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Topic: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?
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RPKirtland
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Posted: 4/4/2013 3:24 PM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
Yeah, adding schools like James Madison who averaged 22,783 to their games last year would bring down the reputation if the MAC.


But its another relatively unknown school in the middle of nowhere (I worked in that area for awhile) with a mediocre 1AA team.  They did beat VT two years ago, but went on to a sparkling 6-5 record that year.  Like Temps, its one of those schools that four years later 3/4 of Ohio students wouldn't know (1) that they were even in the MAC and (2) where the hell JMU is.  Even in the state of VA, when it comes to name recognition or following they're probably fifth at best (out of 10 D1 schools) in football behind VT, UVA, Richmond and maybe ODU.  I would much rather see the MAC go after 1A schools with some name recognition, like Terd or Army (the Cadets didn't like CUSA a few years ago because of how spread out the conference was and said they weren't interested in a BCS conference), or 1AA schools that students and most alumni would recognize. 


I know I'm digging this quote out of the depths of this thread, but hold on. Staunton, VA native here. It's always been VT, UVA, JMU, ODU, Radford here. I've been calling for JMU to go to the MAC for year or two now. Especially since Bridgeforth is being expanded. It's going to be a formidable stadium when all is said and done. Also played a state championship in it!

EDIT: Also, Liberty? What the hell? I can't stand that "college". Personal vendetta.
Last Edited: 4/4/2013 3:27:42 PM by RPKirtland
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Posted: 4/6/2013 10:26 AM
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RPKirtland wrote:expand_more
Yeah, adding schools like James Madison who averaged 22,783 to their games last year would bring down the reputation if the MAC.


But its another relatively unknown school in the middle of nowhere (I worked in that area for awhile) with a mediocre 1AA team.  They did beat VT two years ago, but went on to a sparkling 6-5 record that year.  Like Temps, its one of those schools that four years later 3/4 of Ohio students wouldn't know (1) that they were even in the MAC and (2) where the hell JMU is.  Even in the state of VA, when it comes to name recognition or following they're probably fifth at best (out of 10 D1 schools) in football behind VT, UVA, Richmond and maybe ODU.  I would much rather see the MAC go after 1A schools with some name recognition, like Terd or Army (the Cadets didn't like CUSA a few years ago because of how spread out the conference was and said they weren't interested in a BCS conference), or 1AA schools that students and most alumni would recognize. 


I know I'm digging this quote out of the depths of this thread, but hold on. Staunton, VA native here. It's always been VT, UVA, JMU, ODU, Radford here. I've been calling for JMU to go to the MAC for year or two now. Especially since Bridgeforth is being expanded. It's going to be a formidable stadium when all is said and done. Also played a state championship in it!

EDIT: Also, Liberty? What the hell? I can't stand that "college". Personal vendetta.


I worked at a radio station in Staunton for a time so I know where you're coming from.  But outside the Valley, JMU is pretty far down on the list for most people.  Richmond and lately ODU are much more well known.  And being a Southern school, they're more likely to stoke up rivalries with teams from the South than with us Yankees.  (When I was there, I was surprised to hear a woman say "You can't believe him.  He's just a Yankee."  And I think there are some people there who still resent what Sheridan did to the Valley during The War Between the States.)

And I agree with you about Liberty, not so much for the school but its founder.
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Posted: 4/6/2013 5:10 PM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
I worked at a radio station in Staunton for a time so I know where you're coming from.  But outside the Valley, JMU is pretty far down on the list for most people.  Richmond and lately ODU are much more well known.  And being a Southern school, they're more likely to stoke up rivalries with teams from the South than with us Yankees.  (When I was there, I was surprised to hear a woman say "You can't believe him.  He's just a Yankee."  And I think there are some people there who still resent what Sheridan did to the Valley during The War Between the States.) . . .


Hmm . . . the War of the Rebellion to us Yankees!  Little Phil did exactly what Grant wanted him to do.  Now, as Grant said in accepting the presidential nomination of his party: "Let Us Have Peace."
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Posted: 4/6/2013 5:20 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
I worked at a radio station in Staunton for a time so I know where you're coming from.  But outside the Valley, JMU is pretty far down on the list for most people.  Richmond and lately ODU are much more well known.  And being a Southern school, they're more likely to stoke up rivalries with teams from the South than with us Yankees.  (When I was there, I was surprised to hear a woman say "You can't believe him.  He's just a Yankee."  And I think there are some people there who still resent what Sheridan did to the Valley during The War Between the States.) . . .


