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Topic: Was it worth the money?
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Alan Swank
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Posted: 9/20/2010 9:59 PM
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DC, I could have predicted your response.  First in 2000, there were only 25 bowls, this past year there were 34 or 18 more teams getting in.  In 2000, only one MAC team made a bowl, this past year 4 got in.  Needless to say, we're comparing apples to oranges here.  Additionally, we have one divisional title and one co-title.  In 2000, there were no divisions and Marshall basically owned the MAC back then.  As for basketball, no one was talking about basketball but you.  It's a new board since the crash, so try again.
mcbin
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Posted: 9/20/2010 10:02 PM
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And I think most of us could have predicted your rebuttal, Alan. :)
Alan Swank
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Posted: 9/20/2010 10:31 PM
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Just trying to stick to the facts Ben.  Afterall, this is a new and improved board.
Mike Coleman
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Posted: 9/20/2010 10:36 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Just trying to stick to the facts Ben.  Afterall, this is a new and improved board.


Except your facts are wrong.

In 2000, there were divisions. Divisions started in 1997.

2009 MAC Championship Game

Central Michigan (MAC West) 20 - Ohio (MAC East) 10 - 2009 Championship preview

 

2008 MAC Championship Game

Buffalo (MAC East) 42 - Ball State (MAC West) 24 - 2008 Championship preview

 

2007 MAC Championship Game

Central Michigan (MAC West) 35 - Miami (MAC East) 10

 

2006 MAC Championship Game

Central Michigan (MAC West) 31 - Ohio (MAC East) 10

 

2005 MAC Championship Game

Akron (MAC East) 31 - Northern Illinois (MAC West) 30

 

2004 MAC Championship Game

Toledo (MAC West) 35 - Miami (MAC East) 27

 

2003 MAC Championship Game

Miami (MAC East) 49 - Bowling Green (MAC West) 27

 

2002 MAC Championship Game

Marshall (MAC East) 49 - Toledo (MAC West) 45

 

2001 MAC Championship Game

Toledo (MAC West) 41 - Marshall (MAC East) 36

 

2000 MAC Championship Game

Marshall (MAC East) 19 -
Western Michigan (MAC West) 14

 

1999 MAC Championship Game

Marshall (MAC East) 34 -
Western Michigan (MAC West) 30

 

1998 MAC Championship Game

Marshall (MAC East) 23 - Toledo (MAC West) 17

 

1997 MAC Championship Game

Marshall (MAC East) 31 - Toledo (MAC West) 13

Alan Swank
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Posted: 9/20/2010 10:46 PM
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I stand corrected on the divisons Mike, I'll hold on the other facts.  But as I said, Marshall pretty much owned the MAC back then.  Here's an interesing link to MAC playoff history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_Championship_Game
Last Edited: 9/20/2010 10:50:49 PM by Alan Swank
Athens
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Posted: 9/21/2010 1:12 AM
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Casper71 wrote:expand_more
This is a great question.  I was at the game Saturday wearing my green and white and came out asking myself the same question over and over.  My son...not an OU grad says you definitely take the money and go play another day.  I think I disagree.

Personally, I'd rather take half the money from a big ten team we could beat.  At least this year, i think Ball St and NIU had it right.  They probably got pretty good paydays and have people saying, "hey, they played a good game against a big ten team".  In general, I don't hink any of us really think we are on the same planet in football as those top 10-15 national programs.  That shouldn't be our goal, realistically. 

So, yes, I think instead of a drubbing, I'd take half the money for a better showing.


