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Topic: The Hammer Comes Down on Penn State
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OhioCatFan
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Posted: 7/22/2012 12:03 PM
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I thought that we needed a new thread now that the penalties are about to be announced.  

ESPN is reporting that it will not include the death penalty, but that "the penalties . . . are considered to be so harsh that the death penalty may have been preferable." 
Last Edited: 7/22/2012 12:04:17 PM by OhioCatFan
Pete Chouteau
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Posted: 7/22/2012 4:56 PM
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I've reserved comment because this situation is so sad and tragic. I have great difficulty verbalizing the feelings I have, especially given how this parallels scandals that have shaken my faith.

This, though, I believe:

Given that knowledge of terrible things was ignored on athletic and academic levels, clearly in the interest of preserving the program and the institution, Pennsylvania State University failed in not only it's own mission, but the missions of both athletic and academic organizations it is a member of.

It would not be inappropriate for the NCAA, the Big Ten, or any other organization to revoke PSU's membership.

This situation is that heinous.

This, also, I believe:

It won't happen. There is too much money involved.

The concept of compromising integrity to preserve the program and institution is widespread. It is doubtful there is an NCAA member that can cast the first stone for fear of their own glass house.
medler
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Posted: 7/22/2012 4:57 PM
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Pete: I will subscribe to your magazine. Brilliant post.
Pataskala
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Posted: 7/22/2012 7:14 PM
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The NCAA will do more than they did to Carolina but not as much as they're going to do to Fiami(FL).  The clamor for them to do something will mean they'll find some hook (I heard "ethics violations" as one in) to punish PSU beyond all the other punishments coming down on PSU.  But the full hammer is being reserved for the Canes.  That program had problems less than 20 years ago and is back for more.  They've got "SMU" written all over them.
Mike Coleman
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Posted: 7/22/2012 8:02 PM
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20 scholarships per year for five years. FCS level. Just what Adele says...rumor has it. We'll see what really happens.
L.C.
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Posted: 7/22/2012 8:51 PM
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Mike Coleman wrote:expand_more
20 scholarships per year for five years. FCS level. Just what Adele says...rumor has it. We'll see what really happens.

Twenty is a realistic number. The 50 someone suggested earlier would not be. To reduce by 50, they would have to remove scholarships from those that already have them, which punishes student athletes themselves. With a reduction of twenty, they will simply not be able to give very many, if any scholarships this year, which will be a harsh blow to the program, but not punish the students.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 7/22/2012 9:07 PM
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Can someone explain the math (or should I say arithmetic) to me.  FBS schools have a limit of a total of 85 scholarships total, and 25 "counters" per year.  So,, are you saying that the NCAA may limit PSU to only 20 "counters" per year?  That could still be a total of 80 scholarship over four years -- not much of a penalty given the circumstances.  I must be not understanding something here.  Please enlighten me.   
Last Edited: 7/22/2012 9:08:39 PM by OhioCatFan
Mike Coleman
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Posted: 7/22/2012 9:19 PM
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First off, let me say this comes from friends of mine who are OU alumni who work at the NCAA. They also tell me this is just rumor going around, no one is putting their name on it, and that the real punishment is very guarded info. When I say 20 scholarships, I'm talking a max of 65 (not 85) scholarships allowed per year for the next five years, not a max of 20 signings per year. Immediately, and PSU will have to cut loose some schollies for this upcoming year. Of course, this is just all unemotional speculation. We'll see what the penalties are, and if they hold up. I am not claiming to have inside knowledge of penalties, but I do know what is being discussed amongst staff members, FWIW. I will say this caught a lot in the Indy office off-guard with the quickness of the adjudication, if the reports are to believed.
Casper71
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Posted: 7/22/2012 9:28 PM
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This should be on the institution and the individuals involved.  NONE of the current players did anything wrong (I guess).  So freeze PSU where they are for two years with no new schollies for that period of time.
Last Edited: 7/22/2012 9:29:48 PM by Casper71
L.C.
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Posted: 7/22/2012 10:24 PM
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They probably have 85 on scholarship now, and will probably lose 20-23 players this year, which will put them around 62-65. If their limit drops to 65, they will be able to keep all those on scholarship that already have it, but not be able to give any new ones. The year after that they would be down to 45ish, and be able to give perhaps 18-20.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 7/22/2012 10:54 PM
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OK, let's see if I understand: You're saying (assuming the rumor is true) that they would be given a cap of 65 scholarships (FCS level).  This would kick in 2013 when they would probably have no scholarships to give out.  Then the next year they could give out about 20 to get back to 65.  This cap would be in place for about five years.  Now, that would be a strict penalty.
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Posted: 7/23/2012 7:26 AM
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My initial thought was that the NCAA would do just enough to avoid a lawsuit on whether they have the authority to do this.  But after reading the full article thoroughly, I now think if they go as harsh as indicated, lawsuits will be inevitable since they don't have a specific rule to hook the punishment into and they've circumvented their own processes.  This could have a long-lasting effect on the parameters of the NCAA's jurisdiction.  If the NCAA succeeds, then they'll have pretty much a free rein.  If they don't, they'll be limited to specific rules and their processes.
Rowdy Rufus
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Posted: 7/23/2012 7:28 AM
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Have also heard rumors that they may not be permitted to have any games on TV which will now have an impact on the Bobcats.
 

colobobcat66
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Posted: 7/23/2012 9:38 AM
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Unless Penn State agreed to whatever the NCAA decided, this will not happen until the lawyers and courts decide something. Just my take.
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Posted: 7/23/2012 9:43 AM
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Rowdy Rufus wrote:expand_more

Have also heard rumors that they may not be permitted to have any games on TV which will now have an impact on the Bobcats.
 



