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Topic: Who do I root against?
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OhioCatFan
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Posted: 9/28/2012 1:05 PM
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Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
He roots for Ohio to be successful the way rich people cheer for poor people to get off welfare, he doesn't want the poor to one day become successful enough to join his country club, he just wants them to be good enough to get a job making his meals, cleaning his house and mowing his lawn.

he believes in Jim Crow for college athletics and yet fancies himself as someone who would march with us in Selma.


Barack? Is that you?


I hear a distant train whistle.  All aboard for Siberia!
Doc Bobcat
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Posted: 9/28/2012 1:10 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
He roots for Ohio to be successful the way rich people cheer for poor people to get off welfare, he doesn't want the poor to one day become successful enough to join his country club, he just wants them to be good enough to get a job making his meals, cleaning his house and mowing his lawn.

he believes in Jim Crow for college athletics and yet fancies himself as someone who would march with us in Selma.


Barack? Is that you?


I hear a distant train whistle.  All aboard for Siberia!


Yeah....pretty much so.....Selma is in the diner car and Jim Crow just headed to the observation deck.
Victory
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Posted: 9/28/2012 3:18 PM
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I have to say that if we were really all about not-judging a program's resume and potential just because of their past social status then we should only be thinking about leaving the MAC as a last resort.  I don't like the idea of stabbing your parteners for 50 years in the back anyway.

I think that in reality going to CUSA would accomplish nothing and only serve to put the long term future a risk.  That isn't any kind of step up in competition anymore and a lot less stable.  I don't like the idea of the Big East deciding that it can use us for numbers for a while before it ultimately falls apart again and leaves a bunch of programs behind.

Sure, the ACC or Big Ten would be a stable alley to high revenue and exposure but in all honesty the odds of that happening any time soon are tiny at best.  We would need to build ourselves up substantially before they would even look at us.

We should be worried about improving ourselves as a member of the MAC because if for nothing other than that is where we are likely to be for the foreseeable future.
Nash'Cat
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Posted: 9/28/2012 3:55 PM
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Victory wrote:expand_more
I have to say that if we were really all about not-judging a program's resume and potential just because of their past social status then we should only be thinking about leaving the MAC as a last resort.  I don't like the idea of stabbing your parteners for 50 years in the back anyway.

I think that in reality going to CUSA would accomplish nothing and only serve to put the long term future a risk.  That isn't any kind of step up in competition anymore and a lot less stable.  I don't like the idea of the Big East deciding that it can use us for numbers for a while before it ultimately falls apart again and leaves a bunch of programs behind.

Sure, the ACC or Big Ten would be a stable alley to high revenue and exposure but in all honesty the odds of that happening any time soon are tiny at best.  We would need to build ourselves up substantially before they would even look at us.

We should be worried about improving ourselves as a member of the MAC because if for nothing other than that is where we are likely to be for the foreseeable future.


I agree with this, to a point. I've dreamed and wondered plenty about leaving the MAC, but we need to build a consistently successful program to get out of the MAC.

That being said, I am in favor of leaving the MAC. We shouldn't have to rely on OTHER teams' success to make us a successful program, which is what staying in the MAC affords us. Any pollster in the country would agree that a 6-6 Big 10 team has a stronger SOS than an 8-4 MAC team, and RPIs in our league are traditionally abysmal. Everyone here who is in favor of staying in the MAC repeatedly pulls out the "cut out the bottom feeders of the MAC" card, like we have any control over that. Just because we want our SOS and RPI to be better doesn't mean we can just kick out EMU or CMU or whoever. I think beating up on the MAC for the next 2-3 years and winning at least 2 conference championships would put us in a good position to get picked up by one of the AQ conferences. But like I said, we would have to be dominant. I think a more realistic figure would be 5-7 years.
JSF
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Posted: 9/28/2012 4:10 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
.  .  .  You guys are both out of your minds.  I understand Mizzou and Duke lost in the first round.  I also understand that between the 2 of them, they were a combined 57-12.  I don't care how they fared in the tournament, where anything can happen.  They both ran into underdogs who got hot at the right time.  By no means, does this somehow magically mean Ohio was better than both of those squads.  Rational people understand this. . . .


