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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: TOP 25 votes
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L.C.
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Posted: 9/16/2012 1:57 PM
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Ohio drops from 29 to 50 in Sagarin's following teh Marshall win. They nab only 5 votes in the Coach's poll, good for 42d. No doubt bad loss by Virginia to Ga Tech hurt PSU, which in turn hurt Ohio. Similarly the loss by NMSU to UTEP hurt.
Last Edited: 9/16/2012 2:00:15 PM by L.C.
El Gato Roberto
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Posted: 9/16/2012 4:01 PM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
Ohio drops from 29 to 50 in Sagarin's following teh Marshall win. They nab only 5 votes in the Coach's poll, good for 42d. No doubt bad loss by Virginia to Ga Tech hurt PSU, which in turn hurt Ohio. Similarly the loss by NMSU to UTEP hurt.
It is going to be a frustrating season if we allow ourselves to get absorbed in scoreboard watching and the subsequent "reading of the tea leaves". This is just too much fun to get caught up in the polls. Here's my plan. Sit back and enjoy and know that we are all witness to a special season. Watch (& listen to) our guys play them one game at a time. Whatever happens: is what it is.

Go Cats!
DXer
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Posted: 9/16/2012 4:44 PM
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You have to ignore the polls. The bias is obvious. Proof positive is the Sagarin poll. After Week 1 there were several situations where team A had beaten team B, yet team B was still rated higher in the Sagarin poll. This is something that is absolutely and totally illogical. There was at least one game I noticed where the winning margin was very significant, yet Sagarin still said that the losing team was "better" than the winning team. Later in the season fans of the polls can apologize for the polls because the data is so intertwined that you can ague anything you want. But after only one week of play the results are perfectly clear and can't be argued against. Of course, I'm fully aware that the highly-publicized schools will always say, "Yeah, I know we lost to our opponent, but we are still better then them." Sagarin obviously has the same bias.
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Posted: 9/16/2012 5:05 PM
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Until the Sagarin is "well connected," it means nothing. This is from Jeff Sagarin himself. Please do not judge those rankings until that time.
L.C.
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Posted: 9/16/2012 5:16 PM
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DXer wrote:expand_more
... After Week 1 there were several situations where team A had beaten team B, yet team B was still rated higher in the Sagarin poll. This is something that is absolutely and totally illogical....

The reason is that until the teams are "well-connected", there is a certain amount of weight given to his initial starting positions, where are are somewhat arbitrary. For Ohio the starting place was #89, as I recall. Within another week or two the arbitrary data will be removed, and only game performance will matter.

El Gato Roberto wrote:expand_more
.... This is just too much fun to get caught up in the polls. Here's my plan. Sit back and enjoy and know that we are all witness to a special season. Watch (& listen to) our guys play them one game at a time. Whatever happens: is what it is.

Go Cats!
Good plan. I don't think anyone is too worried about the polls. I think that the polls are just being watched as a curiousity, and it will be until the novelty wears off. I don't see anyone here really arguing that the ranking is too high, or too low.  The fact that Ohio is getting votes in the polls is just another reminder to foes that Ohio has the eyepatch, and a reason for the foes to bring their best against Ohio.
Last Edited: 9/16/2012 5:26:21 PM by L.C.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 9/16/2012 6:21 PM
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I agree with DXer . . .  but understand what L.C. and JSF say about the methodology of these ratings.  I believe that the methodology is fundamentally flawed if the arbitrary data overwhelms the actual play on the field after week one, let alone week two or three.  Play on the field should always trump arbitrary assumptions.
TomCat
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Posted: 9/16/2012 6:22 PM
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SAIP:  CBS Sports has moved us up to 20th!!!!!
JSF
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Posted: 9/16/2012 6:33 PM
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It's not that the methodology is flawed, it's that the rankings aren't meant to be published at all until they're well connected. USA Today, however, doesn't care.
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 9/16/2012 6:36 PM
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JSF wrote:expand_more
USA Today, however, doesn't care.


Gannett has considered making this the paper's motto.
Nash'Cat
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Posted: 9/16/2012 7:45 PM
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TomCat wrote:expand_more
SAIP:  CBS Sports has moved us up to 20th!!!!!


CBS Sports also has Alabama at 5, tO$U at 6, and USC still at 2 (even after a loss to Stanford...who is at 21)...I wouldn't rely on that poll at all...
L.C.
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Posted: 9/16/2012 9:36 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
I agree with DXer . . .  but understand what L.C. and JSF say about the methodology of these ratings.  I believe that the methodology is fundamentally flawed if the arbitrary data overwhelms the actual play on the field after week one, let alone week two or three.  Play on the field should always trump arbitrary assumptions.

The problem is that isn't possible until you have enough games. If team A beats B, and team C beats D, and you have no other information, is A better than C? There is no way to know with just that information. After a few more weeks, when A beats D and B beats C, you can now have a ranking that makes sense.

I think we all agree, including Mr. Sagarin. The methodology is flawed during the first few weeks, and the ratings during those weeks should not be taken seriously.
mf279801
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Posted: 9/16/2012 10:48 PM
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L.C. wrote:expand_more
I agree with DXer . . .  but understand what L.C. and JSF say about the methodology of these ratings.  I believe that the methodology is fundamentally flawed if the arbitrary data overwhelms the actual play on the field after week one, let alone week two or three.  Play on the field should always trump arbitrary assumptions.

The problem is that isn't possible until you have enough games. If team A beats B, and team C beats D, and you have no other information, is A better than C? There is no way to know with just that information. After a few more weeks, when A beats D and B beats C, you can now have a ranking that makes sense.

I think we all agree, including Mr. Sagarin. The methodology is flawed during the first few weeks, and the ratings during those weeks should not be taken seriously.


The Sagarin rankings aren't a "poll", its a ranking based on statistical criteria and head to head matchups as well as strength of schedule. The "bias" and "arbitrary assumptions" aren't of the "Well, Notre Dame is always good because Notre dame notre dame notre dame". They are instead "well, if people want to be able to read this poll before the season is 6 weeks old, I've got to put in some starting numbers. They're meaningless and are COMPLETELY removed from the equation before the first BCS poll comes out, though, so its alright so long as everyone reads the lengthy disclaimer at the top of the page"
JSF
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Posted: 9/17/2012 1:51 AM
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Brian Smith wrote:expand_more
USA Today, however, doesn't care.


Gannett has considered making this the paper's motto.


+Rhodes, sir.
Bobcatbob
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Posted: 9/17/2012 1:31 PM
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"Number 42 in the polls but number one in the hearts of their (fellow Bobcats)."
OUbobcat9092
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Posted: 9/17/2012 2:29 PM
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We are tied for #29 in the ESPN Power Rankings this week!

http://espn.go.com/college-football/powerrankings

Others receiving votes: Tennessee (18), Northwestern (16), Oregon State (11), Rutgers (6), Ohio (6), Baylor (5), Virginia Tech (4), Oklahoma State (4), Cincinnati (3)
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