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Topic: Temple back to BE?
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OhioCatFan
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Posted: 10/1/2011 11:09 PM
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Seems there's "secret meeting" tomorrow to discuss the issue.   If you read this carefully there are several qualifiers, including conference loyalty oaths from Rutgers and Connecticut.  Don't know that it will happen, but it'll be interesting to see what comes out of this meeting tomorrow. 
anorris
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Posted: 10/2/2011 1:38 AM
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Make 'em sign a deal for the exit -- they have to play our teams OOC.  Should be easy BCS wins, since we know they still can't beat a MAC team with a winning record!
Last Edited: 10/2/2011 1:38:52 AM by anorris
bobcat28
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Posted: 10/2/2011 6:45 AM
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Can anyone find their record against MAC teams with winning records since they joined?
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Posted: 10/2/2011 8:46 AM
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they are still waiting to break through with their first win
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Posted: 10/2/2011 10:37 AM
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Given that they've had the same level of success that Central Florida had when they were here, it makes perfect sense Temple gets the upgrade.

In all seriousitay, if Temple ain't here, what's UMass gonna want to do?
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 10/2/2011 10:44 AM
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Pete Chouteau wrote:expand_more
Given that they've had the same level of success that Central Florida had when they were here, it makes perfect sense Temple gets the upgrade.

In all seriousitay, if Temple ain't here, what's UMass gonna want to do?


They're gone before they start.  They have a clause in their contract with the MAC that lets them off the hook (I think with no penalties at all) if Temple bolts.  Another example of the fine negotiating skills of the MAC Commish.
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Posted: 10/2/2011 11:08 AM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Given that they've had the same level of success that Central Florida had when they were here, it makes perfect sense Temple gets the upgrade.

In all seriousitay, if Temple ain't here, what's UMass gonna want to do?


They're gone before they start.  They have a clause in their contract with the MAC that lets them off the hook (I think with no penalties at all) if Temple bolts.  Another example of the fine negotiating skills of the MAC Commish.


Of course if they really plan to move up to 1A, then they'll need a conference to sponsor them.  Will the MAC continue to sponsor them knowing that they'll be gone before year one?
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Posted: 10/2/2011 11:09 AM
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Pete Chouteau wrote:expand_more
Given that they've had the same level of success that Central Florida had when they were here, it makes perfect sense Temple gets the upgrade.

In all seriousitay, if Temple ain't here, what's UMass gonna want to do?


The UMASS board is very concerned at this point, and the definitely want to be able to stay in the MAC because they know they have not other seat in FBS.  I believe that the MAC has the option of the out for UMASS, not the other way around, and I actually think this is the dream scenario for the MAC to find a new, all sports invitee.  I would really like to see App State or Delaware, although I don't think Delaware is unhappy at this point in FCS.
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Posted: 10/2/2011 1:25 PM
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Why doesnt the MAC offer Mt Union ?

I dont believe the BE offer will come today. The Presidents are meeting to try to get an honest, straigh forward gauge where teams stand. Expect the Presidents to try to decipher where the FB and BB schools stand, to re affirm the BE brand and extend offers for FB only to Air Force and Navy. "]['emple will probably acquire the offer later this FB season. I will not miss the MAC at all...
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Posted: 10/2/2011 1:41 PM
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Mt. Union? Really?  I hope that's being sarcastic, I mean a man as smart as a Temple Grad would know that isn't feasible for a small school in NE Ohio.

I've been saying for a while, as much as some Big East Presidents would be against it (I mean Temple was kicked out for a reason), Temple will go back.  You can thank  Pitt, Syracuse and the people at Villanova for dragging their feet.  As for the MAC, I don't think they'll really miss Temple.  I still can't believe that Chryst admitted them as a football only member in the first place.  I do believe that Temple football wouldn't be where it is today without the MAC, but I don't blame you for not missing it either.
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Posted: 10/2/2011 3:00 PM
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MH55 wrote:expand_more
Why doesnt the MAC offer Mt Union ?

I dont believe the BE offer will come today. The Presidents are meeting to try to get an honest, straigh forward gauge where teams stand. Expect the Presidents to try to decipher where the FB and BB schools stand, to re affirm the BE brand and extend offers for FB only to Air Force and Navy. "]['emple will probably acquire the offer later this FB season. I will not miss the MAC at all...


Believe me, the feeling is mutual.  Temps hasn't brought anything to the MAC except screwing up the scheduling. 

