to be done?  That is a very fair question.  Anyone can criticize; providing solutions is what's compelling.

Run the hurry-up occasionally to keep the oppo off stride.  Put our qb under center at times and/or run two back sets at times.  Run no back sets at times.  Throw to the tight end.  Run Boykin and Brown.  Fake an end around and, instead, pitch/run an option to the side that the play is starting toward.  Quick rumble slant to the tight end.  If problems protecting the qb, roll the pocket to one side or the other.

Did we do any of this yesterday?  I imagine that we can preserve the above quick/top-of-my-head list and bring it out after each game because we keep not doing any of the above.  This coaching staff is on pretty thin ice with me, at least as far as offense goes.

Remember 'we haven't the money so we have to think?'  Now it's 'we haven't the O-line talent/experience/depth so we have to think.'
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Posted: 9/12/2010 12:34 PM
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Monroe, remember that one football discussion (whoa!) we had in the offseason regarding running backs & fullbacks? Nothing has changed. We continue to run the same plays with an undersized running back. No lead blocking back in sight. Of course, it would help if we could actually run plays out of 3rd and short instead of third and long as a result of penalties.
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Posted: 9/12/2010 12:37 PM
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Agree--more stuff that is a result first and foremost of the (in)ability of the coaching staff to think.  We appear to have the physical talent.  Boykin is certainly not under-sized.  Dallas Brown, though short, is stout.  We were 3 of 13 on 3rd down situations.

Against Toledo.

The answer is most likely Snyder, save for inexperience and would he get killed under pass rush.

More 'thinking' stuff we might try:  end around turning into a pass by the end or option pitch to a running back who passes it.  Yeah, these are gimmicky.  But if you do them only once or twice a season and you have a good receiving corps and coach your guys to throw it away if nothing's there, then you might pull off a big play against such as Toledo stinks.
Last Edited: 9/12/2010 12:54:59 PM by Monroe Slavin
Your Name
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Posted: 9/12/2010 12:55 PM
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Boykin and Brown definitely fit the mold of a back w/ size. However, what good is it if they aren't getting the call on some carries. It really makes no difference who is playing QB if we aren't trying to establish any form of a running game.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 9/12/2010 2:03 PM
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Watching Tenn v. Oakland...searching for Mitchell...Tenn fakes pitch left, qb rolls out right and completes long pass for td.  Again, that was coaching, a wrinkle that caught the d. offguard.
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Posted: 9/12/2010 2:24 PM
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Well, to be quite honest with you all, that was one of the worst QB performances since we were treated to Bower a few years ago. Boo through behind the receivers and nearly ever slant pattern and usually the throws were low (knees or lower). His vision was very limited, often locking onto a receiver across the middle and ignoring guys on the edges. His one shining moment of the night was the TD in the 1st half that looked like a botched QB draw where the hole closed and he was forced to drop back. Somehow #15 got open and luckely Boo looked up and found him.
Additionally, the play calling was atrocious. I know that sounds like I am beating the same dead horse that we all have for years, but why the hell were we obsessed with running between the tackles and throwing slants across the field. Our receivers usually had a few steps on deep routes against Toledo last night and yet we still would run a sweep or a wide receiver screen on 3rd and 8.
Some major changes and soul searching needs to happen before next week if we don't want to get absolutely manhandled.
John C. Wanamaker
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Posted: 9/12/2010 2:41 PM
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Monroe Slavin, CPA wrote:expand_more
Agree--more stuff that is a result first and foremost of the (in)ability of the coaching staff to think.  We appear to have the physical talent.  Boykin is certainly not under-sized.  Dallas Brown, though short, is stout.  We were 3 of 13 on 3rd down situations.

Against Toledo.

The answer is most likely Snyder, save for inexperience and would he get killed under pass rush.

More 'thinking' stuff we might try:  end around turning into a pass by the end or option pitch to a running back who passes it.  Yeah, these are gimmicky.  But if you do them only once or twice a season and you have a good receiving corps and coach your guys to throw it away if nothing's there, then you might pull off a big play against such as Toledo stinks.