I thought about this a lot after watching us get clobbered. The occasional OSU beatdown does us little good. If Ohio played Ohio State 10 times in a row, 5 times we'd lose by a respectable margin and the other 5 times it would be a massacre. Ohio would be better served playing a BCS school where it could realistically win 30% of the time and be competitive 90% of the time. A true challenge for the program and not just a body bag paycheck. I'd like to see us sign a 10 game series with Georgia Tech for 500k annually. That would get the program into the Atlanta market for recruiting every year. McRae was from Georgia. GT is always ranked but they are the type of program Ohio can aspire to beat. Ohio has potential to be a top 20 program like WVU if we could land a couple of 4 star guys of the offensive side of the ball. WVU plays Maryland every year because they know they aren't a superpower program. WVU also plays East Carolina and Marshall. Ohio should take on that kind of philosophy realizing we are never going to see eye-to-eye with OSU aside from a a rare occasion. A non-conference schedule with Marshall, Navy, Georgia Tech plus Temple and Buffalo would give Ohio games up and down the East Coast for recruiting to go with the Midwestern MAC schools. I'm not really to excited about playing Purdue or Indiana when we've already have NIU and Ball State on the schedule. Ohio is technically in the Midwest but primarily looks east for recruits and students. A lot of Ohio alumni in the Bos-Was-Atl corridor to attend games. This way we have something to offer that the Ohio State doesn't in the way of name eastern schools on the schedule. I don't envy OSU and I wouldn't want to see our program copy anything they are doing with scheduling.
Bobcat36
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Posted: 9/21/2010 11:08 AM
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DublinCat wrote:expand_more
Yet, the past FIVE years have been the most successful five of the past forty plus years.  


DC, that would depend on how you define success.  If it's solely on record, your facts are a tad off.  In the time period you cite, we are a .500 ball club.  From 1996 - 2000, we were 31 and 25.  No MAC championships in that time period but none in the time frame you cite either.


The past five years have produced two bowl trips and two MAC East Titles.  Grobe never won a Division Title nor finish the regular season as a top two team.  I do not think the basketball team has come close to a regular season title since 1994.  Both MAC Tournament Titles were when we finished near the basement of the regular season.

The good news is the 850K can help pay for the lights and free ticket giveaways for the Baymont/Highlander Motel classic. 



Dublin,

Just thought I'd let you know this literally made me laugh out loud.  The Highlander is a scary scary place... 
Doc Bobcat
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Posted: 9/21/2010 11:14 AM
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Let's see......here's the deal:

a. You get to keep $850,000

2. We'll make sure that no member of your team is injured severely.

c. You can punch  Brutus in the face......tackle him..... and slap him/her/it in the nether regions.

Will you do it?


DublinCat
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Posted: 9/21/2010 5:21 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
DC, I could have predicted your response.  First in 2000, there were only 25 bowls, this past year there were 34 or 18 more teams getting in.  In 2000, only one MAC team made a bowl, this past year 4 got in.  Needless to say, we're comparing apples to oranges here.  Additionally, we have one divisional title and one co-title.  In 2000, there were no divisions and Marshall basically owned the MAC back then.  As for basketball, no one was talking about basketball but you.  It's a new board since the crash, so try again.


(Please read Mike Coleman post above)
DublinCat
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Posted: 9/21/2010 5:25 PM
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Doc Bobcat wrote:expand_more
Let's see......here's the deal:

a. You get to keep $850,000

2. We'll make sure that no member of your team is injured severely.

c. You can punch  Brutus in the face......tackle him..... and slap him/her/it in the nether regions.

Will you do it?


d. Pays for Alan's favorite Intramural Sports

Ohio69
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Posted: 9/21/2010 8:30 PM
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Wes wrote:expand_more
 The occasional OSU beatdown does us little good. If Ohio played Ohio State 10 times in a row, 5 times we'd lose by a respectable margin and the other 5 times it would be a massacre. Ohio would be better served playing a BCS school where it could realistically win 30% of the time and be competitive 90% of the time.


Wes - I get the overall point of your post.  But, I'm having trouble coming up with any reasons not to play OSU ten straight years in a row all in death star in Columbus.  Me thinks it would help more than hurt.