Well, Ohio finished in the top 16 in the only poll that really matters and Duke and Missouri did not.  I'll take on-the-court or on-the-field results over mythical rankings any day of the week.  If you want to label it irrational and pin-headed you're more than welcome; it's a free country and you have a right to be wrong and to express those feelings.


SMALL SAMPLE SIZE SMALL SAMPLE SIZE SMALL SAMPLE SIZE

If you're using a one single-elimination tournament to make a determination in lieu of a body of work, you're factually wrong here, statistically.


This is not random sampling.  This is a statistical universe of one game at a time.  it's basically not probability statistics but more like an operational definition.  You win a game in the tournament and you advance.  You lose and you go home.  If you win you are better than the teams that lose.  If it was a double elimination tournament, things get more complex.  In Ohio's CWS appearance we beat USC, the eventual national champion.  So, even though we beat them head-to-head, they were a better than Ohio because that's the way the rules were written.


Except the NCAA tournament is not designed to produce the best team, merely the team that survives. There's too much randomness in a seven round single-elimination tournament to say the winner is the best team. Sometimes, the best team wins, but that's a happy coincidence. And the tournament has NEVER been intended to say the finalists are the two best teams, the semifinalists are the four best teams, etc. I love how much you don't get this, though. So Norfolk State would be better than us had we lost to Michigan?
Victory
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Posted: 9/28/2012 4:26 PM
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Nash'Cat wrote:expand_more
I have to say that if we were really all about not-judging a program's resume and potential just because of their past social status then we should only be thinking about leaving the MAC as a last resort.  I don't like the idea of stabbing your parteners for 50 years in the back anyway.

I think that in reality going to CUSA would accomplish nothing and only serve to put the long term future a risk.  That isn't any kind of step up in competition anymore and a lot less stable.  I don't like the idea of the Big East deciding that it can use us for numbers for a while before it ultimately falls apart again and leaves a bunch of programs behind.

Sure, the ACC or Big Ten would be a stable alley to high revenue and exposure but in all honesty the odds of that happening any time soon are tiny at best.  We would need to build ourselves up substantially before they would even look at us.

We should be worried about improving ourselves as a member of the MAC because if for nothing other than that is where we are likely to be for the foreseeable future.


I agree with this, to a point. I've dreamed and wondered plenty about leaving the MAC, but we need to build a consistently successful program to get out of the MAC.

That being said, I am in favor of leaving the MAC. We shouldn't have to rely on OTHER teams' success to make us a successful program, which is what staying in the MAC affords us. Any pollster in the country would agree that a 6-6 Big 10 team has a stronger SOS than an 8-4 MAC team, and RPIs in our league are traditionally abysmal. Everyone here who is in favor of staying in the MAC repeatedly pulls out the "cut out the bottom feeders of the MAC" card, like we have any control over that. Just because we want our SOS and RPI to be better doesn't mean we can just kick out EMU or CMU or whoever. I think beating up on the MAC for the next 2-3 years and winning at least 2 conference championships would put us in a good position to get picked up by one of the AQ conferences. But like I said, we would have to be dominant. I think a more realistic figure would be 5-7 years.


If we ever get to the point that the ACC wants us and the MAC has done little to improve with us then that would be in the we don't have much of an option but to leave category.  We would have to do so much to improve our reputation, facilities, etc. that who knows what the landscape will look like at that point.  IMO, a significantly better option than the MAC either so unlikely or so far off that I don't even want to waste time thinking about it.  All out thinking right now needs to be about improving the Athletic Department and the University as a member of the Mid-American Conference.
Robert Fox
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Posted: 9/28/2012 4:44 PM
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And capitalize on being a big fish in a small pond. If the MAC could produce 4 to 6 teams that were perennial powerhouses--usually beat up on other MAC teams, and did well out of conference--we could afford to keep the under performing MAC teams. As a conference, I think the MAC would still move up in prestige if we could pull that off for 5 to 7 years.
El Gato Roberto
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Posted: 9/28/2012 8:02 PM
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Let me begin by saying, I don't have against getting a BCS bid. Seriously, if we run the table and get that bid I will attend the game with as many of my best friends and relatives as possible (you heard me, medler).   But when I stop and really think about it - I mean really let my imagination get the best of me: I don't mind if Ohio gets overlooked by the BCS, at all.  Here's why...