As for going to the Big Least, without Pitt and Syracuse, you'll be going to a watered-down Big Least.  WVU (if they stay), USF (if they stay) and TCU (if they stay) will dominate in football.  Cincy and L'ville are hit or miss; Rutgers and  UConn are upper-level MAC equivalents; AFA  and Navy  are mid-level MAC equivalents.  When this league gets reconstituted, they'll be CUSA at best -- and lose their AQ status.  And Temps will still only draw 21 or 22,000 to the Missing Linc.
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Posted: 10/2/2011 3:14 PM
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Of course the remark about Mt. Union was sarcastic. Still do you think after yesterday the machine might not be able to give temple a pretty good game? I would never bet against Larry Keres, a much better coach then temple has ever had.
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Posted: 10/2/2011 7:54 PM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
Why doesnt the MAC offer Mt Union ?

I dont believe the BE offer will come today. The Presidents are meeting to try to get an honest, straigh forward gauge where teams stand. Expect the Presidents to try to decipher where the FB and BB schools stand, to re affirm the BE brand and extend offers for FB only to Air Force and Navy. "]['emple will probably acquire the offer later this FB season. I will not miss the MAC at all...


Believe me, the feeling is mutual.  Temps hasn't brought anything to the MAC except screwing up the scheduling. 

As for going to the Big Least, without Pitt and Syracuse, you'll be going to a watered-down Big Least.  WVU (if they stay), USF (if they stay) and TCU (if they stay) will dominate in football.  Cincy and L'ville are hit or miss; Rutgers and  UConn are upper-level MAC equivalents; AFA  and Navy  are mid-level MAC equivalents.  When this league gets reconstituted, they'll be CUSA at best -- and lose their AQ status.  And Temps will still only draw 21 or 22,000 to the Missing Linc.


You are way off in saying Air Force is mid-level MAC.  They often have 35-40,000 at their home games, can hang in with the big guys at times and even win more often than anyone in the MAC.  Bad argument.
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Posted: 10/2/2011 9:28 PM
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We could have 18,000 students at every game for the whole game if we had the culture of an academy.  Though attendance might not be required in a technical sense, it is highly encouraged by the brass and there is also intense peer pressure to attend these games.  Think what our overall attendance would be if we got this many students at each game.  OK, that's not going to happen, but as one who saw his first collegiate contest as a 4- or 5-year old boy at USNA I can't help but day dream.  That being said, I believe the statement being made was not about attendance but that the service academies are generally in the typical year on the level of the average MAC team and not as good as a top MAC team. 
Last Edited: 10/2/2011 9:30:32 PM by OhioCatFan
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Posted: 10/2/2011 9:58 PM
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colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
Why doesnt the MAC offer Mt Union ?

I dont believe the BE offer will come today. The Presidents are meeting to try to get an honest, straigh forward gauge where teams stand. Expect the Presidents to try to decipher where the FB and BB schools stand, to re affirm the BE brand and extend offers for FB only to Air Force and Navy. "]['emple will probably acquire the offer later this FB season. I will not miss the MAC at all...


Believe me, the feeling is mutual.  Temps hasn't brought anything to the MAC except screwing up the scheduling. 

As for going to the Big Least, without Pitt and Syracuse, you'll be going to a watered-down Big Least.  WVU (if they stay), USF (if they stay) and TCU (if they stay) will dominate in football.  Cincy and L'ville are hit or miss; Rutgers and  UConn are upper-level MAC equivalents; AFA  and Navy  are mid-level MAC equivalents.  When this league gets reconstituted, they'll be CUSA at best -- and lose their AQ status.  And Temps will still only draw 21 or 22,000 to the Missing Linc.


You are way off in saying Air Force is mid-level MAC.  They often have 35-40,000 at their home games, can hang in with the big guys at times and even win more often than anyone in the MAC.  Bad argument.


I wasn't referring to attendance.  I was referring to on-field performance.  They've been pretty streaky through the years.  They're on an uptick now with four winning seasons in a row.  Prior to that they had three awful years and two or three mediocre ones.  Frankly, I think they're in the mix just to keep TCU interested.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 10/2/2011 10:04 PM
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OCF Predicts: TCU will never play a down as a BE team.  I'm not as good as Carnac the Magnificent, but this one is kind of obvious. 
Last Edited: 10/2/2011 10:04:46 PM by OhioCatFan
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Posted: 10/2/2011 10:45 PM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
Why doesnt the MAC offer Mt Union ?

I dont believe the BE offer will come today. The Presidents are meeting to try to get an honest, straigh forward gauge where teams stand. Expect the Presidents to try to decipher where the FB and BB schools stand, to re affirm the BE brand and extend offers for FB only to Air Force and Navy. "]['emple will probably acquire the offer later this FB season. I will not miss the MAC at all...