Casper71
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Posted: 9/23/2010 10:50 AM
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Again, this game shows what OUr team is routinely not...Top 10 in country.  If we play theosu 10 straight times and lose 43-7 in 8 of them and play two decent game are we prooving anything?  NO!  We are just collecting the $850k.  I'd still rather beatsomebody...a Purdue or Illinois or UCONN or any one of a number of teams and collect half the money. 
bobcat695
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Posted: 9/23/2010 2:04 PM
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Unfortunately, with the revenues Ohio needs, this is not always the right financial decision to make.  I expect to see a mix of both types of games in the future.  One huge money game each year represents a noticeable portion of the entire annual athletics budget.  Accepting half for a "beatable" BCS opponent is a $400,000 difference.  That is still a noticeable number.  I would guess that amount finances more than one of our entire olympic sports programs for a year.  Unless we endorse loss of scholarships to Bobcat athletes, this is a useless thread. 
AintBeenGood
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Posted: 9/23/2010 2:10 PM
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Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
 The occasional OSU beatdown does us little good. If Ohio played Ohio State 10 times in a row, 5 times we'd lose by a respectable margin and the other 5 times it would be a massacre. Ohio would be better served playing a BCS school where it could realistically win 30% of the time and be competitive 90% of the time.


Wes - I get the overall point of your post.  But, I'm having trouble coming up with any reasons not to play OSU ten straight years in a row all in death star in Columbus.  Me thinks it would help more than hurt.




How about 10 straight blow outs by tOSU. 
D.A.
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Posted: 9/23/2010 4:13 PM
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I vote no go:
  • I've attended every big money game since FL in 2002, and by far I have found the tOSU fandom/tailgate the least enjoyable. (if I didn't hear the original "nice Jets jersey" seventeen or more times I will eat my desk, and it's not even an insult unless I am missing something)
  • Selfishly, if I am traveling to Ohio for a game, I would MUCH rather go to Athens than Cbus.  I am from Lancaster, lived there for 23 years, and the "charm" of central Ohio is lost on me. (no offense)
  • Six other FBS teams in Ohio (plus one professional team BASED in Columbus and at least one pretty good FCS team) already recruit Ohio.
  • Several national articles have stated that the balance of power for producing HS talent has shifted south and west, so what recruiting benefits do we get from playing those guys in a market that is already highly recruited.
  • We need to develop an identity SEPARATE from tOSU, not in parallel, so let's stop suckling at the teat.
  • We can really only expect to get away with the Rufus tackle once without litigation.
So I vote one offs with UF, FSU, Miami (the other one), LSU, GT, UGA, Tenn, Texas, A&M (the other one), the Okies and anyone in the Carolinas.  Let's try to expand our exposure/recruiting base to where the talent is, and there isn't a plethora of other FBS school options to attend.

An example of this from a few years ago is Rutgers strategy.   I was living in Tampa in 2000 and for a two or three year span when they were transitioning from bad to respectable, Rutgers strategically started scheduling non-cons down south.  They also had a permanent billboard in Ybor City just east of Downtown Tampa on I-4 that promoted Rutgers team/tradition, and low and behold a bunch of really good recruits from FL started going to Rutgers.  And they started winning and gained respect.  Seems to have worked for them, so maybe we should think of employing something similar.

The added benefit is that these markets are nice potential long weekend destinations for alums so we could boost traveling attendance, the markets have cuter co-eds than Cbus, nicer people that aren't horses @$$3$ that will welcome you into their stadiums/tailgates, and they have nice, deep pockets from which they can hand over nice big wads of cash.

And for the record, if we are going to play someone ten years in a row, I vote Virginia Tech.  The classiest, nicest people...EVER, a lovely setting for football and they absolutely LOVE the 110.
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Posted: 9/23/2010 4:29 PM
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Casper71 wrote:expand_more
Again, this game shows what OUr team is routinely not...Top 10 in country.  If we play theosu 10 straight times and lose 43-7 in 8 of them and play two decent game are we prooving anything?  NO!  We are just collecting the $850k.  I'd still rather beatsomebody...a Purdue or Illinois or UCONN or any one of a number of teams and collect half the money. 


You're more apt to get recruits due to more exposure.  (there will be way more TV sets watching Ohio State vs. Ohio than Indiana vs. Ohio)

The money can be used to improve facilities (thus getting more recruits)

More recruits = better chance of winning
Buckeye Rican
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Posted: 9/23/2010 4:30 PM
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AintBeenGood wrote:expand_more
 The occasional OSU beatdown does us little good. If Ohio played Ohio State 10 times in a row, 5 times we'd lose by a respectable margin and the other 5 times it would be a massacre. Ohio would be better served playing a BCS school where it could realistically win 30% of the time and be competitive 90% of the time.