What if we got overlooked by the BCS and ended up playing in a secondary bowl?  We could win that game... in fact we could take them to the woodshed. I mean really make a statement!  That would be great.   Because then we could then start TT's senior season with a game vs Louisville and a 15-game winning streak on the line.  Imagine winning THAT game!  I'm not sure, but that might be the longest winning-streak in the country by that time...I mean its possible, right?  This would certainly be a refreshing change from having the longest D1 losing streak!  been there - done that.

Ohio could actually gain MORE attention by being overlooked by the BCS.  You never know...this thing could go late-1960s Toledo and reach 30 straight! 

Just a different view of the opportunity in front of us.  Anyway it works out - undefeated or not - I am completely enjoying this ride!
mf279801
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Posted: 9/28/2012 9:10 PM
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El Gato Roberto wrote:expand_more
Let me begin by saying, I don't have against getting a BCS bid. Seriously, if we run the table and get that bid I will attend the game with as many of my best friends and relatives as possible (you heard me, medler).   But when I stop and really think about it - I mean really let my imagination get the best of me: I don't mind if Ohio gets overlooked by the BCS, at all.  Here's why...

What if we got overlooked by the BCS and ended up playing in a secondary bowl?  We could win that game... in fact we could take them to the woodshed. I mean really make a statement!  That would be great.   Because then we could then start TT's senior season with a game vs Louisville and a 15-game winning streak on the line.  Imagine winning THAT game!  I'm not sure, but that might be the longest winning-streak in the country by that time...I mean its possible, right?  This would certainly be a refreshing change from having the longest D1 losing streak!  been there - done that.

Ohio could actually gain MORE attention by being overlooked by the BCS.  You never know...this thing could go late-1960s Toledo and reach 30 straight! 

Just a different view of the opportunity in front of us.  Anyway it works out - undefeated or not - I am completely enjoying this ride!


That's a very thoughtful and well reasoned post. Now brace for incoming fire.
Victory
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Posted: 9/28/2012 9:32 PM
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El Gato Roberto wrote:expand_more
Let me begin by saying, I don't have against getting a BCS bid. Seriously, if we run the table and get that bid I will attend the game with as many of my best friends and relatives as possible (you heard me, medler).   But when I stop and really think about it - I mean really let my imagination get the best of me: I don't mind if Ohio gets overlooked by the BCS, at all.  Here's why...

What if we got overlooked by the BCS and ended up playing in a secondary bowl?  We could win that game... in fact we could take them to the woodshed. I mean really make a statement!  That would be great.   Because then we could then start TT's senior season with a game vs Louisville and a 15-game winning streak on the line.  Imagine winning THAT game!  I'm not sure, but that might be the longest winning-streak in the country by that time...I mean its possible, right?  This would certainly be a refreshing change from having the longest D1 losing streak!  been there - done that.

Ohio could actually gain MORE attention by being overlooked by the BCS.  You never know...this thing could go late-1960s Toledo and reach 30 straight! 

Just a different view of the opportunity in front of us.  Anyway it works out - undefeated or not - I am completely enjoying this ride!


Yeah, either way it could work out for us.  Funny thing how an unbeaten season, if it happens, could turn out well.  Who would have thought that! :)
L.C.
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Posted: 9/29/2012 1:04 PM
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El Gato Roberto wrote:expand_more
.... then we could then start TT's senior season with a game vs Louisville and a 15-game winning streak on the line.  Imagine winning THAT game!  I'm not sure, but that might be the longest winning-streak in the country by that time...I mean its possible, right?  This would certainly be a refreshing change from having the longest D1 losing streak!  been there - done that.

Ohio could actually gain MORE attention by being overlooked by the BCS.  You never know...this thing could go late-1960s Toledo and reach 30 straight!  ....

That would be a long time wearing the eyepatch, and staying out of the ditch, but you're right, that would be every bit as good.
Gallia Cat
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Posted: 9/29/2012 2:50 PM
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I am hoping Indiana can comeback on Northwestern and WVU hold on vs Baylor. It would help Ohio's march to the top 25!
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