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Topic: 2011 Schedule Released
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Robert Fox
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Posted: 3/1/2011 1:19 PM
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If that's the case, then I agree the Miami game time is a shame. In fact, it's a lot more puzzling to me why OU would agree to ANY weekday games.

Being out-of-state, I enjoy the opportunity to see the team on TV, but the loss in ticket revenue would have to be significant.

Weekend: 15,000 paid attendance X $10/ticket = $150,000
Weekday: 3,000 paid attendance X $10/ticket = $30,000

Loss of $120,000 X 2 home games = $240,000 + any loss in other revenue: parking, concessions, etc.

On the other hand, what is the value of approximately 12 hours of exposure (4 games) on ESPN2/U?

Anybody know what the average viewership is for an in-season weekday MAC game on ESPN2?
anorris
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Posted: 3/1/2011 1:27 PM
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As I said, I don't think we have a say in it. We as an institution have a contract with the conference, and the conference has a contract with ESPN.
Bobcat36
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Posted: 3/1/2011 1:34 PM
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MonroeClassmate wrote:expand_more
Four games in 20 days and three in 13 is going to be tough, even coming off a long break after Akron


My thoughts exactly...

I wonder how much say Coach Solich has in all this...This is the most favorable schedule we've seen in a long long time...We have a ton of talent returning (please for the love of all that's Holy keep Brazil off of Special Teams)...We have a very real chance to reach national ranking status and we're busy selling out the entire month of November playing 3 games in 13 days...I don't agree with it at all.

When we can finally hang a MACC banner in Peden, no one will remember how many times we were on ESPN...This season is a rare aligning of the stars and the Administration is doing it's best to undermine it...


That is playing somewhat lose with numbers.  A typical run of four Saturday games is in 22 days and a 3 run Saturday string is played in 15 so not a big deal when you consider it is coming off a greater than one week break and by playing Miami days before Thanksgiving instead of after, Ohio will have a longer break to prepare for Detroit--maybe even let the boys go home for Thanksgiving.  Additionally, the Red Skunks the final opponent are in a similar situation.


Point taken...

Still we're looking at back to back to back short rests with two of those being road games and all three being against solid teams...

Oh well...You're right that in the end, all of the MAC teams are dealing with the same thing while the conference continues to embarrass itself (from an attendance perspective) in front of a national audience...

And I agree it would be nice if they guys got to go home for Thanksgiving!
Ted Thompson
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Posted: 3/1/2011 1:35 PM
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Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
If that's the case, then I agree the Miami game time is a shame. In fact, it's a lot more puzzling to me why OU would agree to ANY weekday games.

Being out-of-state, I enjoy the opportunity to see the team on TV, but the loss in ticket revenue would have to be significant.

Weekend: 15,000 paid attendance X $10/ticket = $150,000
Weekday: 3,000 paid attendance X $10/ticket = $30,000

Loss of $120,000 X 2 home games = $240,000 + any loss in other revenue: parking, concessions, etc.

On the other hand, what is the value of approximately 12 hours of exposure (4 games) on ESPN2/U?

Anybody know what the average viewership is for an in-season weekday MAC game on ESPN2?


Since most of Ohio's paid attendance is in the form of season tickets and a decent percentage of average attendance is students, I don't think that math holds. The delta would be in walk-up sales between the two games. I would guess walk-up sales may be 1,000 at most. So you maybe lose $30,000.

I don't know what the average MAC ESPN2 game is but I do have the numbers for this year's Ohio/Temple game. The game drew a .7 rating which equates to 689,639 households and 789,451 viewers. As a comparison, that game outdrew two of the ESPN2 games that folloing Saturday 11/20 (Pitt @ USF - .62, Oklahoma @ Baylor - .69).

That's why it's such an easy call for MAC AD's. The money from the TV contract probably more than offsets any lost ticket revenue and the exposure is great. Of course, this issue is how to take advantage of the exposure.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 3/1/2011 1:48 PM
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Ted Thompson wrote:expand_more
If that's the case, then I agree the Miami game time is a shame. In fact, it's a lot more puzzling to me why OU would agree to ANY weekday games.