Believe me, the feeling is mutual.  Temps hasn't brought anything to the MAC except screwing up the scheduling. 

As for going to the Big Least, without Pitt and Syracuse, you'll be going to a watered-down Big Least.  WVU (if they stay), USF (if they stay) and TCU (if they stay) will dominate in football.  Cincy and L'ville are hit or miss; Rutgers and  UConn are upper-level MAC equivalents; AFA  and Navy  are mid-level MAC equivalents.  When this league gets reconstituted, they'll be CUSA at best -- and lose their AQ status.  And Temps will still only draw 21 or 22,000 to the Missing Linc.


You are way off in saying Air Force is mid-level MAC.  They often have 35-40,000 at their home games, can hang in with the big guys at times and even win more often than anyone in the MAC.  Bad argument.


I wasn't referring to attendance.  I was referring to on-field performance.  They've been pretty streaky through the years.  They're on an uptick now with four winning seasons in a row.  Prior to that they had three awful years and two or three mediocre ones.  Frankly, I think they're in the mix just to keep TCU interested.

You're the one who mentioned attendence so I thought I would add something about Air Force.  Air Force had bad years in Deberrys' last few years for sure, were pretty good most of his years however.  I would guess that Air Force is in the mix because of some national interest in them. I personally can't believe it really works for them because of the travel requirements, but that doesn't seem to matter anymore.  A couple other things- I'm guessing that even when they were mediocre they were playing a much tougher schedule than the MAC teams were. If they're so bad why are they in the discussion for the Big 12? 
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Posted: 10/2/2011 10:46 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
We could have 18,000 students at every game for the whole game if we had the culture of an academy.  Though attendance might not be required in a technical sense, it is highly encouraged by the brass and there is also intense peer pressure to attend these games.  Think what our overall attendance would be if we got this many students at each game.  OK, that's not going to happen, but as one who saw his first collegiate contest as a 4- or 5-year old boy at USNA I can't help but day dream.  That being said, I believe the statement being made was not about attendance but that the service academies are generally in the typical year on the level of the average MAC team and not as good as a top MAC team. 


I would define a top level MAC team as one that is challenging for the MAC title. Taking the results of this year that would be Toledo, Ohio and Temple. There are exceptions like some of those really good Central Michigan teams but by and large your top teams average out around 9 or 10 wins from the MAC. Over the course of the last decade Air Force and Navy have stayed close to that mark. Navy has won 3 out of the last 4 against Notre Dame. They would be top level MAC teams. An average MAC team is Kent State or Ball State. Air Force and Navy have performed far better through the years.
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Posted: 10/2/2011 10:51 PM
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Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
We could have 18,000 students at every game for the whole game if we had the culture of an academy.  Though attendance might not be required in a technical sense, it is highly encouraged by the brass and there is also intense peer pressure to attend these games.  Think what our overall attendance would be if we got this many students at each game.  OK, that's not going to happen, but as one who saw his first collegiate contest as a 4- or 5-year old boy at USNA I can't help but day dream.  That being said, I believe the statement being made was not about attendance but that the service academies are generally in the typical year on the level of the average MAC team and not as good as a top MAC team. 


I would define a top level MAC team as one that is challenging for the MAC title. Taking the results of this year that would be Toledo, Ohio and Temple. There are exceptions like some of those really good Central Michigan teams but by and large your top teams average out around 9 or 10 wins from the MAC. Over the course of the last decade Air Force and Navy have stayed close to that mark. Navy has won 3 out of the last 4 against Notre Dame. They would be top level MAC teams. An average MAC team is Kent State or Ball State. Air Force and Navy have performed far better through the years.


Just checking records, Air Force has been 203-125-1 since 1984.  Middle of MAC huh?
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Posted: 10/2/2011 11:01 PM
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colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
[QUOTE=MH55]Why doesnt the MAC offer Mt Union ?

I dont believe the BE offer will come today. The Presidents are meeting to try to get an honest, straigh forward gauge where teams stand. Expect the Presidents to try to decipher where the FB and BB schools stand, to re affirm the BE brand and extend offers for FB only to Air Force and Navy. "]['emple will probably acquire the offer later this FB season. I will not miss the MAC at all...


Believe me, the feeling is mutual.  Temps hasn't brought anything to the MAC except screwing up the scheduling. 

As for going to the Big Least, without Pitt and Syracuse, you'll be going to a watered-down Big Least.  WVU (if they stay), USF (if they stay) and TCU (if they stay) will dominate in football.  Cincy and L'ville are hit or miss; Rutgers and  UConn are upper-level MAC equivalents; AFA  and Navy  are mid-level MAC equivalents.  When this league gets reconstituted, they'll be CUSA at best -- and lose their AQ status.  And Temps will still only draw 21 or 22,000 to the Missing Linc.
[/QUOTE)

You are way off in saying Air Force is mid-level MAC.  They often have 35-40,000 at their home games, can hang in with the big guys at times and even win more often than anyone in the MAC.  Bad argument.


