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Topic: "Mid-major" Football-thanks for nothing ESPN!!!
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Alan Swank
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Posted: 11/11/2011 1:53 PM
Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
While I think its a disservice to students and student-athletes, the bottom line is that the Blackout game had 1.3 million viewers. Even if Peden sold out, there would be approximately 24-25 thousand people there. That is what the university, athletic department, and ESPN care about.


While a great time was had by all who attended or watched on tv, the 1.3 million was an anomaly.  Had the NBA been in session, this would have been an ESPN2 game.  I'm just not sure that $769,230.76 (assuming the conference doesn't take a share) is worth no home Saturday games after October 15th. 


I think Alan is on to something here.  The numbers don't add up I think.  Concession and additional ticket revenue due to weekend games has to be worth as much or more than the paltry sum paid by ESPN to the conference.


Let's say the Temple game is played on a Saturday November 6th in typical 50 degree cloudy weather at 2pm. Late season game with no pop in attendance from homecoming, parents weekend or band day. No ESPN pop for student incentive to attend. Ohio at best nets 2,000 additional paying customers and factoring in concessions-parking revenue could be making 50,000 additional dollars on a Saturday game. Its not like we are talking about having 39,000 down at the football stadium at 50 dollars a ticket vs.17,000 during midweek here. Its more like 19,000 compared to 17,500 midweek. The Temple and NIU games though a couple years back played on Saturdays only drew 15,000 so I'm not sure you can conclude attendance would be better for November Saturdays much less claim a major loss in home revenue during weeknights. Again use numbers here, not feelings or thoughts or a comparison with a program drawing 60,000 that dwarfs us.

$50,000 x2 games=$100,00= more than we're getting now.
Plus as mentioned before by others-how many season tickets do we lose because people know they can't make mid-week games?
I've noted before that the local businesses are losing out by not having weekend games with more fans in town.  Not that we should be interested in helping those businesses who can help us with their support.


Its annoying to have to reiterate this but Ohio moved to a 6 home game slate so season ticket holders that can't make the 2 Midweek home games still have 4 Saturday games to enjoy. The impact on local businesses may be more broad based with less people driving in. I'll give you that point. I'll say we're losing 100k per midweek in local economy money to go along with 50k in direct revenue. That pain all things relative is slight and the value of ESPN2 is worth more than 150k per home game for exposure. There could be a point where Peden is 37,000 on Saturdays and 22,000 on midweeks giving up a lot of home revenue but the program is far from that situation where there is a major deviance between midweek/saturday November home game support.


What?  Where did that "fact" come from.  

Not sure what you call a major deviation but the night with the huge promotion actually produced a crowd 20% smaller than the average of our first four games and that includes the Kent game which was a horrible weather afternoon.
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Posted: 11/11/2011 2:55 PM
anorris wrote:expand_more
2008 - vs. Buffalo (Tuesday, Oct. 28) - 10,042 - ESPNU [Ohio 2-7, 1-4] -- Keep in mind, it was near-freezing, windy, and actually sleeted during the game


I remember this game, my brother and I came down for it.  The weather was abysmal, but I had season tickets that year and had already missed two games so I wasn't missing that one.
DublinCat
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Posted: 11/11/2011 3:26 PM
Based on my 40+ years of attending Bobcat football games I will go out on a limb without looking it up and say Wednesday's Temple game was at or near a record crowd for a November Bobcat home game.  It is a totally different environment than September and October.  Historically by November our season has been over.  Frank brought with him Novembers that matter along with the most National TV exposure SEO has ever seen.  November is the perfect time for week night MAC games.  If these were in September or October I could understand the concern.  
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Posted: 11/11/2011 3:39 PM
OUPTgrad wrote:expand_more
I guess what I am getting at is..
 
Where is the line between having a "true" college atmosphere filled with students and alumni cheering vs sacrificing that for the "golden calf" of cash? {kind of a rhetorical question cause I know $$$$ is king}

As far as exposure for our players and possibly getting seen by scouts on the next level, ESPN is not a necessity anymore.  Last I checked there are plenty of "Lower Major" and even FCS players playing in the league on Sundays, and their schools never so much as even had a highlight on Sportscenter......

Bottom line, if a player has talent, in today's media filled world, you will get noticed.

But there is a line where if a school has too many games where families and alumni cannot attend, people may not be willing to drop cash on a full season ticket package, especially when they know that "said" stadium doesn't sellout and tickets can be purchased on gameday. 

No season ticket package equals less motivation to get to games.....is this a stretch...maybe, maybe not.


Without bothering to google this....

I'm willing to bet that out of our top 4 attended home games in the last 4 years (with best game day atmospheres) 2 off the top of my head were not on Saturday...

