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Topic: Let the budget fun begin! Round 1
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John C. Wanamaker
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Posted: 9/29/2010 4:32 PM
Bobcat Grad 86 wrote:expand_more
One element that is crippling State Budgets is Medicaid Spending which is normally one of the three largest state budget items.  In Virginia, it is 23% of the budget and rising.

Most States have about 13% of the Medicaid recipients accessing the system for chronic/long-term care, but they account for over 40% of the expenditures because of Medicaid planning.  When the truly poor including children receive acute care in the Medicaid system, the provider receives about 73 cents on the dollar for their actual cost since the Medicaid budget is in such bad shape.  Those losses are then transferred to private pay patients, then to the insurance company and then those costs are passed on in a variety of forms including reduce pay for employees, increased retail/wholesale prices or lower quality of goods and services.

Medicaid Planning is having a huge impact on state budgets and is hurting the funding for education.  Look no further than Speaker of the House Armond D. Budish who makes his money by helping wealthy clients artificially impoverish themselves so the tax payers can fund their care.
http://www.budishandsolomon.com/CM/EstatePlanning/Medicaid-Planning.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armond_Budish


Very true 86!  And to top things off here in Ohio, the funding models for education have been broken for a long long time and the politicians have played shell game politics and snubbed their nose at real change.
Voice of Reason
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Posted: 9/29/2010 4:36 PM
Many on the outside looking in think they know a lot more than they do.  While I'm sure Ohio University would prosper under your direction, Alan, forgive me not being quick to drink the Swank Kool-Aid.  There always seems to be a lot of bark and no proof of bite from that corner.

You were very quick to fire off at George when he was stating FACT!  If you remove the blinders, you will see that the struggle to attract talented candidates is a very obvious and public issue.  If you question that, please refer to the search for the Vice President of Finance and Administration.  While I love Athens, it is not exactly a budding metropolis and it is difficult to attract talented candidates, especially young talented candidates.

Now, I am not going to state my opinion as though it is the end all be all solution for the University's budget issues or act like I would be the greatest asset available to the university that is never used like you do.  However, I believe switching to the semester system is absolutely the right move.  Ohio University is one of a small number of universities in the country that use the quarter system.  I don't believe the semester system has become the preferred university education structure for no reason.  The move may hurt local businesses, but regrettably Ohio University has to put themselves first.

Athletics and Highly paid administrative positions have been the focus of much of the budget debate.  In my opinion, that is not where the biggest issues are.  I believe the biggest issues are with, GASP, Academic programs and structure.  The second someone mentions that, 10 other people jump up and scream about athletics.  Their strategy of deflecting attention and being more vocal has worked to this point.  However, it is time to put them under the microscope.  The dissolution of the College of Health and Human Services is just the beginning.  Ohio University has an enrollment of 18,589 and offers 250 undergraduate majors.  In contrast, The Ohio State University has an enrollment of 55,014 and 175 undergraduate majors.  With almost three times as many students they offer far fewer majors.

In my opinion, the best way for Ohio University to save money is to go through a major consolidation of academic programs.  Become more focused on providing fewer more outstanding academic programs and far less infatuated with the idea that 250 majors somehow enhances the academic experience and reputation of the university.  I know it is difficult to cut programs, but the athletic department already did their part.  Time for academics to bite the bullet.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 9/29/2010 4:52 PM
Kinggeorge4 (George Cheripko) wrote:expand_more
We have had three here at the library turn down jobs in the last two years because of money.  Afraid to make the switch with our shaky budget or the lack of $ we were offering due to our budget constraints.  Several VP jobs and assistant to vp jobs were in the same boat.  Several have pulled out in the airport interview for thses reasons, so BINGO to you Alan!