I wasn't referring to attendance.  I was referring to on-field performance.  They've been pretty streaky through the years.  They're on an uptick now with four winning seasons in a row.  Prior to that they had three awful years and two or three mediocre ones.  Frankly, I think they're in the mix just to keep TCU interested.

You're the one who mentioned attendence so I thought I would add something about Air Force.  Air Force had bad years in Deberrys' last few years for sure, were pretty good most of his years however.  I would guess that Air Force is in the mix because of some national interest in them. I personally can't believe it really works for them because of the travel requirements, but that doesn't seem to matter anymore.  A couple other things- I'm guessing that even when they were mediocre they were playing a much tougher schedule than the MAC teams were. If they're so bad why are they in the discussion for the Big 12? 


I'm probably one of the few on here that has traveled to both Colorado Springs and Annapolis and viewed the stadiums in person. Navy has a Conference USA level stadium, fully renovated and 35,000 seats. Air Force is even a step beyond that with their facility. You can tell who has their fingers in looking at the service academies. Its Notre Dame. Notre Dame is comfortable with Navy as they play them already every year. Notre Dame has played in Colorado Springs and would probably be okay playing the Falcons in Denver every other year. Its Notre Dame that needs suitable opponents for its partial football scheduling agreements. Then I think its about bowl games, Navy and Air Force will take 20,000 to a bowl wherever they go. That is a combination hard to refuse for the Big East. 
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Posted: 10/2/2011 11:02 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
OCF Predicts: TCU will never play a down as a BE team.  I'm not as good as Carnac the Magnificent, but this one is kind of obvious. 


So do they go back to the MWC and try to get BYU to join them, or do they go elsewhere?
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Posted: 10/2/2011 11:09 PM
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colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
We could have 18,000 students at every game for the whole game if we had the culture of an academy.  Though attendance might not be required in a technical sense, it is highly encouraged by the brass and there is also intense peer pressure to attend these games.  Think what our overall attendance would be if we got this many students at each game.  OK, that's not going to happen, but as one who saw his first collegiate contest as a 4- or 5-year old boy at USNA I can't help but day dream.  That being said, I believe the statement being made was not about attendance but that the service academies are generally in the typical year on the level of the average MAC team and not as good as a top MAC team. 


I would define a top level MAC team as one that is challenging for the MAC title. Taking the results of this year that would be Toledo, Ohio and Temple. There are exceptions like some of those really good Central Michigan teams but by and large your top teams average out around 9 or 10 wins from the MAC. Over the course of the last decade Air Force and Navy have stayed close to that mark. Navy has won 3 out of the last 4 against Notre Dame. They would be top level MAC teams. An average MAC team is Kent State or Ball State. Air Force and Navy have performed far better through the years.


Just checking records, Air Force has been 203-125-1 since 1984.  Middle of MAC huh?


I know. Air Force has made many runs over that time span up into the top 25 rankings. It was BYU and Air Force #1 and #2 for years in the WAC. Even in recent years Air Force has stayed in the top 3 or 4 of what was a BCS worthy Mountain West conference with Utah and TCU. 
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 10/2/2011 11:11 PM
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JSF wrote:expand_more
OCF Predicts: TCU will never play a down as a BE team.  I'm not as good as Carnac the Magnificent, but this one is kind of obvious. 


So do they go back to the MWC and try to get BYU to join them, or do they go elsewhere?
  My guess is they end up in the Big 12.  The BE is a sinking ship. 
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Posted: 10/2/2011 11:51 PM
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Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
[
I'm probably one of the few on here that has traveled to both Colorado Springs and Annapolis


and I bet I'm one of the few that have been to CS, Annapolis, Athens and walked across the Karlov Most with a fresh pilsner and a "]["emple sweatshirt on and guess what....

You would crawl out of the MAC if you could. We just might. Don't hate cause we;re ina position you want to be in... 
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Posted: 10/3/2011 9:09 AM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
OCF Predicts: TCU will never play a down as a BE team.  I'm not as good as Carnac the Magnificent, but this one is kind of obvious. 


So do they go back to the MWC and try to get BYU to join them, or do they go elsewhere?
  My guess is they end up in the Big 12.  The BE is a sinking ship. 
                        Texas has publicly stated they do not want another team from texas - and basically the Longhorns run that conference.
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