I have asked this question many times before, where are we "evaluating" the "physical talent".  The running back corps lacks any proven talent, and I am going to say the coaches are putting the guys on the field who know the assignments, the checks, are the best in given situations.  We love to take guys who have never done anything and hold them up like they have soooo much talent, and they are not even in the rotation.  If they were so talented, wouldn't they be in the rotation?
John C. Wanamaker
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Posted: 9/12/2010 2:43 PM
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OU-Barker wrote:expand_more
Well, to be quite honest with you all, that was one of the worst QB performances since we were treated to Bower a few years ago. Boo through behind the receivers and nearly ever slant pattern and usually the throws were low (knees or lower). His vision was very limited, often locking onto a receiver across the middle and ignoring guys on the edges. His one shining moment of the night was the TD in the 1st half that looked like a botched QB draw where the hole closed and he was forced to drop back. Somehow #15 got open and luckely Boo looked up and found him.
Additionally, the play calling was atrocious. I know that sounds like I am beating the same dead horse that we all have for years, but why the hell were we obsessed with running between the tackles and throwing slants across the field. Our receivers usually had a few steps on deep routes against Toledo last night and yet we still would run a sweep or a wide receiver screen on 3rd and 8.
Some major changes and soul searching needs to happen before next week if we don't want to get absolutely manhandled.


Those would be crossing patterns, not slants.
Joe McKinley
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Posted: 9/12/2010 2:46 PM
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I'm not a football coach, but I saw the Rockets playing a lot of cover 2 and only putting six guys in the box in our three wide sets. They also have smaller rush ends and used them to drop into eight man coverage.To me, that says establish the run, especially between the tackles.
John C. Wanamaker
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Posted: 9/12/2010 2:49 PM
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Yes Joe, very astute observations, you have to be able to run the football.
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Posted: 9/12/2010 2:54 PM
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I just took a look at the defensive stats and I think Toledo's starting safeties had 1 tackle and 2 assists combined. Our guys had 9 combined. Different defensive philosophies. Toledo wanted to make us drive the length of the field. Last night, we didn't do it.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 9/12/2010 3:25 PM
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John C. Wanamaker wrote:expand_more
Agree--more stuff that is a result first and foremost of the (in)ability of the coaching staff to think.  We appear to have the physical talent.  Boykin is certainly not under-sized.  Dallas Brown, though short, is stout.  We were 3 of 13 on 3rd down situations.

Against Toledo.

The answer is most likely Snyder, save for inexperience and would he get killed under pass rush.

More 'thinking' stuff we might try:  end around turning into a pass by the end or option pitch to a running back who passes it.  Yeah, these are gimmicky.  But if you do them only once or twice a season and you have a good receiving corps and coach your guys to throw it away if nothing's there, then you might pull off a big play against such as Toledo stinks.


I have asked this question many times before, where are we "evaluating" the "physical talent".  The running back corps lacks any proven talent, and I am going to say the coaches are putting the guys on the field who know the assignments, the checks, are the best in given situations.  We love to take guys who have never done anything and hold them up like they have soooo much talent, and they are not even in the rotation.  If they were so talented, wouldn't they be in the rotation?


Good point.  The coaches have a great grasp on the situation and are rather infallible.  Don't second guess them.  That what we're doing on the field is el stinko should not be a factor.  Keep on doing the same thing since it's working so well.
John C. Wanamaker
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Posted: 9/12/2010 4:27 PM
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Monroe Slavin, CPA wrote:expand_more
Agree--more stuff that is a result first and foremost of the (in)ability of the coaching staff to think.  We appear to have the physical talent.  Boykin is certainly not under-sized.  Dallas Brown, though short, is stout.  We were 3 of 13 on 3rd down situations.

Against Toledo.

The answer is most likely Snyder, save for inexperience and would he get killed under pass rush.

More 'thinking' stuff we might try:  end around turning into a pass by the end or option pitch to a running back who passes it.  Yeah, these are gimmicky.  But if you do them only once or twice a season and you have a good receiving corps and coach your guys to throw it away if nothing's there, then you might pull off a big play against such as Toledo stinks.


