Just to be clear, I think that many other majors offered at Ohio and most other universities fall into this category. Nursing is most certainly a trade, as is teaching and business administration. Some fields can work as both. For instance computer science as taught by ITT Tech is quite different than computer science taught at Stanford. One is taught as a trade while the other provides primarily a theoretical understanding of a complex subject.

However, broadcast journalism and AV'ish fields strike me as something that cannot be taught as anything other than a trade. They nicely map to real world jobs, which is what makes the major so popular. And no doubt there are many trade schools that exist to teach these subjects. I see ads for them on TV all the time. I would imagine that Ted Baxter attended a school such as this :)

One major problem with committing yourself to these types of majors is that you cannot do any research. What research can be performed in broadcast journalism? Are people publishing papers on the topic? Are grants available to fund graduate students? I think the answer is probably no. In some STEM fields, researchers often receive grants of hundreds of thousands (or sometimes millions) of dollars to use for funding promising grad students or buying equipment.

Overall, I think that these majors do have a place at a university. But if Ohio is to be taken seriously has a place of higher education or perhaps even a research institution, then our focus needs to be on other fields.

And to answer Bobcat 36's question, I am quite proud that Lauer and King went to Ohio. But I would give it all up for Ohio to become a top flight research university.

Yeah, I think we should tell Roger Ailes, the Walter Family Trust, the Russ Family Trust, the Osteopathic Heritage Foundation, the Patton Family Trust, the Voinovich Family Trust, the Schey Family Trust, the Schoonover Family Trust and EW Scripps to go screw and take their $500 million+ in gifts to Ohio with them.  After all, who needs those useless and non-contributing "trades", clearly no one has value for them.

BTW, still waiting to hear about that multi-million dollar gift in support to the World Religions program.

Ok, so I was a broadcast journalism major... and I'm not in broadcasting now. However, those experiences are not devalued in my eyes at all, and actually were very important.

Picture an 18-year old Freshman trying to get sound for WOUB, interviewing Coach Carbone after a bad loss, when he's good and pi$$ed...You're crazy if you think those experiences didn't teach me a lot about how to handle myself professionally.

great video, its always good to see OUr university represented well.

to think that this could be anything but good for OUr school is utter nonsense.

using Paul's logic, its ok to have these types of majors as long as they're not successful. Because when that happens you can't do research. or something. 

First, let me state that my undergraduate degree was a BSJ, and my sequence was broadcast journalism.  Also, for the record, I founded the broadcast journalism program at Marshall University in the early 1970s.  And, yes, journalism is a trade.  I actually disagree with those who say that it is a profession.  The word profession implies on one level licensing by the state as in medicine, law, nursing, some kinds of engineering, psychological counseling, social work, etc.  The First Amendment prohibits any such licensing requirement for practicing journalism in the USA.  

While there is some merit to the "X" and "Y" definitions posted above, the delineation is not as clear cut as one might imagine.  The College of Osteopathic Medicine would be a "Y" as it is clearly a trade school; however, it has some of the most high-powered researchers at Ohio University and is in the midst of a major upgrade of its research efforts.  A good university has a good blend of X and Y, but the division is not just between programs but within programs (and colleges).  

Interestingly Paul, I believe the university has already made that shift toward the scinces. Roughly 1/3 of Ohio's fall entering class is majoring in Science or Engineering while only 15% is studying communications. That transformation has already been made as state economic priorities have driven the school to emphasize growth in Science and Engineering. In my view, the school is suffering more from not being desirable for the top level liberal arts students. Take just one look at these numbers.

Fall 2010 1st Year Enrollment by Major

Biological Sciences (291)
Chemistry (86)
Chemical and Biomedical Engineering (37)

Political Science (43)
History (33)
Modern Languages (15)

http://www.ohio.edu/instres/student/frprofilemajor.html

As an graduate of the Russ College of Engineering, I have to say I get a kick out of your tirades about the low academic standards of some of the offerings in the Communications and Sports Admin fields. The way you are protraying the ills of the school as not enough emphasis on STEM when the latest academic building on campus was a joint engineering and medical one strikes me as poor analysis on your part. Ohio lagging in research dollars is a largely a result of a state that doesn't allow the school to have more than a limited number PhD programs while enabling competitors. The school has tried as hard as it possibly can to grow its STEM base. One third of entering freshman are studying a science related field while only 5% are studying traditional liberal arts. The communication school is one a few select areas where Ohio is permitted to offer the PhD. The only option I see for the school to increase its reputation with alll the constraints is to go after more progressive liberal arts programs that will attract a higher caliber of student if the programs are conceived first rate. To go along with the STEM focus already in place it would make for a greater university.