Hmm . . . the War of the Rebellion to us Yankees!  Little Phil did exactly what Grant wanted him to do.  Now, as Grant said in accepting the presidential nomination of his party: "Let Us Have Peace."


I have a friend from Carolina who calls it The War for Southern Independence or The Recent Unpleasantness.  Next he's up this way I plan to take him to the Sherman House.
Last Edited: 4/6/2013 5:22:00 PM by Pataskala
RPKirtland
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Posted: 4/6/2013 6:52 PM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
I worked at a radio station in Staunton for a time so I know where you're coming from.  But outside the Valley, JMU is pretty far down on the list for most people.  Richmond and lately ODU are much more well known.  And being a Southern school, they're more likely to stoke up rivalries with teams from the South than with us Yankees.  (When I was there, I was surprised to hear a woman say "You can't believe him.  He's just a Yankee."  And I think there are some people there who still resent what Sheridan did to the Valley during The War Between the States.) . . .


Hmm . . . the War of the Rebellion to us Yankees!  Little Phil did exactly what Grant wanted him to do.  Now, as Grant said in accepting the presidential nomination of his party: "Let Us Have Peace."


I have a friend from Carolina who calls it The War for Southern Independence or The Recent Unpleasantness.  Next he's up this way I plan to take him to the Sherman House.


In high school, two years ago, I was taught that it was the "War of Northern Aggression." Not even kidding. I'm a little glad I go to school up here now.
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Posted: 4/6/2013 8:28 PM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
I have a friend from Carolina who calls it The War for Southern Independence or The Recent Unpleasantness.  Next he's up this way I plan to take him to the Sherman House.


Good call!
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Posted: 4/7/2013 8:43 AM
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As for the comments about Ohio students not knowing about a school like Temple or JMU, it kind of make me feel that maybe the students are a little too provincial . Lets see, can we say a directional school that draws(?) 3900 or so to games is preferable to someone like Temple or JMU who average over 22000 is a more worthy opponent?
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Posted: 4/7/2013 9:41 AM
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colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
As for the comments about Ohio students not knowing about a school like Temple or JMU, it kind of make me feel that maybe the students are a little too provincial . Lets see, can we say a directional school that draws(?) 3900 or so to games is preferable to someone like Temple or JMU who average over 22000 is a more worthy opponent?

I don't think it's preference as much as it's familiarity, which is a problem that's likely to be there with any football-only MAC school.  We play all the all-sports MAC schools at least once a year in b-ball and most other sports, except football.  Kids (and a lot of alumni) hear the names more than just once a year, so they recognize them.  As I recall, in the four or five years Temps was in the MAC we played them only twice in b-ball, both times in Dec when school wasn't in session.  I'd much rather have all-sports expansion, but if we can't have that I'd rather have a team that most people have some familiarity with.  UMass is one, although I think if you'd ask most people where UMass is located, Amherst wouldn't be the answer; I thought they were in Springfield.  Army would be another.
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Posted: 4/9/2013 4:35 AM
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OrlandoCat wrote:expand_more
Maryland, I sorta agree with you. Sun Belt additions are probably better than Buffalo and UMASS, time will tell. Remember EMU was one of those additions way back when. I believe CMU may have won a Small College Championship just prior to entering the MAC. But none of the other additions to the bottom (Ball St and Akron) have consistently added much to the MAC over the years (at least in football).


Buffalo 1 MAC TITLE, OHIO - 0


Sigh, because MAC titles matter in the grand scheme...

But for what it's worth, you're wrong.

Buffalo - 1 MAC title
Ohio - 5 MAC titles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-American_Conference


1968 was the last MAC title.  

In other news, ohio to cusa woule be awesome. I woukd imagine it woukd come down to OU and Marshall every year for east division champion and OU would bring a solid all around program to cusa.  I woukd much rather see you rather than Arkansas state or ull as rumored recentky to get to 16 teams. However, we are short 2 western teams so nmsu may be on the radar
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Posted: 4/9/2013 1:42 PM
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Its not that Ohio is too good for CUSA, its that CUSA isn't good enough for Ohio.
goherd25
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Posted: 4/9/2013 6:19 PM
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thats just silly. You would get a ton more revenue from tv, double the bowl tie ins and eve with the defections, play a competitive and equal, if not better, schedule and competition.