Being out-of-state, I enjoy the opportunity to see the team on TV, but the loss in ticket revenue would have to be significant.

Weekend: 15,000 paid attendance X $10/ticket = $150,000
Weekday: 3,000 paid attendance X $10/ticket = $30,000

Loss of $120,000 X 2 home games = $240,000 + any loss in other revenue: parking, concessions, etc.

On the other hand, what is the value of approximately 12 hours of exposure (4 games) on ESPN2/U?

Anybody know what the average viewership is for an in-season weekday MAC game on ESPN2?


Since most of Ohio's paid attendance is in the form of season tickets and a decent percentage of average attendance is students, I don't think that math holds. The delta would be in walk-up sales between the two games. I would guess walk-up sales may be 1,000 at most. So you maybe lose $30,000.

I don't know what the average MAC ESPN2 game is but I do have the numbers for this year's Ohio/Temple game. The game drew a .7 rating which equates to 689,639 households and 789,451 viewers. As a comparison, that game outdrew two of the ESPN2 games that folloing Saturday 11/20 (Pitt @ USF - .62, Oklahoma @ Baylor - .69).

That's why it's such an easy call for MAC AD's. The money from the TV contract probably more than offsets any lost ticket revenue and the exposure is great. Of course, this issue is how to take advantage of the exposure.


You guys keep talking about exposure but at the same time saying the MAC is horrible.  So the question is, what is that exposure getting us?  If it's better players then the league wouldn't be as horrible as some of you say it is.  Also, according to this, in 2008 the MAC got a whopping $1.4 million in tv revenue.  Divided by 13 that's not much money to play on church night.

http://www.ncaabbs.com/printthread.php?tid=350645
Last Edited: 3/1/2011 1:54:20 PM by Alan Swank
Robert Fox
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Posted: 3/1/2011 1:58 PM
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Ted Thompson wrote:expand_more
Since most of Ohio's paid attendance is in the form of season tickets...


I didn't know that was true. I agree the real difference is in walk-up sales, which is what I was trying to estimate. Are you saying the difference in a weekday game to a weekend game is only 1,000 (walk-up) tickets? 

Weekend game:
18,000 in attendance
3,000 students
Of the 15,000 left, what percentage are season ticket holders?

Weekday game:
5,000 in attendance
2,000 students

Anorris, if what you are saying is true, than I am stunned. I would think any MAC school has the ultimate say as to whether they play games during the week, and if they appear on TV. I see your point that the ESPN contract is with the conference and not with the individual schools, but the schools (I would have thougth) ultimately choose their degree of participation.

Alan,
Who's saying the MAC is horrible? 
Last Edited: 3/1/2011 2:01:43 PM by Robert Fox
Ted Thompson
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Posted: 3/1/2011 2:06 PM
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Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
Since most of Ohio's paid attendance is in the form of season tickets...


I didn't know that was true. I agree the real difference is in walk-up sales, which is what I was trying to estimate. Are you saying the difference in a weekday game to a weekend game is only 1,000 (walk-up) tickets? 

Weekend game:
18,000 in attendance
3,000 students
Of the 15,000 left, what percentage are season ticket holders?

Weekday game:
5,000 in attendance
2,000 students

Anorris, if what you are saying is true, than I am stunned. I would think any MAC school has the ultimate say as to whether they play games during the week, and if they appear on TV. I see your point that the ESPN contract is with the conference and not with the individual schools, but the schools (I would have thougth) ultimately choose their degree of participation.

Alan,
Who's saying the MAC is horrible? 


I think the delta between November weekend games and November weekday games would not be that much. Assuming each MAC team gets $100K for weekday games, they would have to lose 10,000 sales at $10 each just to break even.

MAC schools do not have a say in scheduling. I think schools do get one objection to use and that is how Ohio got the Miami game moved up to Homecoming a couple of years ago.
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Posted: 3/1/2011 2:13 PM
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Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
Since most of Ohio's paid attendance is in the form of season tickets...


I didn't know that was true. I agree the real difference is in walk-up sales, which is what I was trying to estimate. Are you saying the difference in a weekday game to a weekend game is only 1,000 (walk-up) tickets? 

Weekend game:
18,000 in attendance
3,000 students
Of the 15,000 left, what percentage are season ticket holders?