Assuming you were able to fill those jobs with good people, it looks like the salary offered was enough.  If they aren't good people, then why did they get hired?  Bingo back.
Kinggeorge4
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Posted: 9/29/2010 4:58 PM
We had to reduce the number of jobs to raise the salary of a few.  It was a long process of restructuring because we could not attract people with what we were offering.  It wasn't enough to have people to make a change or move here.  Many departments on campus are finding the same problem.  Not going to mention them on a public forum, but it is happening.  So bingo!
Alan Swank
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Posted: 9/29/2010 4:59 PM
V of R, don't read too much into the tone of the typed word.  I do think that any of us could find ways and places to save money in just about any organization, my own company included.  This is opinion but I just don't buy into the concept of having to necessarily pay more.  Did we really need to raise the president's pay $85,000 to keep up with the Joneses?  He wasn't going anywhere and to the best of my knowledge no one was knocking at the door to wisk him away.  That is not a criticism of McDavis but it is a criticism of our board of trustees - the same board who's lt. governor candidate said that perhaps students could forgo a pair of expensive jeans or get a job to offset the tuition and fee increases.    Talk about on the outside looking in.

This would be a great topic to discuss in person.  We could have the Bobcatattack budget forum.  Heck, even Monroe and Burke might fly in for that one.
Ohio69
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Posted: 9/29/2010 5:14 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more

Very true 69.  Ohio is struggling to attract people (good) at many levels.  Too many budget questions looming in our state, with the university and the old problems (not in a big city or near one).



Fact or fiction?  How can you possibly that OU is struggling to attract good people?   Again, this is a self-justification statement.  Sorry George but many on the outside looking in see loads of opportunity for running things more efficiently and effectively.



Alan - I'll try to split this in to two issues.

Attracting good people -- Failed searches for high level and critical positions are becoming the norm.  Even when quality search firms are involved.  And retaining high level and critical people is an issue.  That doesn't mean you just start throwing money at all of this.  Money doesn't fix everything.  But, we shouldn't be surprised to see some high salaries for the top execs if/when new ones are hired.  Its a tough environment to recruit and retain.

Running things more efficiently -- Well, OK.  Lay them on me.  I'm listening.  But unless all skills are transferable to all jobs then layoffs and efficiencies won't impact attraction and retention.  You can't move a widget maker into a key IT position or a specialzed librarian position or the CFO position or etc..  It will probably negatively impact attraction and retention.

I'll add a third.  My guess is there's things you (and me and others) think the univeristy shouldn't be doing at all. 
Voice of Reason
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Posted: 9/29/2010 5:17 PM
Yes, we do have to keep up with the Joneses! How are we going to attract and keep talent if we don't pay them competitively?  We probably should pay more since we don't have a lot of other things to offer in the area.  I realize you came here, loved it, and stayed.  But that is not typical and in order for us to get the people here, we do need to pay them competitively if not more.  I love Athens and I want to stay here, but i never would have entertained coming here had it not been for an opportunity that pays competitively. 

Also, assuming the President isn't going anywhere is far to big an assumption for my taste.  Would you rather we take our fifth choice candidate or our first choice and pay a little better.  I choose pay a little better!  Then, I choose pay to keep them because it is far more costly to search, find and replace them than it is to give them a raise.
SBH
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Posted: 9/29/2010 5:49 PM
Sadly, the Ohio governor who first slashed higher education funding, setting the stage for continued erosion over the long term, was OU alum George Voinovich. 
Alan Swank
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Posted: 9/29/2010 6:09 PM
To help in this discussion, can someone explain why college inflation is generally 1.5 to 2 times as great on an annual basis as the general rate of inflation?

http://www.finaid.org/savings/tuition-inflation.phtml
Last Edited: 9/29/2010 6:10:42 PM by Alan Swank
Flomo-genized
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Posted: 9/29/2010 6:24 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
To help in this discussion, can someone explain why college inflation is generally 1.5 to 2 times as great on an annual basis as the general rate of inflation?