I just wonder why the powers that be haven't sent you an invite, maybe market size?
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Posted: 4/9/2013 8:38 PM
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goherd25 wrote:expand_more
You would get a ton more revenue from tv


But we would never actually get to watch our team on TV. Neither would recruits. #MACtion.


goherd25 wrote:expand_more
double the bowl tie ins


This really isn't an issue. We've been able to get bowl invites even when not qualifying for the MAC's auto bids.



goherd25 wrote:expand_more
eve with the defections, play a competitive and equal, if not better, schedule and competition


A schedule that most of our fan base wouldn't be able to travel to see. That's not as huge an issue if you're on TV, but like I said up top, CUSA = no more TV.



goherd25 wrote:expand_more
I just wonder why the powers that be haven't sent you an invite, maybe market size?


I'd say facilities are probably a bigger deal than market size. An argument can be made that we're part of the Columbus media market, and if we got out of the MAC we'd probably get more love in NE Ohio too. The Convo may be a Big East-caliber basketball arena, but we would have to add probably 10,000 seats to Peden to be a legit contender.

I see why it made sense for Marshall to jump, but it just isn't the same for Ohio. At least, not alone. Make it a package deal with 3 other MAC schools, and I'd think about it. Otherwise, I'd rather focus energies on making the MAC better.
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Posted: 4/10/2013 12:00 AM
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I have not had an issue watching marshall on tv. And now with fox sports 1 coming it is going to be much better than it was (all games will be on what was the speed channel). 

And hardly any weeknight games which is good for fans. 

While you would have to travel a bit more, OU doesnt travel well fan wise as it is in my experience (please enlighten me if I am wrong) I bet there were 1000 or so in huntington last year,  we took about 6 or 7000 to athens. 

Wk, and MU are obviously close. Mtsu is drivable as well, plus you can schedule good mac schools ooc. 

I am not sure of the markets but that seems to be the big deal to conferences now days. I get that peden is smaller but it is a nice and unique stadium and setting. Plus,  your fan avg attendance would be somewhere in the middle of cusa, some of the incoming schools, ODU, have around 22000 seats or so. 

I am excited to visit peden again, had a good time there a couole years ago.
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Posted: 4/10/2013 12:51 AM
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There were a lot more Ohio fans in Huntington the last few times Ohio has played there than you might think.  That's because a lot of Ohio fans bought tickets in other parts of the stadium from the Marshall ticket office, and, therefore, they did not sit in the visitors' section.  This is to some extent a reflection on how screwed up our ticket office can be sometimes. 
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Posted: 4/10/2013 12:56 AM
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herd fans never were good at math.

first you try to make the claim that out of 33K at the 2012 game only 1K were Ohio fans, and then claim that 7K of the 24K at the 2011 game were Herd fans.

both of those assertions are ludicrous and honest Herd fans know it.  
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Posted: 4/10/2013 3:37 AM
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I would like to take a moment to address my opponents arguments.

-I have not had an issue watching marshall on tv.

Fox Sports BFE holds the broadcasting rights.

-And hardly any weeknight games which is good for fans. 

Probably true. However, what's good for the program can be argued to be good for the fans. Midweek = national TV = money = fan experience improved.

-While you would have to travel a bit more, OU doesnt travel well fan wise as it is in my experience (please enlighten me if I am wrong)

You're wrong. Also, use this: '

-I bet there were 1000 or so in huntington last year,  

I'd like some of those drugs you're taking.

-we took about 6 or 7000 to athens. 

I bet it's something hard. Heroin? Crack? Meth?
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Posted: 4/10/2013 7:46 AM
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RPKirtland wrote:expand_more
I would like to take a moment to address my opponents arguments.

-I have not had an issue watching marshall on tv.

Fox Sports BFE holds the broadcasting rights.

-And hardly any weeknight games which is good for fans.

Probably true. However, what's good for the program can be argued to be good for the fans. Midweek = national TV = money = fan experience improved.

-While you would have to travel a bit more, OU doesnt travel well fan wise as it is in my experience (please enlighten me if I am wrong)

You're wrong. Also, use this: '

-I bet there were 1000 or so in huntington last year,

I'd like some of those drugs you're taking.

-we took about 6 or 7000 to athens.