Wes - I get the overall point of your post.  But, I'm having trouble coming up with any reasons not to play OSU ten straight years in a row all in death star in Columbus.  Me thinks it would help more than hurt.




How about 10 straight blow outs by tOSU. 


I'd hardly call 2008 a blow out.
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Posted: 9/23/2010 4:42 PM
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Buckeye Rican wrote:expand_more
You're more apt to get recruits due to more exposure.  (there will be way more TV sets watching Ohio State vs. Ohio than Indiana vs. Ohio)


If you only want to recruit those who receive/purchase the Big Ten Network, then you are correct.  There are a lot of recruits that would consider Ohio that don't subscribe or that live in markets that don't get it for free with their cable package.  Plus, for your premise to be true, you have to essentially assume that OUR recruits are watching to see YOUR team, and they will end up defaulting to our team.  If they are tuning in to watch Ohio play Indiana, or any team for that matter, the only thing that matters is that the game is televised on ANYTHING. (internet/TV/etc)
Last Edited: 9/23/2010 4:51:50 PM by D.A.
Buckeye Rican
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Posted: 9/23/2010 4:55 PM
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D.A. wrote:expand_more
You're more apt to get recruits due to more exposure.  (there will be way more TV sets watching Ohio State vs. Ohio than Indiana vs. Ohio)


If you only want to recruit those who receive/purchase the Big Ten Network, then you are correct.  There are a lot of recruits that would consider Ohio that don't subscribe or that live in markets that don't get it for free with their cable package.  Plus, for your premise to be true, you have to essentially assume that OUR recruits are watching to see YOUR team, and they will end up defaulting to our team.  If they are tuning in to watch Ohio play Indiana, or any team for that matter, the only thing that matters is that the game is televised on ANYTHING. (internet/TV/etc)


In state is usually the best place to get recruits.  (even for Ohio State) but you can't assume every recruit will:
a: want to go to Ohio State
b: Ohio State wants them

there are a lot of factors involved in a recruits decision.  Immediate playing time can be a huge one.

Also not ever game is going to be on the Big10 Network.  The 2008 game was on ESPN.
Athens
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Posted: 9/23/2010 7:34 PM
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D.A. wrote:expand_more
  • We need to develop an identity SEPARATE from tOSU, not in parallel, so let's stop suckling at the teat.
So I vote one offs with UF, FSU, Miami (the other one), LSU, GT, UGA, Tenn, Texas, A&M (the other one), the Okies and anyone in the Carolinas.  Let's try to expand our exposure/recruiting base to where the talent is, and there isn't a plethora of other FBS school options to attend.


Great post across the board. The biggest concern I have with my 10 game series idea is will our fanbase burn out playing a GT or VT every year. The novelty of playing a rare game at LSU or Tenn is what drives fans to take that flight. I like having an FCS school at home and the Marshall series. I would like to add Navy to that as a comparable non-conference series which is only a 6 hour bus trip from Athens. Ohio probably has 25,000 alumni within a 3 hour drive of Annapolis. Then when Navy plays in Athens they'll bring out local armed services people in droves. Navy actually offered to play Ohio in Athens mid-week on ESPN but we declined (as we did with BC and Louisville). Then I would like to see money games @Texas, @Alabama, @LSU and just to be known as program that takes risks @Notre Dame, @USC. It needs to be something where recruits and fans say wow this is different. This is classy not OSU. That is what I've struggled with for years as a fan, what exactly is our program identity? The 110 is a band identity. Rufus has now earned infamy as a mascot.  I keep hearing requests on here to play a partial Big Ten schedule with our 4 OOC games against Indiana, Minnesota, Northwestern, Purdue. Those any Bobcat team should be expected to win. That is too conservative in my opinion. One game against at top 10 BCS power is worth 10 times more than 4 second tier Big Ten schools on the schedule. 
Athens
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Posted: 9/23/2010 7:45 PM
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Buckeye Rican wrote:expand_more
Again, this game shows what OUr team is routinely not...Top 10 in country.  If we play theosu 10 straight times and lose 43-7 in 8 of them and play two decent game are we prooving anything?  NO!  We are just collecting the $850k.  I'd still rather beatsomebody...a Purdue or Illinois or UCONN or any one of a number of teams and collect half the money. 


