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Topic: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....
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SBH
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Posted: 10/11/2011 2:46 PM
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I guess I'm not that worked up about this because no matter who we play and at what level, I just really enjoy coming to Athens for football games.  That's not gonna change.

I never expected Peden to be expanded to 45-50K or for the Columbus Dispatch to start covering us like a major program.  I've hoped for maybe 32k seats and steady, sustainable growth.

The only thing that could impact my future experiences as an OU fan would be any realignment of the Chinese buffet market that would reduce food quantity (#1 priority) and quality available through Court Street's China King.






Last Edited: 10/11/2011 2:50:29 PM by SBH
BobcatSports
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Posted: 10/11/2011 3:24 PM
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Love, just asking and don't mean it in a derogatory or mean-spirited way. Say we had a number of T Boone Pickens type of alums that would throw crazy money at the OHIO football program specifically and OHIO athletics in general what would you hope for the outcome to be? 
Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 10/11/2011 5:57 PM
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Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
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But, I don't blame the MAC Office much at all.  The universities in the MAC have collectively decided not to spend much on athletics. That makes the MAC what it is more than who's running the MAC.




I agree with this analysis more than 695's denunciation of MAC leadership.  Though mistakes have been made at the top, they are merely working with what they've been given.  As 69 points out, the institutional committments of the various MAC schools do not match up with the loftier FBS conferences. 
Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 10/11/2011 8:47 PM
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BobcatSports wrote:expand_more
Love, just asking and don't mean it in a derogatory or mean-spirited way. Say we had a number of T Boone Pickens type of alums that would throw crazy money at the OHIO football program specifically and OHIO athletics in general what would you hope for the outcome to be? 


I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I'd tear Peden stadium down and start over. Not so we can build a 60k seat stadium, but so we could build a great 30k seat stadium. If we had the kind of funds you're talking about, we'd have a state of the art scoreboard, and we'd play on real grass, because we wouldn't need to use Peden for other stuff just for income. If we had a better stadium, with 30K good seats, I think we'd draw better. I think we'd recruit better and this would help advance the program. If we had those things, I'd like to see where that might lead. These, to me, are tangible uses for funds. Buying our way out of, then into a conference seems like flushing money down the toilet.

I'd also feel better knowing that athletics was more self-supporting so short-sighted faculty wouldn't rail against sports every week in the local fishwrap.
Last Edited: 10/11/2011 8:48:42 PM by Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 10/11/2011 8:51 PM
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Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
[
But, I don't blame the MAC Office much at all.  The universities in the MAC have collectively decided not to spend much on athletics. That makes the MAC what it is more than who's running the MAC.


I agree with this analysis more than 695's denunciation of MAC leadership.  Though mistakes have been made at the top, they are merely working with what they've been given.  As 69 points out, the institutional committments of the various MAC schools do not match up with the loftier FBS conferences. 


I'm sorry, but this simply circles back to Love's point. The commitment (read: interest) just isn't there from enough of our own alumni to make these investments a reality. Schools that sell lots of tickets get on TV and go to major bowls.
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Posted: 10/11/2011 9:14 PM
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Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
[
But, I don't blame the MAC Office much at all.  The universities in the MAC have collectively decided not to spend much on athletics. That makes the MAC what it is more than who's running the MAC.




I agree with this analysis more than 695's denunciation of MAC leadership.  Though mistakes have been made at the top, they are merely working with what they've been given.  As 69 points out, the institutional committments of the various MAC schools do not match up with the loftier FBS conferences. 


I agree with Jeff and 69 that this comes from the universities.  I do, however, blame the leadership in the conference office for horrible negotiating of contracts with Temple and UMass.  I have no idea how things were a decade ago, but I wonder if Marshall and UCF had to pay a dime to get out.  I think they have been way behind in television and other marketing for both football and basketball for 2 decades.  For the past 20 years, I have watched the WAC, Missouri Valley, and Mountain West blow us away in growth and athletic prestige.  We have lowered the minimum acceptable standard.  The conference should have a spine and release EMU from its membership.  That would be a good start towards cleaning up the mess.
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Posted: 10/11/2011 9:35 PM
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Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
[
But, I don't blame the MAC Office much at all.  The universities in the MAC have collectively decided not to spend much on athletics. That makes the MAC what it is more than who's running the MAC.