Weekday game:
5,000 in attendance
2,000 students

Anorris, if what you are saying is true, than I am stunned. I would think any MAC school has the ultimate say as to whether they play games during the week, and if they appear on TV. I see your point that the ESPN contract is with the conference and not with the individual schools, but the schools (I would have thougth) ultimately choose their degree of participation.

Alan,
Who's saying the MAC is horrible? 


It seems to me there's got to be more than a 1,000 individual ticket sales difference. I agree with Robert on that. But Ted has a valid point that ticket sales won't drop much because so much attendance is season tickets and students. Last year's Buffalo game had an announced attendance of just over 15,000. A typical weekend game was probably closer to 19,000 or 20,000. So the difference I'd think is maybe 4,000 tickets. I think tickets are sometimes sold cheaper for weeknight games, so say they were $15 and that's maybe $60,000. Then again, there's less season ticket holders and students actually in attendance, so that does cut down on consessions value, too. But to me, it's still a small cost for the exposure.

I would think anorris is right about scheduling. Schools schedule their own non-conference opponents, date and time. But I'm pretty sure the MAC sets the conference schedule without much say.
Ted Thompson
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Posted: 3/1/2011 2:18 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
If that's the case, then I agree the Miami game time is a shame. In fact, it's a lot more puzzling to me why OU would agree to ANY weekday games.

Being out-of-state, I enjoy the opportunity to see the team on TV, but the loss in ticket revenue would have to be significant.

Weekend: 15,000 paid attendance X $10/ticket = $150,000
Weekday: 3,000 paid attendance X $10/ticket = $30,000

Loss of $120,000 X 2 home games = $240,000 + any loss in other revenue: parking, concessions, etc.

On the other hand, what is the value of approximately 12 hours of exposure (4 games) on ESPN2/U?

Anybody know what the average viewership is for an in-season weekday MAC game on ESPN2?


Since most of Ohio's paid attendance is in the form of season tickets and a decent percentage of average attendance is students, I don't think that math holds. The delta would be in walk-up sales between the two games. I would guess walk-up sales may be 1,000 at most. So you maybe lose $30,000.

I don't know what the average MAC ESPN2 game is but I do have the numbers for this year's Ohio/Temple game. The game drew a .7 rating which equates to 689,639 households and 789,451 viewers. As a comparison, that game outdrew two of the ESPN2 games that folloing Saturday 11/20 (Pitt @ USF - .62, Oklahoma @ Baylor - .69).

That's why it's such an easy call for MAC AD's. The money from the TV contract probably more than offsets any lost ticket revenue and the exposure is great. Of course, this issue is how to take advantage of the exposure.


You guys keep talking about exposure but at the same time saying the MAC is horrible.  So the question is, what is that exposure getting us?  If it's better players then the league wouldn't be as horrible as some of you say it is.  Also, according to this, in 2008 the MAC got a whopping $1.4 million in tv revenue.  Divided by 13 that's not much money to play on church night.

http://www.ncaabbs.com/printthread.php?tid=350645


Alan,

I don't subscribe that exposure will get the MAC better players. To me, it's just getting up to course and speed of the exposure that other conferences get

The move to a 12-game schedule gave MAC teams another home game. Previously, MAC teams had at least one money game and sometimes two. That meant they had 4 or 5 home games in a given year. Now, they can schedule 4 or 5 games earlier in the year than previous. So, the last game or two was like house money. No one attends November MAC games so the decision to get some money and exposure for them wasn't a hard call.

The extremely valid question you bring up is what is that exposure is worth. I don't think it costs anything so I would say anything derived from it is upside. The best attendance at our alumni chapter and traffic from this website have come from the away mid-week games. Will it ultimately build a fan base? I don't know. But playing in secret on Saturdays for 50 years didn't.
Ted Thompson
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Posted: 3/1/2011 2:22 PM
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UpSan Bobcat wrote:expand_more
It seems to me there's got to be more than a 1,000 individual ticket sales difference. I agree with Robert on that. But Ted has a valid point that ticket sales won't drop much because so much attendance is season tickets and students. Last year's Buffalo game had an announced attendance of just over 15,000. A typical weekend game was probably closer to 19,000 or 20,000. So the difference I'd think is maybe 4,000 tickets. I think tickets are sometimes sold cheaper for weeknight games, so say they were $15 and that's maybe $60,000. Then again, there's less season ticket holders and students actually in attendance, so that does cut down on consessions value, too. But to me, it's still a small cost for the exposure.