I totally understand Paul. Journalism and communications are degrees that only lower tier schools are interested in... I mean... why would we ever, ever, want to stay on this list of schools?

http://education-portal.com/top_10_journalism_schools.html

It's embarrassing to even be in the same sentence (academically speaking of course) as a Cal-Berkley or Northwestern....

Seriously though, I'm completely missing your point here... the video mentions Journalism, but it's also got kids from Graphic Design, Dance, Education, and Athletic Training...  

And, what's so wrong with learning a trade?  I for one am extremely glad I learned a trade while also earning a liberal arts degree...  my trade pays the bills much better than any of my general courses.  Sure, they provided a well rounded education, but the fact is, I wouldn't be eating if I didn't have a trade....

I think the issue is even trying to draw a line between x and y.... if you're learning Y (I think that's the trade one) while also getting the benefits of X... then what's the problem?  

The more I think about this argument the less it makes sense to me:

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with having or learning a trade.  For thousands of years men have had a trade, gone to work every day, worked with their hands, created something and came home with enough money to put supper on the table.  And society seemed to do just fine with that method of life. (They also had to walk 9 miles to school in the snow, up-hill both ways... but that's another story)  It's only been in the past couple hundred years (namely since the industrial revolution) that having a "trade" is something to be looked down upon.   

If you ask me, this concept that "having a trade" is somehow beneath the level of "successful men" is a fundamental flaw in our society today.  I have plenty of friends who learned a trade and are now pulling in amazing salaries working with their hands... having a trade seems to be working out just fine for their families.  And here's the thing, most of those guys are 10X happier than my friends who are glued to a computer 9 hours a day, and have to answer their cell phones at all hours of the night because they're stuck in this corporate culture we've created.

Sure, going to a 4 year school and gaining a well-rounded education is a very valuable experience.  I'm very grateful for my time at Ohio and the lessons I learned outside my core curriculum.   And every journalism/communications/TRADE (if you want to call it that) oriented student at Ohio is getting that.  However, at the end of the day, those students who actually focus on a specific career will have food and a roof... those who do not may have to rely on the trust fund to kick in...

People go to school for different reasons, mine (and I would assume the majority of students') was to put myself in the best possible position to be successful in a career of my choosing.  This idea that the entire purpose of a university is to only provide a broad education is ridiculous...  That's why we go to high school.  If all we are focused on at a university is a broad education, then why bother with specific majors at all?  Lets all just sit in 400 student english and math classes for four years and call it a degree...

To the point of Journalism and Video Production students being in a "downtrodden field"... how much video do you watch a day?  If you're like most Americans, it's a hell of a lot... from TV to Web, video is EVERYWHERE... There are literally thousands of 24 hour television stations... someone has to make that content... and the amount is increasing every day...

 

OK, I must add the following fact:  Ohio State no longer has a journalism school because of Ohio's exceptionally strong J-school.  I got my master's degree from the OSU School of Journalism.  The Board of Regents (an unnecessary level of bureaucracy, but that's another story) would not let them start a Ph.D. program because Ohio's was nationally ranked and it would have been too redundant.  It's probably the only time any other Buckeye State school has prevented A&M from offering a Ph.D. program.  OSU's reaction to this rebuff was to essentially fold their School of Journalism and merge it into what has now become the School of Communication.  While you can get a Ph.D. at OSU in communication, you can't get one in journalism.  Their journalism program is now basically a small, rather insignificant part of a larger school.  

Edit: Also, OU-COM is going to build two new research buildings in Athens in the next few years and the quantity of research will be taking a quantum leap forward over the next five years or so.  The quality of OU-COM's medical research is already stellar, but the quantity has been lacking.  That will be changing, so Paul has bad timing in making his case.  Ten years ago his criticisms would have made more sense.  In fact, this shift in the profile of Ohio University is one of the things that's driving the extreme level of criticism of McDavis from some of humanity faculty members.  Notice where the criticism is coming from in the main.  That will tell you a lot.  

Anyone who has ever tried to read osu's student newspaper, The Lantern, can see the results of that little experiment. It's 4 pages of osu football, 1 page of other osu sports, and 1 page of AP wire stories. We rip on The Post on here for the anti-athletics stance it takes sometimes, but at least it's a newspaper.

Devil's Advocate time, and trying to throw out why it is such a difficult (and ultimately, in my eyes, meaningless) distinction.

Is Cosmetology a profession or a trade?