http://www.finaid.org/savings/tuition-inflation.phtml


Mike Johnson will argue that it is the result of a lack of private sector management and discipline.  However, I think that the real answer is that there has been an increase in demand for higher education as the public increasingly realizes that a college education is increasingly important for success in the 21st Century, combined with the fact that there has been an expansion and (perhaps) overabundance of private and public student loans over the last 10-15 years.  As a result, colleges and universities have been able to raise tuition without facing traditional market pressures, because students are willing to fund their demand for higher education with a nearly limitless supply of student loan debt.  A strong case can be made that we are in the midst of a student loan bubble.
Last Edited: 9/29/2010 6:29:12 PM by Flomo-genized
Alan Swank
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Posted: 9/29/2010 6:34 PM
So you're saying easy money (buy now pay later) has allowed the cost to go through the roof thereby giving higher education tons of money to do with what they choose and now with the decrease in state and federal subsidies, that cushion no longer exists?  Kind of sounds like the federal and state budget deficits - hard choices are ahead as to what is needed and what isn't and how much we pay for those programs and people.  That's why I included Flomo on the team to straighten this mess out.
Last Edited: 9/29/2010 6:35:51 PM by Alan Swank
Ohio69
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Posted: 9/29/2010 7:12 PM
http://net.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ffp0005s.pdf

The above is short (4 pages), and pretty much captures it.  Although their solutions underwhelmed me.

My favorite part:

"To look better than their competitors, the institutions wind up in an arms race of spending to improve facilities, faculty, students, research, and instructional technology. Meanwhile, students and their families increasingly want to buy the best..."

This is what Rich Vedder just doesn't get.  The kids and parents want the country club campuses that he rails against.

Last Edited: 9/29/2010 7:16:06 PM by Ohio69
C Money
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Posted: 9/29/2010 8:14 PM
Flomo-genized wrote:expand_more
To help in this discussion, can someone explain why college inflation is generally 1.5 to 2 times as great on an annual basis as the general rate of inflation?

http://www.finaid.org/savings/tuition-inflation.phtml


Mike Johnson will argue that it is the result of a lack of private sector management and discipline.  However, I think that the real answer is that there has been an increase in demand for higher education as the public increasingly realizes that a college education is increasingly important for success in the 21st Century, combined with the fact that there has been an expansion and (perhaps) overabundance of private and public student loans over the last 10-15 years.  As a result, colleges and universities have been able to raise tuition without facing traditional market pressures, because students are willing to fund their demand for higher education with a nearly limitless supply of student loan debt.  A strong case can be made that we are in the midst of a student loan bubble.


I'll disagree slightly with the first half of your statement. I think specialized knowledge, moreso than a "college education," is increasingly important in the 21st Century. There are many in demand jobs (even in this economy) that don't require a college degree necessarily, but perhaps a stint in trade or vocational school. I'm thinking skilled manufacturing trades or technical/technology specialties. I think some people treat college as the new high school, where as long as you get the degree, you're in good shape for getting a job. They forget that along the way you're supposed to learn something that sets you apart from the competition.

But I think you've got something there with the second half of your statement. There's that old saying about corellation and causation, but you can pretty much chart the skyrocketing of higher education costs and the availability of student loans, and the two charts will line up perfectly with each other. It's a bubble that needs to burst, but we've made it next to impossible to discharge student loans in bankruptcy, so student lenders have very little risk exposure.

My question is why don't we hold the FinAid counselors responsible for advising these students (and their parents) to take on all this debt? Many students are sold a lie when they're told to borrow--only to find out upon graduation that those income figures don't quite line up with what they were told they could expect. It's not quite a Ponzi scheme, but it might be the closest legal equivalent this side of Social Security.
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Posted: 9/29/2010 8:32 PM
The economy is in shambles with high unemployment and Ohio University cannot find qualified candidates?  That's because your pool of prospects are all coming from the same pool--Academia, where there is no unemployment.  Broaden the pool.  Set up over in Iraq and Afghanistan and hire some Army Captain who has managed several thousand people and had to adapt to dealing with locals and pay him/her 80 Grand and he/she stays here 5 or 6 years gaining their Academia Experience and they cash in at some other school--then we go back and find another. There should be only a handful of administrators over 30 working at Ohio University; make it a feeder for other schools to pay the big dollars.  How old are the guys in University Parking; heck a 22 year old could have slapped the locks on the truck as easy as an old timer and at 30% the pay!

If our business department produces well educated people hire a 22 year old and let him sink or swim, most of the programs have already been put in place so we're just talking about following the manual.  