I have asked this question many times before, where are we "evaluating" the "physical talent".  The running back corps lacks any proven talent, and I am going to say the coaches are putting the guys on the field who know the assignments, the checks, are the best in given situations.  We love to take guys who have never done anything and hold them up like they have soooo much talent, and they are not even in the rotation.  If they were so talented, wouldn't they be in the rotation?


Good point.  The coaches have a great grasp on the situation and are rather infallible.  Don't second guess them.  That what we're doing on the field is el stinko should not be a factor.  Keep on doing the same thing since it's working so well.


In other words Monroe, you are saying the coaches are trying to lose?  We are 1-1, the season is not over.
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Posted: 9/12/2010 4:30 PM
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Monroe Slavin, CPA wrote:expand_more
More 'thinking' stuff we might try:  end around turning into a pass by the end or option pitch to a running back who passes it.  Yeah, these are gimmicky.  But if you do them only once or twice a season and you have a good receiving corps and coach your guys to throw it away if nothing's there, then you might pull off a big play against such as Toledo stinks.


I'm with you on adding wrinkles to our offense to make the D think a little bit. Gimmick plays, on the other hand, aren't going to turn around the offense. See lack of YPC from WR running the ball as a good example. Big plays often come from running your plays with precision.
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Posted: 9/12/2010 4:42 PM
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Here is an off the wall question, Monroe, you admit that you didn't even watch the game, so how do you know what is going on?  What is being done, what is not being done?  You have 0 exposure to this team this year and yet you are an expert.  I guess that's what being a "supporting level" member of the OBC gets you.
Last Edited: 9/12/2010 4:43:06 PM by John C. Wanamaker
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 9/12/2010 11:17 PM
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Wanny--stop reading what you want into it.  I write what I write, not what you want to think that I write.  Box score says no Boykin, no Brown and no catches by any TE.  Did we do hurry up?  I assume not and no one's refuted.  I did see most of the first game.  I never said that the coaches are trying to lose--only achieving it.

You are like arguing with a wall.  You never concede when you're wrong, you never modify a point of view based on facts/reality.

YN--yes gimmicks can't be the heart of your offense.  But mebbe could work for us if used judiciously, giving us a physical and mental edge for a play or two a game.  I'm guessing the mental part of our game needs addressing.  I'm disappointed but hope our players are fighting mad.
bobcatgrad
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Posted: 9/13/2010 6:37 AM
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Your Name wrote:expand_more
Monroe, remember that one football discussion (whoa!) we had in the offseason regarding running backs & fullbacks? Nothing has changed. We continue to run the same plays with an undersized running back. No lead blocking back in sight. Of course, it would help if we could actually run plays out of 3rd and short instead of third and long as a result of penalties.


I was under the impression that Vince was the best at pass pro and catching hence him getting more of the reps. They brought Boykin in one time against Wofford on a goal line situation to play his strength against Wofford and we still did not get the touchdown against an FCS team. I think that is why they went back to Vince against Toledo because of his versatility and he did complete a nice looking catch until they tried to run the same play again and it almost got intercepted.
Last Edited: 9/13/2010 6:38:44 AM by bobcatgrad
John C. Wanamaker
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Posted: 9/13/2010 7:30 AM
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Monroe your problem is you are a grab bagger, you just want to keep pulling things out till you stumble upon one that works.  That does not work in the field of coaching, you must have a plan, you must prepare and you put the players in the position that you think gives them the best opportunities to win.  That being said, Ohio did have chances to win the game on Saturday, at some point in time players have to make plays.  How many times did we get Brazill on the corner with a quick pass and put him in a 1 on 1 situation?  Several, how many times did he make his man miss?  Zero.  How many times did we get the Running back on the edge, only for him not to break a tackle and make him miss?  few.  Coaches will make mistakes, players will make mistakes, however at the end of the day the coaches are doing what they feel is best for the team, to give the team the best chance at success.  Players have to make plays.
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Posted: 9/13/2010 8:16 AM
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My take on this game is the following;
1) We have tended to play down to our compition time and time again.
2) We obviously aren't that bad!
3) Was the team looking ahead?
We are all disappointed on many fronts. As we look forward after this weekend we tend to be negative. Was James Madison negative toward their chances on Saturday?
Let's take 1 game at a time.




GO BOBCATS
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