I don't think you can compare typical weekend games to November weekend games. As the whether turns cold, attendance goes down. Take the Miami game for instance. You could play that game on 11/26 and probably have less attendance than you would on 11/22.
anorris
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Posted: 3/1/2011 3:27 PM
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Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
Anorris, if what you are saying is true, than I am stunned. I would think any MAC school has the ultimate say as to whether they play games during the week, and if they appear on TV. I see your point that the ESPN contract is with the conference and not with the individual schools, but the schools (I would have thougth) ultimately choose their degree of participation.
Ultimately the school has control insomuch as they can choose not to be a part of a conference. I'm positive that conference game scheduling is dealt with in the contracts between the 13 schools and the conference, so we have "agreed" to an extent.
Last Edited: 3/1/2011 3:29:07 PM by anorris
Bobcatbob
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Posted: 3/1/2011 5:14 PM
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In my professional career I've been accused of over analyzing things to try to find answers to subjective questions.  I finally realized it doesn't work.
That's what we have here; a lot of machinations with numbers we don't really know to "prove" the point.  
All that really matters is that the MAC and the its members must believe its worth it because they're still doing it after 4 5 years. 
They do, in fact, have the real numbers but I suspect they aren't important in this analysis.  However they get there, they're at least partly right in their approach because I hate those mid-week November night games but I keep buying season tickets anyway.  I've even gone to a couple.
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Posted: 3/1/2011 11:58 PM
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This part of the L.A. contingent will buy four season tickets.  Because it's the right thing to do.  And because we should start to bring it this year.  Who wants to miss that?  No right thinking individual.
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Posted: 3/2/2011 1:07 AM
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B  C  S  bound Bobcats
 
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Posted: 3/2/2011 7:38 AM
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D.A. wrote:expand_more
The sched definitely squelches my ability to attend the late season games, but I am glad they don't make the schedule out with me in mind because I think this team being on TV in four successive weeks says alot about where the program is now.  It also likely trumps Gman's ability to host MH55 at his tailgate.


On ESPN like this is great. Its something very few MAC schools can say and CUSA/MWC aren't on TV at all. Its a major recruiting bone to be on TV and the athletic department is pitching ESPN exposure to recruits as a tool within its marketing portfolio. It looks good to be for once stacking up at the top of the league in guarenteed exposure. I expect that the Rutgers, Kent and Marshall games will find their way to TV as well.

Ohio (2 ESPN2, 2 ESPNU)
Miami (2 ESPN2, 2 ESPNU)
Temple (2 ESPN2, 1 ESPN360)
Northern Ill. (1 ESPN2, 2 ESPNU, 1 ESPN360)
Toledo (1 ESPN2, 2 ESPNU, 1 ESPN360)
Central Michigan (3 ESPNU)
Bowling Green (2 ESPNU, 1 ESPN360)
Ball State (1 ESPNU, 1 ESPN360)
Akron (1 ESPNU, 1 ESPN360)
Kent State (1 ESPNU, 1ESPN360)
Buffalo (1 ESPN360)
Eastern Michigan (1 ESPN360)

 
anorris
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Posted: 3/2/2011 11:16 AM
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Wes wrote:expand_more
It looks good to be for once stacking up at the top of the league in guarenteed exposure. I expect that the Rutgers, Kent and Marshall games will find their way to TV as well.


With 6 regional broadcast games of the week, and a minimum of 3 STO broadcasts (though they did five last year), it seems relatively likely we'd pick up at least one more there.  Rutgers will probably be picked up in some form through their contracts, and as they've done virtually every time we've played recently, if nobody else wants the Marshall game, I would think WSAZ would setup and do it... both teams are in their coverage area, it would have to produce a lot of eyeballs and ad dollars in their area.