I bet it's something hard. Heroin? Crack? Meth?
. Sorry to say, but Ohio doesn't travel well. We did ok at Marshall, but except for games at Nirthwestern a few years back and to some degre Penn State last year , our fan support at games I've been to stinks. I'm guessing that Ohio fans at the last 8-10 away games I've attended other than the above 2 games was in the 200-500 range and that ain't good. When you're selling less than 500 tickets to a bowl game, any bowl game, that's bad. And as for the midweek games, I don't get the money thing here. Please remind me again about how much money the teams in the MAC make for playing in empty stadiums.
Last Edited: 4/10/2013 7:58:50 AM by colobobcat66
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Posted: 4/10/2013 6:13 PM
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RPKirtland wrote:expand_more
I would like to take a moment to address my opponents arguments.

-I have not had an issue watching marshall on tv.

Fox Sports BFE holds the broadcasting rights.

-And hardly any weeknight games which is good for fans. 

Probably true. However, what's good for the program can be argued to be good for the fans. Midweek = national TV = money = fan experience improved.

-While you would have to travel a bit more, OU doesnt travel well fan wise as it is in my experience (please enlighten me if I am wrong)

You're wrong. Also, use this: '

-I bet there were 1000 or so in huntington last year,  

I'd like some of those drugs you're taking.

-we took about 6 or 7000 to athens. 

I bet it's something hard. Heroin? Crack? Meth?


Let me sum it up for you. You are wrong. 

See how that works when someone says you are wrong with no evidence or support for their claim? MU sold out the visiting bleachers and were very thick in the main stands due to your ticket promotion. 6k is being conservative for our travel to athens. Heck, we took about 12k to a crap bowk vs fiu a couple years ago in the middle of the week.

Also, hate to burst a bubble here, but midweek games offer 0 extra money. You get the agreed upon money from your tv contract that is divided among the league. The last year in the MAC, marshall received $32,000 in tv revenue. We received 1.17 MILLION last year. And forget the travel cost crap, we are coming ou well ahead and even msde an extra 250k in profit due to bowl set up and the conference subsidizing travel. Did OU make money from the bowl or lose money? 

OU to cusa would be good for ohio, maybe bad for a few fans that travel to all games but thats very few. Thanks to new cusa and our ooc scheduling,  I have been able to attend 8 to 10 mu games a year and watch others on tv. This year I will be attending 9 games for sure and possibky make a trip to florida as well. 
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Posted: 4/10/2013 6:22 PM
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C Money wrote:expand_more
You would get a ton more revenue from tv


But we would never actually get to watch our team on TV. Neither would recruits. #MACtion.


double the bowl tie ins


This really isn't an issue. We've been able to get bowl invites even when not qualifying for the MAC's auto bids.


Also, addressing the recruiting problem in cusa. Pretty sure Marshall had the best non bcs class at 48 in the country playing on our tv contract and most cusa schools out recruit mac schools every year (note that coaching is important here, recruits alone dont matter as much as who coaches them). so I would assert that this statement that it would hurt recruiting to have cusa's tv package is just conjecture or bias.

And if you dont have a bowl tie in or a secondary tie in, yhen you dont get a bowl in he mac. You then rely on other conferences teams not being bowl eligible to have a shot. The MAC has 3 tie ins I am aware of, and a couple secondary tie ins. Cusa has 6 guaranteed and a secondary or two as well.
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Posted: 4/10/2013 7:47 PM
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goherd25 wrote:expand_more
Also, addressing the recruiting problem in cusa. Pretty sure Marshall had the best non bcs class at 48 in the country playing on our tv contract and most cusa schools out recruit mac schools every year (note that coaching is important here, recruits alone dont matter as much as who coaches them). so I would assert that this statement that it would hurt recruiting to have cusa's tv package is just conjecture or bias.


Apples and oranges, as Ohio is not Marshall. For the most part, we aren't going after the same players in the same areas. Our recruiting has greatly improved in recent years, and it is due in a large part to increased TV (and other media) exposure. I haven't researched it, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but my guess is that Ohio was on more TV sets nationally last year more than Marshall has been the past 3 years. Not only does that help Ohio recruit, it also helps establish Ohio as a brand. Witness the 60% increase in applications to the university since 2011.

goherd25 wrote:expand_more
And if you dont have a bowl tie in or a secondary tie in, yhen you dont get a bowl in he mac. You then rely on other conferences teams not being bowl eligible to have a shot. The MAC has 3 tie ins I am aware of, and a couple secondary tie ins. Cusa has 6 guaranteed and a secondary or two as well.