Pitt in 05:  Played on a Friday
Temple in 11:  played on a Thursday

I'd even go as far as to say that the Toledo game played in 05 is also probably up there as well, and that was played on a Friday as well.

Like it or not, the only thing that matters is ESPN
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 11/12/2011 2:52 AM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
While I think its a disservice to students and student-athletes, the bottom line is that the Blackout game had 1.3 million viewers. Even if Peden sold out, there would be approximately 24-25 thousand people there. That is what the university, athletic department, and ESPN care about.


While a great time was had by all who attended or watched on tv, the 1.3 million was an anomaly.  Had the NBA been in session, this would have been an ESPN2 game.  I'm just not sure that $769,230.76 (assuming the conference doesn't take a share) is worth no home Saturday games after October 15th. 


Alan--I like you and your stir the pot stuff.  But your post here is stunningly off the mark.

Can we assume that TV appearances have some value?  Then OUr recent run of years with late season mid-week games has value over being one of some 40-50 games on Saturday...with most of the nation thinking we are very much at the bottom of those games.  Is the exposure good for the program and the University?  I don't see how you could say it isn't given your interest in Bobcat sports.

And I don't care who, what, when, where or why.  This means something:  1.3 MILLION.

That this would need any explanation, any reasoning as to why this is good is beyond me.  Your post reeks of small-thinking, Athens-centric mentality.  IF you want the program and the University to mean more than that, you've got to think bigger than that.

perimeterpost
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Posted: 11/12/2011 9:54 AM
It sounds like we need to get rid of weekday games in basketball too because apparently sporting events not held on the weekend are detrimental to attendance and to the local economy.

Playing on ESPN in November is about marketing and you can make the case for or against the success of that marketing depending on what data points you chose to focus on. In regards to revenue gains vs revenue losses neither the losses from potential ticket sales or the gains from the TV contract seem to be very significant one way or the other. We had 17K for the Temple game, thats down 4k from the average of the previous 4 games, but how many Nov home games have had significantly larger crowds than that, historically?

The harder piece to judge is in the intangibles- what is the impact, if any, of playing on ESPN in Nov to the brand recognition of Ohio University? My personal opinion is that the good out weighs the bad, we looked GOOD against Temple, when you compare our game vs the other MAC games we defintely stand out as being a notch above the rest. And finally, as a kid that grew up in Ohio rooting for the Suckeyes because that was the only college team I had ever seen on TV, I like to think that there are young people out there who will see us and avoid going down the path to the dark side of the force.
OhioStunter
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Posted: 11/12/2011 11:26 AM
perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
I like to think that there are young people out there who will see us and avoid going down the path to the dark side of the force.



Me: I love this post.

Han Solo: I know.
Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 11/12/2011 11:27 AM
OrlandoCat wrote:expand_more
I guess what I am getting at is..
 
Where is the line between having a "true" college atmosphere filled with students and alumni cheering vs sacrificing that for the "golden calf" of cash? {kind of a rhetorical question cause I know $$$$ is king}

As far as exposure for our players and possibly getting seen by scouts on the next level, ESPN is not a necessity anymore.  Last I checked there are plenty of "Lower Major" and even FCS players playing in the league on Sundays, and their schools never so much as even had a highlight on Sportscenter......

Bottom line, if a player has talent, in today's media filled world, you will get noticed.

But there is a line where if a school has too many games where families and alumni cannot attend, people may not be willing to drop cash on a full season ticket package, especially when they know that "said" stadium doesn't sellout and tickets can be purchased on gameday. 

No season ticket package equals less motivation to get to games.....is this a stretch...maybe, maybe not.


Without bothering to google this....

I'm willing to bet that out of our top 4 attended home games in the last 4 years (with best game day atmospheres) 2 off the top of my head were not on Saturday...

Pitt in 05:  Played on a Friday
Temple in 11:  played on a Thursday

I'd even go as far as to say that the Toledo game played in 05 is also probably up there as well, and that was played on a Friday as well.

Like it or not, the only thing that matters is ESPN


I think DublinCat's point is spot-on.  Typical November games draw small crowds normally.  So the Temple game was a great crowd for a November game and demonstrates that it was well worth it to have it on a Wednesday on ESPN, even if it did cost some local area businesses some money (although as reported other threads, a lot of the bars had an increase in business in the 3rd and 4th quarters).  Like Monroe said, 1.3 million viewers saw Ohio!  A point not to be overlooked.

That being said, without looking at the attendance archives, I have to think that pretty much every Saturday game played in the month of September the last 10 years has outdrawn virtually every other weekday game other than the '05 Pitt game.  Heck even last year the mighty football powerhouse Gardner-Webb attracted 23,000 fans to Peden Stadium and I think the UConn game was over 24,000.  Most of the weekday games pale in comparison to September Saturday games go as far as attendance is concerned. 