Interestingly, this year will be the first time ESPN2 will be in Peden since 2005, when they came for Pitt and Toledo.  Also, our @BG game is a 2/U selection date, so we could play ourselves to three games on 2, and just 1 on U.  There is a bigger difference in audience and production than most people realize between the two.
Last Edited: 3/2/2011 11:18:09 AM by anorris
Ozcat
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I was reading through the schedule top to bottom, and before I got to the end I dozed off and smacked my head against the desk....

What a joke of a schedule.  I will attend Homecoming, and that is it.  No other opponent is even worth the gas money.  (If Temple and Miami were on Saturdays, I would attend)  Some of your comments are even more hilarious.  BCS bound!?  WHAT?!  Write these two things down: 

  -  We could go 12-0 and not even crack the top 15.
  -  If we do have a good year, and play anyone in the top 40 in a bowl game, we will lose by 2 touchdowns.

This has to be the worst schedule in D-1.  When Rutgers is your 'season', that speaks volumes.

Also, our best home game is Marshall, which I will count over Temple since it is on a Saturday.  The problem?  tOSU plays Miami that day.  Hopefully tOSU gets the night game and we play at 2:00, otherwise, say goodnight to 50% of your students.  May as well then be a home game for the Herd...

This sets up to be like the 2010 Reds season.  Sure, you can play your way into the playoffs in that terrible division.  But as soon as you face a team with any talent, you get punched right in the throat.

Bobcat36
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Posted: 3/2/2011 12:05 PM
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Ozcat wrote:expand_more

What a joke of a schedule.  I will attend Homecoming, and that is it.  No other opponent is even worth the gas money.



Your choice, but please do us all a favor and modify your signature to more accurately represent what you are...

-- Resident OSU fan -- OU fan when it's convenient --
Last Edited: 3/2/2011 12:05:49 PM by Bobcat36
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Posted: 3/2/2011 1:11 PM
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Ozcat wrote:expand_more

I was reading through the schedule top to bottom, and before I got to the end I dozed off and smacked my head against the desk....

What a joke of a schedule.  I will attend Homecoming, and that is it.  No other opponent is even worth the gas money.  (If Temple and Miami were on Saturdays, I would attend)  Some of your comments are even more hilarious.  BCS bound!?  WHAT?!  Write these two things down: 

  -  We could go 12-0 and not even crack the top 15.
  -  If we do have a good year, and play anyone in the top 40 in a bowl game, we will lose by 2 touchdowns.

This has to be the worst schedule in D-1.  When Rutgers is your 'season', that speaks volumes.

Also, our best home game is Marshall, which I will count over Temple since it is on a Saturday.  The problem?  tOSU plays Miami that day.  Hopefully tOSU gets the night game and we play at 2:00, otherwise, say goodnight to 50% of your students.  May as well then be a home game for the Herd...

This sets up to be like the 2010 Reds season.  Sure, you can play your way into the playoffs in that terrible division.  But as soon as you face a team with any talent, you get punched right in the throat.


Oz, why the ditch on the Redlegs? You must be a "tried" fan........I'm not surprised.
Also, I think 12-0 got fiami in the top 15 and ball u was right there a few years ago.

Go whip up some taters for your precious butt-guys in 2011 and you can keep your fair-weather behind outta Peden Stadium. I doubt you'll be missed...

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Posted: 3/2/2011 5:38 PM
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Ohio could be an underdog against Rutgers, and a couple other games like CMU and BG will probably be tossups, but Ohio should be favored in most of the other games. It should be an interesting season.
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Posted: 3/2/2011 8:29 PM
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T-Rodge wrote:expand_more
Oz, why the ditch on the Redlegs? You must be a "tried" fan........I'm not surprised.
Also, I think 12-0 got fiami in the top 15 and ball u was right there a few years ago.

Go whip up some taters for your precious butt-guys in 2011 and you can keep your fair-weather behind outta Peden Stadium. I doubt you'll be missed...



I'm an Indians fan, and I used the Reds as an example of a team that is not great but hid in a terrible division.  I enjoy seeing the Reds do well, but as soon as they played a talented team (Philly), they were exposed and got whacked.

