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Topic: Bowl -break even?
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Scott Woods
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Posted: 1/12/2011 11:42 AM
UpSan Bobcat wrote:expand_more
It's not exactly like this.

It's more like you're running a profitable lemonade stand (the football program as a whole is profitable, right?) and set aside money from your profits in order to operate an extra month. Business during that extra month is not profitable and you already knew it probably wouldn't be, but hopefully you make a few new customers during that time and it will make your business even better in the future.


I am not discussing anything about the football program as a whole (I don't have any idea if it breaks even or not as a whole) and whether or not the bowl game brings additional benefits such as new customers.  My whole point is to discuss whether or not the bowl game, as a singular event, broke even.  Based on the information presented in this thread, my answer would be that no, it did not break even.
Ohio69
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Posted: 1/12/2011 12:08 PM
"Breaking even" and "making money" or "losing money" is moot.

Ohio University has decided to play football at this level.  That includes no or low payout bowl games.  

The folks running the university believe the utility is there for what is spent on football.  They are satisfied.  And, that's different leadership over many decades.  That's all that matters.

Div. I football will exist at Ohio until students stop enrolling in big numbers, Ohio can't hire/keep employees it wants to hire/keep, can't offer the programs and services it wants to offer, or some external force (the NCAA, politicians, etc.) boots Ohio out of Div. I.  I don't expect any of those scenarios to happen.

imho
Last Edited: 1/12/2011 12:10:08 PM by Ohio69
Ted Thompson
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Posted: 1/12/2011 12:15 PM
Scott Woods wrote:expand_more
It's not exactly like this.

It's more like you're running a profitable lemonade stand (the football program as a whole is profitable, right?) and set aside money from your profits in order to operate an extra month. Business during that extra month is not profitable and you already knew it probably wouldn't be, but hopefully you make a few new customers during that time and it will make your business even better in the future.


I am not discussing anything about the football program as a whole (I don't have any idea if it breaks even or not as a whole) and whether or not the bowl game brings additional benefits such as new customers.  My whole point is to discuss whether or not the bowl game, as a singular event, broke even.  Based on the information presented in this thread, my answer would be that no, it did not break even.


No sport at Ohio turns a profit. Bowl game revenues did not equal expenses. The Athletic Dept. made room in its budget for a shortfall (like the $97K they covered for the NOLA Bowl). Just like they would budget for salaries, payments to FCS foes in football and the one-way games in hoops. I think it's as simple as that. In the past, there was no budget for the shortfall.
Scott Woods
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Posted: 1/12/2011 4:00 PM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
"Breaking even" and "making money" or "losing money" is moot.


It's moot until someone is trying to claim that it's breaking even when it's not.

Ted Thompson wrote:expand_more
Bowl game revenues did not equal expenses. The Athletic Dept. made room in its budget for a shortfall (like the $97K they covered for the NOLA Bowl). ... I think it's as simple as that. In the past, there was no budget for the shortfall.


I agree.  So why doesn't the department just say that?  Why say that it "broke even" when it didn't?

I'm not trying to argue that they should not have gone to the bowl or that it was a waste of money.  (The waste was the performance on the field.)  My point is that all (or most of us I think) are adults and can handle the truth. 

"Going to a bowl is a financial loss in terms of real dollars, but the VALUE of going to a bowl far outweigh this loss because of x, y, and z."
Last Edited: 1/12/2011 4:00:53 PM by Scott Woods
Ted Thompson
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Posted: 1/12/2011 4:45 PM
Scott Woods wrote:expand_more
"Breaking even" and "making money" or "losing money" is moot.


It's moot until someone is trying to claim that it's breaking even when it's not.

Bowl game revenues did not equal expenses. The Athletic Dept. made room in its budget for a shortfall (like the $97K they covered for the NOLA Bowl). ... I think it's as simple as that. In the past, there was no budget for the shortfall.


I agree.  So why doesn't the department just say that?  Why say that it "broke even" when it didn't?

I'm not trying to argue that they should not have gone to the bowl or that it was a waste of money.  (The waste was the performance on the field.)  My point is that all (or most of us I think) are adults and can handle the truth. 

"Going to a bowl is a financial loss in terms of real dollars, but the VALUE of going to a bowl far outweigh this loss because of x, y, and z."