I am curious to see what next year's conversion to the Semester sytem does for November football attendance.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 11/12/2011 12:28 PM
perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
  s we looked GOOD against Temple, when you compare our game vs the other MAC games we defintely stand out as being a notch above the rest. And finally, as a kid that grew up in Ohio rooting for the Suckeyes because that was the only college team I had ever seen on TV, I like to think that there are young people out there who will see us and avoid going down the path to the dark side of the force.


This.  You all who are advocating for Saturday games are only concerned about those who already know and care about OHIO.  TV exposure gains us a whole new audience.  Prospective students, players, friends, etc.

Sorry.  But those of you who are arguing against mid-week TV ESPN games are just not showing much sense.


Now, on a topic that actually does matter, one reason that we need to whompa BG is their uniform color.  By the deity of your choice, that orange look is horrifying.
giacomo
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Posted: 11/12/2011 2:24 PM
Let's face it: there is a pecking order and we ain't at the top of that list.
DublinCat
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Posted: 11/12/2011 2:59 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
Let's face it: there is a pecking order and we ain't at the top of that list.


At least we are not as low on the pecking order as UCONN and Pitt who played the October Wednesday night game the week before the Ohio vs. Temple game.  They played in a 3/4 empty Heinz Field.  Now that's low! 
Pataskala
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Posted: 11/12/2011 8:00 PM
Today's attendance at the Buffalo-EMU game (EMU's having its best season in years and Michigan played on the road, 2 1/2 hours after EMU's kickoff) -- 3,830.

Announced attendance for KSU-Akron: 19,889 (can't verify this; only watched bits and pieces).

I think the schools that schedule midweek games probably break even.  But the losers are the local businesses that get a bump from fans who come in for weekend games.
Recovering Journalist
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Posted: 11/12/2011 11:10 PM
I actually went to the Akron game. 19k seems high, but only by a bit. No matter how bad those teams are, that rivalry gets people in seats. At the risk of beating a dead kangaroo, Akron is horrible.
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Posted: 11/13/2011 12:22 AM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
  s we looked GOOD against Temple, when you compare our game vs the other MAC games we defintely stand out as being a notch above the rest. And finally, as a kid that grew up in Ohio rooting for the Suckeyes because that was the only college team I had ever seen on TV, I like to think that there are young people out there who will see us and avoid going down the path to the dark side of the force.


This.  You all who are advocating for Saturday games are only concerned about those who already know and care about OHIO.  TV exposure gains us a whole new audience.  Prospective students, players, friends, etc.

Sorry.  But those of you who are arguing against mid-week TV ESPN games are just not showing much sense.


Now, on a topic that actually does matter, one reason that we need to whompa BG is their uniform color.  By the deity of your choice, that orange look is horrifying.


Im going to agree with this also.  Since I've graduated I've been in a depressed state because I am no longer around Bobcat faithful.  Instead I am stuck in Buckeye country where the only school you talk about is the buckeyes and no one else.  Because of the Temple game being on ESPN, people have actually talked to me about it at the local sports bar due to my wearing bobcat gear and their knowing that I went there (and I mean they mentioned they watched it and that we looked awesome {and added props to the unis}).  It's awesome if we can get people who love Ohio to the games but to show people outside of Bobcat Nation who we are then that is even more awesome in my opinion.  It even makes it better when people from work are asking me each week how we're doing.  I can understand how we need to keep games accessible to those who love us, but ESPN presents golden opportunities to prove that we are becoming relevant in the sports stage.
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Posted: 11/14/2011 5:14 PM
Pataskala wrote:expand_more
Today's attendance at the Buffalo-EMU game (EMU's having its best season in years and Michigan played on the road, 2 1/2 hours after EMU's kickoff) -- 3,830.

Announced attendance for KSU-Akron: 19,889 (can't verify this; only watched bits and pieces).

I think the schools that schedule midweek games probably break even.  But the losers are the local businesses that get a bump from fans who come in for weekend games.


To be fair, Kent and Akron are pretty close to each other.
Paul Graham
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Posted: 11/14/2011 5:25 PM
Ringo wrote:expand_more
  s we looked GOOD against Temple, when you compare our game vs the other MAC games we defintely stand out as being a notch above the rest. And finally, as a kid that grew up in Ohio rooting for the Suckeyes because that was the only college team I had ever seen on TV, I like to think that there are young people out there who will see us and avoid going down the path to the dark side of the force.


This.  You all who are advocating for Saturday games are only concerned about those who already know and care about OHIO.  TV exposure gains us a whole new audience.  Prospective students, players, friends, etc.

Sorry.  But those of you who are arguing against mid-week TV ESPN games are just not showing much sense.


Now, on a topic that actually does matter, one reason that we need to whompa BG is their uniform color.  By the deity of your choice, that orange look is horrifying.