Exactly like Ball State did in 2008.  They piled up wins in a bad MAC, only to get waxed by Buffalo and perennial national powerhouse Tulsa.  FYI, they were exactly 15 when Buffalo whacked them.

I'm sorry, I can't get excited about Gardner Webb, Marshall, and then MAC teams.  Just can't.
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Posted: 3/3/2011 10:03 AM
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Ozcat wrote:expand_more
Oz, why the ditch on the Redlegs? You must be a "tried" fan........I'm not surprised.
Also, I think 12-0 got fiami in the top 15 and ball u was right there a few years ago.

Go whip up some taters for your precious butt-guys in 2011 and you can keep your fair-weather behind outta Peden Stadium. I doubt you'll be missed...



I'm an Indians fan, and I used the Reds as an example of a team that is not great but hid in a terrible division.  I enjoy seeing the Reds do well, but as soon as they played a talented team (Philly), they were exposed and got whacked.

Exactly like Ball State did in 2008.  They piled up wins in a bad MAC, only to get waxed by Buffalo and perennial national powerhouse Tulsa.  FYI, they were exactly 15 when Buffalo whacked them.

I'm sorry, I can't get excited about Gardner Webb, Marshall, and then MAC teams.  Just can't.


Well, thats the difference b/t you and me. I'm an OHIO FAN. I can get excited for any OHIO football game, even the Green n White game. Do I wish the schedule was different? Maybe, although the less competitive teams may enable OUr squad to go on a run and turn some heads coming out of the gate. I would be stoked if we went 4-0 into MAC play. Even if it is only the MAC, all we can do is beat the teams we play. Perhaps a big season this year could help pave the way for some bigger named schools on the schedule in the coming years. All we can do hope...and win the games we play.

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Posted: 3/3/2011 2:17 PM
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Ozcat wrote:expand_more
Oz, why the ditch on the Redlegs? You must be a "tried" fan........I'm not surprised.
Also, I think 12-0 got fiami in the top 15 and ball u was right there a few years ago.

Go whip up some taters for your precious butt-guys in 2011 and you can keep your fair-weather behind outta Peden Stadium. I doubt you'll be missed...



I'm an Indians fan, and I used the Reds as an example of a team that is not great but hid in a terrible division.  I enjoy seeing the Reds do well, but as soon as they played a talented team (Philly), they were exposed and got whacked.

Exactly like Ball State did in 2008.  They piled up wins in a bad MAC, only to get waxed by Buffalo and perennial national powerhouse Tulsa.  FYI, they were exactly 15 when Buffalo whacked them.

I'm sorry, I can't get excited about Gardner Webb, Marshall, and then MAC teams.  Just can't.


If you can't get excited for Marshall and Miami and call yourself an OHIO fan, you should get your head checked.

Have you been excited to play Michigan since the #1 vs #2 game?  It would be no different than OUvs Marshall/Fiami.
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Posted: 3/4/2011 11:02 AM
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LoganElm_grad09 wrote:expand_more
Have you been excited to play Michigan since the #1 vs #2 game?

No, not really.  It is still Michigan, and despite what some say, they really do care up there (ask new head coach Brady Hoke).  But they have been so bad lately that I haven't really been all too excited.  I have been more jacked for Wisconsin and Penn State in the last few years, not to mention the game against a top team they typically play (USC, Miami, Texas come to mind).

The Marshall game lost most of its luster when they decided they were too good for the MAC.  And they Miami rivalry of late is just as bad as OSU/Michigan.

If these games mattered, they would sell out.  Mark my words, they won't (unless Marshall bring 6,000 fans).
Last Edited: 3/4/2011 11:04:15 AM by Ozcat
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Posted: 3/4/2011 10:34 PM
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Ozcat wrote:expand_more
Exactly like Ball State did in 2008.  They piled up wins in a bad MAC, only to get waxed by Buffalo and perennial national powerhouse Tulsa.  FYI, they were exactly 15 when Buffalo whacked them.

I'm sorry, I can't get excited about Gardner Webb, Marshall, and then MAC teams.  Just can't.


Ball State was ranked #12 in the BCS poll (#11 in Harris/AP) prior to the Buffalo game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_NCAA_Division_I_FBS_football_rankings
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