I agree with this analysis more than 695's denunciation of MAC leadership.  Though mistakes have been made at the top, they are merely working with what they've been given.  As 69 points out, the institutional committments of the various MAC schools do not match up with the loftier FBS conferences. 


I'm sorry, but this simply circles back to Love's point. The commitment (read: interest) just isn't there from enough of our own alumni to make these investments a reality. Schools that sell lots of tickets get on TV and go to major bowls.



FYI, attendence and merch. are up. This is at $30 a ticket, not $5, or free. OUR ship doesnt seem to be sinking now, but it feels we are being pulled down, as there is no way a BIG anything conference would be interested in our membership. We'd  need luck, like a B.E. castoff and addition of a CUSA quality program to at least tread water.

Lets see where the funds play out in a year or two. I would love to at least see a renovation of Peden. I'd like to at least piss in FLUSHABLE troughs and have more than one drinking fountain...


LOVE, I keep thinking this same exact scenario, I thought I was just nuts and ignorant.
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Posted: 10/11/2011 10:33 PM
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all of this hyperbolic self loathing is so droll.  The MAC is a laughingstock......comic relief....whoa is me.. our OOC is unaccapentable....my beer is flat.... my dog doesn't love me....blah blah blah...

sounds like Marshall fans complaining about how terrible it was to be in the MAC (except for the multiple conf championships, bowl wins, top 25 rankings, and national recognition of course). 

whether we're in the MAC, the BE or the B1G its all the same- just win. I'm going to focus on rooting for my Bobcats to win the next game, you all in enjoy wallowing in your self loathing and "I told you so's".

Rumor is that the Temple game got bumped up to ESPN, while some of us will be enjoying seeing our favorite team in HD I guess some of y'all will be getting off on complaining about how embarassing Peden looks on TV, the student turn out, and on, and on, and on. Good luck with all that, hope you enjoy it. 
First Street Forever
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Posted: 10/11/2011 11:08 PM
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Ted Thompson wrote:expand_more
Actually, the opposite is true, more schools, even below current MAC levels, are going up to the FBS level.  Those considering and probably making the move include Delaware, UMass, Appy State, ODU, JDU, and a few others that I can't recall right at the moment.


Oh dear.

Sure, more schools are moving up to what is known today as FBS. But what is FBS today ain't going to be FBS in 5-10 years.

The so-called BCS schools will form a new, higher division level. Ohio, the rest of the MAC, these new and future FBS schools you speak off, various directionals and the rest of the dregs will be a level below. Oh, and the "BCS" level will have a playoff system. Call it FPS. And the fans will love it. 




So I'm assuming this new division will also apply to basketball?


No, not really. Not sure why you would make this kind of assumption. There is a boomtown brothel worth of D1 basketball teams that aren't in D1 football. In D1 basketball, there's currently a MAAC, and a MEAC, and maybe even a MAAAAAHC for all I know. I'm pretty sure having a MAC sans D1 football will be ok in D1 basketball...

Not really sure where you're going with this assumption. Help me out here, Teddy Ted - the hip hop ambassador...


Last Edited: 10/11/2011 11:09:16 PM by First Street Forever
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Posted: 10/12/2011 2:33 AM
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MAC would earn 2 million off Temple leaving.  Not a bad pay day for the league office.  MAC would have room for JMU, Delaware and ODU all-sports and get UMass to bring everything. Temple was never bringing hoops. Getting Temple to leave and getting paid 2 million is a win for the MAC. MAC collects some pocket change from these entry fees and they become a solid FBS conference with new blood in all-sports.  MAC would be at 16 teams and standing strong compared to other confrences like the Sun Belt and WAC. CUSA will take a major hit. With 7 million exits fees Marshall, UAB and Southern Miss are stuck with UTEP,Tulsa, Memphis, Tulane and Rice.  La Tech and FIU aren't gonna replace those teams they lost.  
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Posted: 10/12/2011 8:20 AM
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Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
Love, just asking and don't mean it in a derogatory or mean-spirited way. Say we had a number of T Boone Pickens type of alums that would throw crazy money at the OHIO football program specifically and OHIO athletics in general what would you hope for the outcome to be? 


I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I'd tear Peden stadium down and start over. Not so we can build a 60k seat stadium, but so we could build a great 30k seat stadium. If we had the kind of funds you're talking about, we'd have a state of the art scoreboard, and we'd play on real grass, because we wouldn't need to use Peden for other stuff just for income. If we had a better stadium, with 30K good seats, I think we'd draw better. I think we'd recruit better and this would help advance the program. If we had those things, I'd like to see where that might lead. These, to me, are tangible uses for funds. Buying our way out of, then into a conference seems like flushing money down the toilet.