Im going to agree with this also.  Since I've graduated I've been in a depressed state because I am no longer around Bobcat faithful.  Instead I am stuck in Buckeye country where the only school you talk about is the buckeyes and no one else.  Because of the Temple game being on ESPN, people have actually talked to me about it at the local sports bar due to my wearing bobcat gear and their knowing that I went there (and I mean they mentioned they watched it and that we looked awesome {and added props to the unis}).  It's awesome if we can get people who love Ohio to the games but to show people outside of Bobcat Nation who we are then that is even more awesome in my opinion.  It even makes it better when people from work are asking me each week how we're doing.  I can understand how we need to keep games accessible to those who love us, but ESPN presents golden opportunities to prove that we are becoming relevant in the sports stage.


Agreed! Also, I can convince my friends to do a happy hour with me on Wednesday/Thursday and we can go to sports bars and basically have the run of the place.

Plus, it's nice because it gives you something to do midweek. If I asked a friend to give up a Saturday for MAC football I doubt I could find any takers. 

Maybe it sucks for those who want to attend the game, but for those of us outside of Ohio, it's pretty nice.
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Posted: 11/14/2011 6:24 PM
I agree with the idea that there are tradeoffs involved.  I am one of those who can't' drive 2 hours and get to the game so I personally like mid-week games that are on TV that I get (not ESPNU), but I am more concerned about what's best for Ohio -not just me.  I just don't think it's that clear cut, but I'm in the minority on most things so I'm pretty sure I must be wrong.  Being on ESPN is probably a good thing.  Now if we can just get rid of the NBA for another 10 years or so, this may really work out.
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Posted: 11/14/2011 7:48 PM
Either that or we start Boise Stating the MAC (yes, BSU is now a verb)
OUcats82
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Posted: 11/15/2011 8:40 AM
LoganElm_grad09 wrote:expand_more
Either that or we start Boise Stating the MAC (yes, BSU is now a verb)


If we do that then we definitely need to change the playing surface in Peden to one of our school colors.....let's go with a green field! Oh, shoot, wait
Last Edited: 11/15/2011 8:41:01 AM by OUcats82
Chuck_IV
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Posted: 11/15/2011 11:10 AM
These weekday games have been GREAT exposure for Ohio. I live in CT and believe it or not people are taking notice to not only OHIO, but the MAC. I was walking down the hall at work the other day and heard people talking about the Toledo/NIU shootout. Over the last week or so I've also had several people say to me "Oh I saw them play Temple the other day(or last week) on ESPN" when I told them I went to Ohio.

It's this type of exposure that gains a program/conference better recruits and better teams. The eventually will lead to bigger paydays for the teams/conference. It goes along the lines of you have to spend money to make money. While they aren't spending it per se with the deals, they are taking less of it, to get the exposure, in hopes it will lead to more respect and bigger paydays later.

It definitely a risk worth taking. I LOVE it and hope it continues.
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Posted: 11/15/2011 11:40 AM
I had a friend text me during the Temple game "unis are lookin real sharp." Not only was he watching the game but he loved the uniforms. In DELAWARE! Most people in this state don't even know where Ohio is, much less that there is a university in Ohio that isn't OSU.
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Posted: 11/15/2011 2:19 PM
Jim Rome was talking about MAC football on the box tonight. Says he loves those guys and knows more about Northern Illinois than he does about LSU. 
DublinCat
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Posted: 11/15/2011 4:00 PM
The MAC may not be getting as much $$ as CUSA, WAC or MW but they certainly are getting more National TV exposure.  Four and a possible six straight games on prime time National is huge for the Bobcats.  CUSA is only available on a seldom watched cable network.  
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 11/15/2011 4:30 PM
Uh, for you naysayers about mid-week MAC, enjoy it while you can.  'cause the big boys are watching and we are not likely to have this forum much longer.  At least not all to ourselves.  It's too good for others not to want some of this.  Which is your proof that it works.


And, for the record....I know; who cares....some of us have long advocated mid-week MAC TV as a splendid idea.


Only question may be:  Are too many teams going to go for mid-week games such that there will be an excess.  The only thing that may stop there from being an excess is that weekend games get bigger viewership.
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Posted: 11/16/2011 9:55 AM
Interesting thought, Monroe.  It's hard to imagine that the BCS conferences could improve their overall take of the money and recruiting pie using mid-week games.  However, as a method of simply blocking programs like ours from receiving that additional exposure and income, it must have some appeal.  I hate to be so cynical about it but history indicates that magnanimity isn't their strong suit.  The NCAA restrictions on total football scholarships enacted decades ago were a response to schools like A&M, Alabama, etc. doling out schollies to marginal players to keep them off opponent's rosters.  It is rumored that Wayne Woodrow Hayes raised that tactic to an art.
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