You're more apt to get recruits due to more exposure.  (there will be way more TV sets watching Ohio State vs. Ohio than Indiana vs. Ohio)

The money can be used to improve facilities (thus getting more recruits)

More recruits = better chance of winning


Rican, all Ohio needs for recruiting Columbus is to get the players to take an hour drive down to Peden Stadium and watch a game. It happens every home week. There is no way that Ohio is going to steal recruits away from OSU no matter if we beat them 10 years in a row. Its a lost cause. Its OSU and then everybody else which is how it has been for 100 years. Ohio is now signing a lot of players that don't make the cut for OSU from the talent rich Columbus/Cincinnati High Schools to a greater degree than other MAC schools. That is nice and ensures we'll be viable in the MAC but to compete nationally this program has got to get on a national schedule to attract recruits. Games against USC, Oregon, BYU, Texas, Oklahoma, LSU, Alabama, Florida, Tennessee, Georgia Tech Clemson, Virginia Tech, Penn State. That is what we need not more exposure for our students to Ohio State football.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 9/23/2010 9:29 PM
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You guys are in panic mode.  Of course we should play the evile villains as often as we can.

Yes, Saturday was a blow out.  But the last two times we played 'em was '99 and '08, right?  The '99 game was tight until at least early in the 2nd half and the '08 game we led into the 4th quarter.  So, if we have any kind of team, we can play with 'em.

The prob this year was a combo of O-line problems and, mostly, a weak-hearted offensive game plan.

I'm ready to play 'em again.  Are they on the '11 sched?!
Last Edited: 9/23/2010 9:30:38 PM by Monroe Slavin
Buckeye Rican
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Posted: 9/23/2010 9:45 PM
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Wes wrote:expand_more
Again, this game shows what OUr team is routinely not...Top 10 in country.  If we play theosu 10 straight times and lose 43-7 in 8 of them and play two decent game are we prooving anything?  NO!  We are just collecting the $850k.  I'd still rather beatsomebody...a Purdue or Illinois or UCONN or any one of a number of teams and collect half the money. 


You're more apt to get recruits due to more exposure.  (there will be way more TV sets watching Ohio State vs. Ohio than Indiana vs. Ohio)

The money can be used to improve facilities (thus getting more recruits)

More recruits = better chance of winning


Rican, all Ohio needs for recruiting Columbus is to get the players to take an hour drive down to Peden Stadium and watch a game. It happens every home week. There is no way that Ohio is going to steal recruits away from OSU no matter if we beat them 10 years in a row. Its a lost cause. Its OSU and then everybody else which is how it has been for 100 years. Ohio is now signing a lot of players that don't make the cut for OSU from the talent rich Columbus/Cincinnati High Schools to a greater degree than other MAC schools. That is nice and ensures we'll be viable in the MAC but to compete nationally this program has got to get on a national schedule to attract recruits. Games against USC, Oregon, BYU, Texas, Oklahoma, LSU, Alabama, Florida, Tennessee, Georgia Tech Clemson, Virginia Tech, Penn State. That is what we need not more exposure for our students to Ohio State football.


You're right.  If the choice was Ohio State and Ohio and both offered, the recruit would pick Ohio State.  But I wasn't just talking about competition between the two schools.  I was talking about Joe Schmoe, who's a 3 star recruit from Zanesville OH.  He's received offers from Marshall, Ohio, Miami (OH), and Akron.  He has a chance to watch on TV to see if he can make an impact on a team (because at this point he can't make on campus visits for some reason)  Out of those teams, if Ohio is playing Ohio state, which game do you think is going to be televised in his area?  Playing Ohio State gives you a higher probability of national exposure of the actual game.  Which may (or may not) help recruits judge their future decisions if they aren't receiving offers from the BCS conference teams. 
Casper71
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Posted: 9/23/2010 10:44 PM
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I like this discussion too but wait a minute...if we beat 4/5 Big Ten teams in a row people might actually think we could play in the big 10 (by the way...it's been a while or forever since a MAC team has done that).  To me, that is still much better than waiting for one year out of fifteen or twenty (if ever) to beat theosu!
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