I think what they're trying to show is that now, unlike in the past, the Bowl expense is not causing them to go outside of their budget. That's why I don't think you see an announcement. Ohio pays between $60-$80K for a one-way  basketball game. So when Norfolk St. comes to town for basketball, there is no article saying Ohio lost $70K on the Norfolk St. game. Since all sports lose money, most every game loses money. This one is no different and they had already made room for it in the budget and didn't have to go looking for more money from the university.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 1/12/2011 11:16 PM
Ted Thompson wrote:expand_more
I think what they're trying to show is that now, unlike in the past, the Bowl expense is not causing them to go outside of their budget. That's why I don't think you see an announcement. Ohio pays between $60-$80K for a one-way  basketball game. So when Norfolk St. comes to town for basketball, there is no article saying Ohio lost $70K on the Norfolk St. game. Since all sports lose money, most every game loses money. This one is no different and they had already made room for it in the budget and didn't have to go looking for more money from the university.


Thanks, Ted, for this fact-based post.  It really helps put things in perspective. 
John C. Wanamaker
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Posted: 1/12/2011 11:48 PM
OCF that is essentially the same post I made on the front page....LOL, guess you couldn't read it from the phone at 30,000 feet, or were you on a cruise? ;)
Scott Woods
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Posted: 1/13/2011 7:15 AM
Ted Thompson wrote:expand_more
I think what they're trying to show is that now, unlike in the past, the Bowl expense is not causing them to go outside of their budget.


That's a fine argument to make.  But let's not call it "breaking even."

If we look at the larger issue that you bring up...the fact we lose money on nearly every game, the athletic department has to do a better job to change the discussion.  If the vast majority of Div. 1 universities lose money on athletics, I think asking whether or not to continue doing so is a fair question.  The answer to this question cannot be that "we're breaking even," when it is clear that we are not.  In fact, the answer cannot be about money at all.  The answer has to be about the VALUE athletics brings to the university and her mission.

Going back to the poster that called the question moot.  It's not moot.  As Wanny has pointed out several times, the budget isn't expanding any time soon.  When you go to the table to ask for money, you cannot say that "losing money is just the nature of college athletics and everybody's doing it and we'll break even if we budget for it."  You have to demonstrate the VALUE athletics will return to the univerisity on the dollars you are asking them to invest.  I'm sure that they are already doing this, but the general population, especially outside of university circles, (like me - as Swank likes to point out, I'm from Ironton - not sure how it's relevent, but...) needs to keep hearing how and what VALUE athletics brings to the university mission.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 1/15/2011 4:47 PM
John C. Wanamaker wrote:expand_more
OCF that is essentially the same post I made on the front page....LOL, guess you couldn't read it from the phone at 30,000 feet, or were you on a cruise? ;)


JCW, I don't have any trouble agreeing with both you and Ted and the same time.  I just don't want it to happen too often or it'd ruin my reputation, what little I have left. 

However, I must point out that Ted added the comparison with basketball home guarantees which I think was particularly useful information because of the nameless football haters who sometimes come on this forum.  
John C. Wanamaker
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Posted: 1/15/2011 10:23 PM
Lol........Ted did go a little more in the detail. Let's face it, all of our sports lose money when looking at income v expenses, same with most programs in the nation. We do budget to cover these expenses and I for one have no problem with that.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 1/16/2011 9:00 PM
Me, neither, JCW. 
Kinggeorge4
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Posted: 3/16/2011 10:31 AM
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Posted: 3/26/2011 4:31 PM
I don't know what Scott's problem is.  I'm thinking he has a hidden agenda.  But let's look at the situation from a business standpoint.  First of all, the university thinks it's a good idea to have an athletic program.  It provides extra-curricular actrivity for a number of students, for other students it has entertainment value,  sports builds school loyalty, builds local, state and national recognition.  So, there is definitely hard and soft value.  So, from a business standpoint, the university needs to budget for its athletic program.  As a result, the athletic department develops a budget of all its expected expenses for all its activities for the year. That would include a possible football bowl game. Next it needs to balance with expected revenues. Here are some possible revenue sources: student fees, gate receipts, alumni donations, endorsements, etc. 
    Are you following me so far Scott? So, if the athletic budgets X for the bowl and if revenues from the MAC and the budget sit aside matches the total bowl expenses, then the university would consider it a break even situation.  OK?
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