I'd also feel better knowing that athletics was more self-supporting so short-sighted faculty wouldn't rail against sports every week in the local fishwrap.


Wow, this is so far off base I don't know where to begin.  Tear down Peden (including a $20 million in upgrades over the past 15 years) to build a facility that's only a little bit larger?  Peden is a great place to watch a game.  Yes, the restrooms on the student side are old and the undersides of both stands need some work, but just throw the whole thing away?  You do know you can build a new scoreboard without trashing the whole complex, right?  And finally, the reason we play on turf is not to accommodate lots of other sports/activities but because grass won't grow there. The field is beneath the water table. Do you really believe that a few thousand Columbus area residents are going to wake up on Saturday mornings and say, "Gee, they've got that great new scoreboard and those updated restrooms down in Athens - let's go to today's game?"

Restrooms are the least of our problems.  Old Municipal Stadium in Cleveland had restrooms out of the Dark Ages; I once stood in line for 30 minutes to pee against a brick wall in the men's room.  Yet the Browns packed the place week after week.

Hey, let's tear down the Convo, too - I really hate the scoreboards in there.
Last Edited: 10/12/2011 8:31:37 AM by SBH
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Posted: 10/12/2011 8:30 AM
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In DFC's defense, the question was what would you do if there was an Oklahoma State-style sugar daddy, so both question and answer are of theoretical Meigs County strength.

That being said: If I was out shooting for some food, and suddenly up from the ground came a bubbling crude (oil, that is.). I think I'd be inclined to start improving from the ground up.

Except for the grass. We're gonna have graduation under the retractable Pete-Dome with the first semi-outdoor climate control system so we no longer have to exclude extended family from the ceremonies, and we'll need turf for that. Turf with proper UV protection.
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Posted: 10/12/2011 9:01 AM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
Whether we're in the MAC, the BE or the B1G its all the same- just win. I'm going to focus on rooting for my Bobcats to win the next game, you all in enjoy wallowing in your self loathing and "I told you so's".


This
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Posted: 10/12/2011 9:45 AM
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A hypothetical question that has zero percent chance of ever happening, but I want to ask it simply to gauge thinking.  The Big East football conference dissolves.  The Big East basketball conference lives on with the religious schools that either do not have football (Marquette) or do not play FBS level (Nova) - this is a very real possibility.  The hypothetical: Who would want to join the basketball conference if it meant dropping a level in football. 

Again, I realize this is never going to happen so if your response is "this is stupid, it will never happen."  Don't waste your time - though, at a "less" level would you want to join the MVC which splits basketball and football if it meant dropping a level in football.  Thoughts?

The first scenario is a no-brainer - do it in a second to play in Big East basketball.  The second scenario (FCS in say, the Pioneer League (Drake, Dayton, San Diego) but then be in a more relevant basketball league also gets my attention.
Last Edited: 10/12/2011 10:02:08 AM by cc-cat
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Posted: 10/12/2011 10:08 AM
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For those "cats interested, "]["emple's invitation for all sports is imminent

http://philly.sbnation.com/temple-owls/2011/7/1/2253768/temple-football-joining-the-big-east-in-2012

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Posted: 10/12/2011 10:24 AM
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Better take advantage quick...Before you know it, the Big East will have the same AQ status as the MAC.
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Posted: 10/12/2011 10:40 AM
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Boise St joining the Big East would be more ridiculous than TCU.
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Posted: 10/12/2011 10:53 AM
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If the BE takes Temple and UCF it should lose its "AQ" status.  Even if Memphis is added that still does not justify letting the BE maintain its "AQ" status.  And, if rumors pan-out and WVU and Louisville go to the BXII with UConn and possibly Rutgers go to the ACC, the BE is dead no matter who else they add.  Finally, if it does maintain its "AQ" status, it will be hard to sit and watch realizing that both Temple and UCF once were fellow MAC members.
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Posted: 10/12/2011 11:28 AM
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MH55 wrote:expand_more
For those "cats interested, "]["emple's invitation for all sports is imminent

http://philly.sbnation.com/temple-owls/2011/7/1/2253768/temple-football-joining-the-big-east-in-2012


Congratulations. I for one am jealous. However, remember that your fan base and your programs have nothing to do with this move. Temple is moving up solely b/c of its location, location, and its location. Specifically, the geographic area and size of its location. Has nothing to do with the aesthetics (or lack thereof) of the location. Place is still a dump.