"Guaranteed" slots are not guaranteed. You still have to have enough teams fill the slots. Other conferences are not able to do that, which is why the MAC has been able to fill the void. When Marshall was in the MAC, this was a legitimate concern, because there was one bowl slot and not nearly as many opportunities to slide into other conference's bowl tie-ins. It's different today.
Last Edited: 4/10/2013 7:47:36 PM by C Money
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Posted: 4/11/2013 3:39 AM
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goherd25 wrote:expand_more
See how that works when someone says you are wrong with no evidence or support for their claim? MU sold out the visiting bleachers and were very thick in the main stands due to your ticket promotion. 6k is being conservative for our travel to athens. Heck, we took about 12k to a crap bowk vs fiu a couple years ago in the middle of the week.


if you think more than 1 out of every 4 people in the stands were Marshall fans then you are a complete moron. you want evidence? use your eyes and ears and view the video proof. quoting an attendance estimate for some bowl game is not proof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM39lYg5yes
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Posted: 4/11/2013 10:11 AM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
which of the 5 Little Sisters of the Poor conferences has actually improved because of realignment?

The Big Least? of course not, they used to be in the big leagues and got bumped down to the kiddie table. Lost teams to BCS schools and replaced them with CUSA teams. DOWNGRADE.

CUSA?Nope.  Lost teams to BE and replaced them with Sun Belt teams and FCS call ups. DOWNGRADE.

Sun Belt? Nope. Lost teams to CUSA and replaced them with WAC deadwood and FCS call ups. DOWNGRADE.

those 3 conferences have clearly degraded. that leaves the MWC and the MAC. MWC lost 3 good schools (BYU, TCU, Utah) and replaced them with the best remaing WAC schools (SJSU, USU). Slight downgrade, but then when you add in Boise State's return overall MWC stayed about even.

The MAC lost Temple and added UMass. A downgrade, but a slight one.


Overall, by not redecorating Grandma's House the MAC has mantained its property value while the other houses in the neighborhood were foreclosed on after the owners made bad upgrade choices hoping to flip it. The MAC should in no way add any other FCS school under any circumstances. 

The only teams the MAC should ever consider adding are the best of the rest that are in our region. In no order, those would be- UC, UConn, Temple, Marshall, Army/Navy. You don't have to point out that none of those schools would want to join the MAC, I get it. My point is, only add programs that would be a step up for the MAC, not a step up for the program. Otherwise, stand pat and let everyone else further degrade themselves.


Agree. I'm not a big fan of the MAC adding teams just because everyone else is doing it. Adding the right team would be great, but let's make sure it is the right team.

While the conference is far from perfect (see my rant about Miami/Halloween scheduling), we've played on ABC on Saturday, had a number of ESPN games and a growing number of bowl bids, including a bid in the Orange Bowl (anomoly or not, it happened). 

And as for others that think we should leave the MAC, realistically in what other conference could Ohio succeed (in terms of on-field wins/revenue) and provide more opportunities than what I just outlined above?
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Posted: 4/11/2013 3:00 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
See how that works when someone says you are wrong with no evidence or support for their claim? MU sold out the visiting bleachers and were very thick in the main stands due to your ticket promotion. 6k is being conservative for our travel to athens. Heck, we took about 12k to a crap bowk vs fiu a couple years ago in the middle of the week.


if you think more than 1 out of every 4 people in the stands were Marshall fans then you are a complete moron. you want evidence? use your eyes and ears and view the video proof. quoting an attendance estimate for some bowl game is not proof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM39lYg5yes


At 1:00 you can see most of the center section on the hone side is kelly green and the whole visiting section! Lol. I wish I had some hard numbers somewhere to cite but I assure you I was on the 50 yard line and everyone in that section nearly was MU, in addition to the end zone visitors seats. 5-6k is very conservative indeed. Keep in mind that the marshall green and ohio green are pretty close and kelly just come back. At least a third of our fans still have on hunter green. In either case, OU to cusa would benefit OU and cusa. solid program to cusa,  more money to Ohio. 
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Posted: 4/11/2013 9:26 PM
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WE'RE. NOT. INTERESTED.
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Posted: 4/11/2013 10:33 PM
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Will everyone please stop feeding the troll...
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