Nothing was said about this. No one has asked nor was it mentioned as one of the penalties. Sounds like a silly rumor.
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Posted: 7/23/2012 9:45 AM
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colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
Unless Penn State agreed to whatever the NCAA decided, this will not happen until the lawyers and courts decide something. Just my take.


The language used, showed some grey area, but it sounds Penn State already signed off on this. It appears unlikely for an appeal. However, the answer to the question was quite evasive.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 7/23/2012 9:47 AM
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Lash wrote:expand_more
Unless Penn State agreed to whatever the NCAA decided, this will not happen until the lawyers and courts decide something. Just my take.


The language used, showed some grey area, but it sounds Penn State already signed off on this. It appears unlikely for an appeal. However, the answer to the question was quite evasive.


No the answer was very direct.  It was said that PSU had signed a "consent agreement" on all the penalties.
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Posted: 7/23/2012 9:49 AM
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Casper71 wrote:expand_more
This should be on the institution and the individuals involved.  NONE of the current players did anything wrong (I guess).  So freeze PSU where they are for two years with no new schollies for that period of time.


It was said that all student athletes currently under scholarship at Penn State can remain under scholarship if they meet academic requirements. But all players can transfer to any FBS school immediately. However, only reason to transfer is because of the 4-year postseason ban - and that it may be difficult to compete in the future. Seems like a lame reason to transfer.
Last Edited: 7/23/2012 9:52:33 AM by Lash
Lash
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Posted: 7/23/2012 9:51 AM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Unless Penn State agreed to whatever the NCAA decided, this will not happen until the lawyers and courts decide something. Just my take.


The language used, showed some grey area, but it sounds Penn State already signed off on this. It appears unlikely for an appeal. However, the answer to the question was quite evasive.


No the answer was very direct.  It was said that PSU had signed a "consent agreement" on all the penalties.


Ok. He just never would say if they were expected an appeal or not ... I figured since he said PSU signed the "consent agreement" that there wouldn't be an appeal. 
mf279801
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Posted: 7/23/2012 9:53 AM
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Lash wrote:expand_more
This should be on the institution and the individuals involved.  NONE of the current players did anything wrong (I guess).  So freeze PSU where they are for two years with no new schollies for that period of time.


It was said that all student athletes currently under scholarship at Penn State can remain under scholarship if they meet academic requirements. But all players can transfer to any FBS school immediately. However, only reason to transfer is because o thef 4-year postseason ban - and that it may be difficult to compete in the future. Seems like a lame reason to transfer.


I think that transfers happen fairly frequently under these circumstances. Players, especially top flight players, want to play for conference championships, national championships, and in bowls. This means that any player this year, as well as any player next year who has only 3 years (or less) of eligibility left, as well as any player 2014-15 year who has only 2 years (or less) of eligibility left, as well as any player 2015-16 who has only 1 year of eligibility left can transfer penalty free.
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Posted: 7/23/2012 9:53 AM
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1. $60 million fine, which will fund an endowment for child abuse victims
2. Vacate all football wins from 1998-2011, making Paterno no longer the winningest coach in history (drops to 12th)
3. 4 Year Post-season ban for football
4. 5 year probation for all sports
5. Football scholarship reduction, but have seen various interpretations of this, about 20 a year for 4 years.
6. Penn State football players can transfer and have immediate eligibility.
Last Edited: 7/23/2012 9:59:52 AM by L.C.
Rowdy Rufus
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Posted: 7/23/2012 9:55 AM
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Do the players have to make the decision now if they want to transfer or can they decide anytime between now and 4 years and still not have to sit out.

Just wondering about the rule.  If they have to make it now then we may unfortunately see a mass exodus from Penn State.  

This is not how I want to see the Bobcats take on PSU.   I hope the players from PSU decide to stay.

 

L.C.
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Posted: 7/23/2012 10:01 AM
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Big Ten will have additional sanctions against Penn State, to be announced today at 11.
Tim Burke
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Posted: 7/23/2012 10:02 AM
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Rowdy Rufus wrote:expand_more

Do the players have to make the decision now if they want to transfer or can they decide anytime between now and 4 years and still not have to sit out.

Just wondering about the rule.  If they have to make it now then we may unfortunately see a mass exodus from Penn State.  

This is not how I want to see the Bobcats take on PSU.   I hope the players from PSU decide to stay.

 



Current players and current PSU recruits have their full five-year period of eligibility to elect to transfer without penalty.

Lash
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Posted: 7/23/2012 10:05 AM
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mf279801 wrote:expand_more
This should be on the institution and the individuals involved.  NONE of the current players did anything wrong (I guess).  So freeze PSU where they are for two years with no new schollies for that period of time.


It was said that all student athletes currently under scholarship at Penn State can remain under scholarship if they meet academic requirements. But all players can transfer to any FBS school immediately. However, only reason to transfer is because o thef 4-year postseason ban - and that it may be difficult to compete in the future. Seems like a lame reason to transfer.


I think that transfers happen fairly frequently under these circumstances. Players, especially top flight players, want to play for conference championships, national championships, and in bowls. This means that any player this year, as well as any player next year who has only 3 years (or less) of eligibility left, as well as any player 2014-15 year who has only 2 years (or less) of eligibility left, as well as any player 2015-16 who has only 1 year of eligibility left can transfer penalty free.


The only thing is that we are a month and a half away from the season. You have been practicing all summer, which I assume hasn't been easy.

If you transfer this year, it will be hard to make an impact at another FBS school in year one.

But, if you are a backup player who is an underclassman - you are right, be a good time to transfer.

Didn't know about the future years, don't believe that was said in the press conference (may have, watching and working at the same time, so I may have missed it) -  but it was probably included in a release of some kind. Good info, thanks for sharing.
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