Wish us luck in the dumpster fire that is the MAC.

I'm willing to make a wager with anyone that Temple doesn't pay more then $500k to leave the conference.
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Posted: 10/12/2011 11:40 AM
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No question we would jump to the Big East if possible.  But as stated we don't have the location (TV homes), nor a  strong tradition in basketball (though let's not make Temple out to be an even swap for losing Syracuse or Pitt basketball...not even close) and they can suit up for football (the quality of the team is not an issue, they just need 11 guys on a side). 

Boise?  They'll bounce back out west just as TCU did when the Big 12...10...8 expands to survive.  Better for their recruiting.  They come to the Big East it is with dollars under the table as they are simply a short-term band-aid.
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Posted: 10/12/2011 11:51 AM
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Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
your programs have nothing to do with this move


I'd say their basketball program belongs...and with how weak the BE is in football, especially if WVU leaves, their football program probably also belongs.  Throw out the top 20 and bottom 20-30 teams in football or basketball rankings...and everybody else would play competitive games against each other.   That's why I've always been in favor of kicking the crappy MAC teams like EMU out of the league.

RU is going to be considered one of the BE powerhouses now.  I think Ohio would be .500 against them over the course of 10 games.  That's why I really don't think it matters what league Ohio really plays in.  Put us in the MAC, CUSA, water down BE, all really the same in my mind.
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Posted: 10/12/2011 11:56 AM
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Ryan Carey wrote:expand_more
your programs have nothing to do with this move


I'd say their basketball program belongs...and with how weak the BE is in football, especially if WVU leaves, their football program probably also belongs.  Throw out the top 20 and bottom 20-30 teams in football or basketball rankings...and everybody else would play competitive games against each other.   That's why I've always been in favor of kicking the crappy MAC teams like EMU out of the league.

RU is going to be considered one of the BE powerhouses now.  I think Ohio would be .500 against them over the course of 10 games.  That's why I really don't think it matters what league Ohio really plays in.  Put us in the MAC, CUSA, water down BE, all really the same in my mind.



No way we'd be .500 against Rutgers.  Maybe 1-2 wins tops in 10 games.
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Posted: 10/12/2011 11:57 AM
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Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
For those "cats interested, "]["emple's invitation for all sports is imminent

http://philly.sbnation.com/temple-owls/2011/7/1/2253768/temple-football-joining-the-big-east-in-2012


Congratulations. I for one am jealous. However, remember that your fan base and your programs have nothing to do with this move. Temple is moving up solely b/c of its location, location, and its location. Specifically, the geographic area and size of its location. Has nothing to do with the aesthetics (or lack thereof) of the location. Place is still a dump.

Wish us luck in the dumpster fire that is the MAC.

I'm willing to make a wager with anyone that Temple doesn't pay more then $500k to leave the conference.


Ehere does it say in that link that this is an all-sports invite?  
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Posted: 10/12/2011 12:11 PM
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SBH wrote:expand_more
your programs have nothing to do with this move


I'd say their basketball program belongs...and with how weak the BE is in football, especially if WVU leaves, their football program probably also belongs.  Throw out the top 20 and bottom 20-30 teams in football or basketball rankings...and everybody else would play competitive games against each other.   That's why I've always been in favor of kicking the crappy MAC teams like EMU out of the league.

RU is going to be considered one of the BE powerhouses now.  I think Ohio would be .500 against them over the course of 10 games.  That's why I really don't think it matters what league Ohio really plays in.  Put us in the MAC, CUSA, water down BE, all really the same in my mind.



No way we'd be .500 against Rutgers.  Maybe 1-2 wins tops in 10 games.


Disagree
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Posted: 10/12/2011 12:12 PM
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I'd love to see Ohio burn in a dumpster fire.....can we throw Rufus in there too? Wow, what a sight that would be!

REDHAWKS FOREVER!!!

Miami players don't need motivated by ugly black jerseys or the fact that they might win over half their games......Redhawks are motivated by themselves and always compete at "Harvard on the Hocking".........when's the next OU vs. Hocking College game.....that should be a close one.

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