Instead of the cheerleaders being kept home the brass should have said, "The buck stops here," so no jetting to Marshall or Eastern Michigan as the penalty for those in their employ for screwing up.  
Flomo-genized
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Posted: 9/29/2010 9:11 PM
C Money wrote:expand_more
I'll disagree slightly with the first half of your statement. I think specialized knowledge, moreso than a "college education," is increasingly important in the 21st Century.


I agree.  My earlier post was poorly stated.  What I meant to say was that because the public at-large increasingly views a college education as critical (even if that is not necessarily true in reality), demand for higher education is rising. 
Last Edited: 9/29/2010 9:12:28 PM by Flomo-genized
Alan Swank
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Posted: 9/29/2010 10:25 PM
For what it's worth, I throw this article into the mix:

http://www.more.com/2050/22280-is-college-worth-the-cash/...
John C. Wanamaker
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Posted: 9/30/2010 7:23 AM
Ever wonder why we still crank out so many "unemployable" majors?  Majors that give no real job skills, but will gladly help you go to Graduate School.  I will begin cutting right there!
medler
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Posted: 9/30/2010 8:10 AM
John C. Wanamaker wrote:expand_more
Ever wonder why we still crank out so many "unemployable" majors?  Majors that give no real job skills, but will gladly help you go to Graduate School.  I will begin cutting right there!


So the university's mission is to be a vocational school?



Last Edited: 9/30/2010 8:10:58 AM by medler
Robert Fox
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Posted: 9/30/2010 8:31 AM
So the university's mission is to be intellectually out of touch with society?
Ohio69
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Posted: 9/30/2010 8:37 AM
medler wrote:expand_more
Ever wonder why we still crank out so many "unemployable" majors?  Majors that give no real job skills, but will gladly help you go to Graduate School.  I will begin cutting right there!


So the university's mission is to be a vocational school?



Medler:  Yes.  Science, Math, Engineering, and Technology.  That's the focus in Ohio.  No interest in broad based learning and critical thinking outside of those 4 areas.

Wanamaker:  Careful there.  Some of the wealthiest people I know had "unemployable" undergraduate majors.  But, they didn't stop there.  They then went on to business school, law school, medical school and etc.  And, they credit their undergraduate learning experience big time.
Last Edited: 9/30/2010 8:38:02 AM by Ohio69
Tim Burke
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Posted: 9/30/2010 8:51 AM
John C. Wanamaker wrote:expand_more
Ever wonder why we still crank out so many "unemployable" majors?  Majors that give no real job skills, but will gladly help you go to Graduate School.  I will begin cutting right there!


Screw you. My alma mater is not a vo-tech.
John C. Wanamaker
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Posted: 9/30/2010 8:58 AM
Hmmmm.....Someone one else says we have 250 majors and we need to down size, and yet I get ripped because I make a blanket statement, that some of these majors that have no direct job field or training should be the ones to go.  Some of you need to open your minds a bit.   And what is wrong with change?  And Please point to where I said Ohio University should become a Vocational School????  I think I missed that, oh wait I never said it!
SBH
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Posted: 9/30/2010 9:02 AM
Getting back to the original topic of this thread, this latest financial crisis could be the last straw for McDavis, trustees and others who have tried very hard to protect athletics.  I'm not happy about it, but I think it's conceivable we'll see deep cuts in ICA this time.

Also, why have I not seen any news reports about the stimulus cut-off affecting other schools?  I assume all state-supported universities are in the same boat.

Finally, I can't resist any longer: Burke just might be the most abrasive poster on this site.  "Screw you!?"

And I got a real kick out of his post about how "uptight" our society has become.  If I'm not mistaken, he's the moderator who bans people left and right during basketball chat.  Take a Paxil, dude.
John C. Wanamaker
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Posted: 9/30/2010 9:31 AM
Here you go SBH, nothing on losing the money, but seeing how this was a one shot deal from the Feds, I would ass-u-me that these other institutions are losing these funds as well. 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/10/post_86.html


One thing that is still up in the air, what will happen with the State budget.
Last Edited: 9/30/2010 9:32:14 AM by John C. Wanamaker
SBH
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Posted: 9/30/2010 9:37 AM
The state already floated the concept yesterday of skipping one of this year's monthly payments to public universities and then "trying" to make it up early next year.  That's millions more that could disappear before the end of this year.
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